Pelchen - Man Of Honour?

[len_jet]

Rang on a second. Everyone that is saying the deal should have been done early in the week are probably the same ones that said that we should have just take the Syndey 3rd round pick. In the end we where offered a 2nd and 4th (we declined the 4th as we won't be using it).

JMTC
Molly

Early in the week Hawthorn were asking for a round 1 pick for Everitt... How the hell that bloke who was hawthorns back up ruckman this year was valued by pelchen to be worth a round 1 pick is beyond me! Two years everitt is gone if injury doesnt get the better of him in the mean time yet thornton still has 8-10 years left in him, aged at 22 with 91 games under his belt. With a little more support down back, say throw him into a backline with dawson, jacobs, roughead etc he would of been a valuable cog in hawthorns backline. BUT pelchens over inflated ego got the better of him and instead of offering up pick 6 he wanted to throw two cheap second rounders at carlton, meh pathetic and the deal got what is deserved. Thornton is now signed for three years and I hope he bites the DAWKS on the butt!

 

[OneEyedHawk]

Funny how much changes in 12 months!
This stock standard FB is still better than anything you've got. Its funny stuff that a Kp that can play in one of the 2 key defensive posts is worth 24 and 33. Fanstasy stuff im afraid. Try again whorks!

Start a poll on it then, rswipe. Most in the media and on these boards thought 2x 2nd Rounders in such a strong draft was ample compensation for Thornton.

 

[Bay Pie]

Start a poll on it then, rswipe. Most in the media and on these boards thought 2x 2nd Rounders in such a strong draft was ample compensation for Thornton.

As an impartial observer, I agree that the picks offered were probably fair.

But the fact thatn Pelchen stuffed around for so long he didn't have time to go back with a different offer say a player and the lower of the 2 2nd round picks.

Have fun Hawks trying to acquire a player next year in the trade period.

Pelchen = Poo

 

[len_jet]

Start a poll on it then, rswipe. Most in the media and on these boards thought 2x 2nd Rounders in such a strong draft was ample compensation for Thornton.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277084 in the name of science!

 

[Audemars Piguet]

He has proven himself to have zero integrity and of being a fraud. He makes offers with picks he doesn't have. Gets in the public forum and mocks others when he has no grounds to.

And regardless of what others think of Thronton, he is a 22 y.o KP defender who is still yet to produce his best footy and probably has 8-10 years service ahead of him which will take him to around 200-250 AFL games (barring injury).

If such a player is only worth 2 speculative 2nd round picks then you're all as dumb as Pelchen. If you think he is so worthless then be glad he is not at your club

Pelchen tried to rort us like they did the roos last year with Hay and it didn't work. Carlton listened to that pathetic offer and rightly chose to ignore it. The whorks were never serious and if they were hoping to get him in the PSD for nothing, well you failed there too Pelchen!

Well said. Pelchen is a liar and a fruad. He has been worked out big time, no doubt about it.

 

[Go_Blues!]

There is a branch of mathematics called game theory which suggests that Pelchen's strategy (called a dominant strategy) can never win if the other player in the game (auction, gambling, trading etc) knows his strategy (and now everyone in the AFL knows Pelchen's strategy.

Guys like WB, WC and Sydney - all of whom are excellent traders are so because they adopt a strategic equilibrium strategy which focuses on ensuring everyone achieves their own aims and is a necessary condition for a trade to complete.

Of course, trading may not be as simple as this, since different outcomes have different values for different teams (Thorton is probably worth more to Carlton than many other teams) but is still a slightly different way of looking at the trading process and how useful Pelchen is likely to be in the future.

 

[ken tucky]

logic not a strong point for some of you on here? IF you honestly think Pelchen is the sole decision maker in this entire trading process then you have no idea...a CLUB has strategies that are decided by the board, coaching staff and football department and its all about BUSINESS and getting whats best for YOUR club and playing bluffs and lies is unfortunately all part of the process, you win some and you lose some!
Pelchen has a history of success, called a Premiership in 2004 which was built by the way from ground up including drafting and trading strategies that WORKED! Those stone throwers sit back and wait for 2007 results to see who has the last laugh....

 

[scottwade]

There is a branch of mathematics called game theory which suggests that Pelchen's strategy (called a dominant strategy) can never win if the other player in the game (auction, gambling, trading etc) knows his strategy (and now everyone in the AFL knows Pelchen's strategy.

Guys like WB, WC and Sydney - all of whom are excellent traders are so because they adopt a strategic equilibrium strategy which focuses on ensuring everyone achieves their own aims and is a necessary condition for a trade to complete.

Of course, trading may not be as simple as this, since different outcomes have different values for different teams (Thorton is probably worth more to Carlton than many other teams) but is still a slightly different way of looking at the trading process and how useful Pelchen is likely to be in the future.

Very interesting, cheers.

 

[Here It Is]

Pelchen = man with head up his arse and egg on his face.

You picked the wrong club to try and **** over, dimwit.

Welcome Spida.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

Pelchen = man with head up his arse and egg on his face.

You picked the wrong club to try and **** over, dimwit.

Welcome Spida.

err...yeah

We got a 2nd Round pick for Spida, a result that always seemed the most likely outcome, and that most agree was a fair outcome. Yeah, you really showed us!

 

[Mr Lizard]

D'oh! 2nd round pick for a 32 year old who had walked out on the club.

Pelchen!!!!! (Newman/Seinfeld style)


Back to the old drawing board, Hawks.......

 

[Bay Pie]

err...yeah

We got a 2nd Round pick for Spida, a result that always seemed the most likely outcome, and that most agree was a fair outcome. Yeah, you really showed us!

But it took you 3 days to realise Sydney wasn't going to give you Vasoline and bend over for you.

Pelchen = excretion

 

[Motown]

Of course, trading may not be as simple as this, since different outcomes have different values for different teams (Thorton is probably worth more to Carlton than many other teams) but is still a slightly different way of looking at the trading process and how useful Pelchen is likely to be in the future.

This would probably valid if we were talking about programs or robots, but human beings tend to muddy things a bit by being capable of change and having a capacity to learn. I don't know Pelchin beyond his record, but I think it would be a bit presumptuous to operate on an assumption of "Person X always does Y". That's how one gets sucker-punched.

Guys like WB, WC and Sydney - all of whom are excellent traders are so because they adopt a strategic equilibrium strategy which focuses on ensuring everyone achieves their own aims and is a necessary condition for a trade to complete.

These guys had "excellent" trade periods in large part because they had positions of strength and had exceedingly little at risk. What was the worst case outcome? Sydney with no Everitt - no biggie. Bulldogs - had Aker handed to them on a plate. Eagles - keep/lose McDougall...meh. Negotiations tend to be much more comfortable in those circumstances and one can accomodate/hold middle ground.

Carlton had a great outcomes from their trade period by holding their nerve under fair pressure. There was no reasonable middle ground here, however. Both clubs wanted Thornton and only one could have him, quite distinct from the examples above.

 

[Crow-mo]

Let me touch on somethings here:
1) If Pelchen goes in to a trade period with the idea of engineering a "Win-Win" trade, I want him sacked on the spot. He should go in with the sole idea of doing the best for the Hawks. If the trade works out as win-win (e.g. Thompson deal to the Roos), good.

well you're either not very old or you work behind a checkout, because you have no idea how the real world works.

2) From my understanding from everything reported, the Everitt deal had components that only made sense if the Thorton deal went through. Thats why it went so late. What do I mean? If you list to the press conference with Pelchen after the end of the trade period on Friday, he mentioned that the Swans had also offered a 4th round pick that Hawthorn chose not to take. My reading of this is that if Hawtorn had traded those two 2nd round draft picks for Thorton (i.e. 2 players for 1) they would have wanted the extra draft pick. Seeing the trade never went through for Bad Santa, then no need for the 4th round pick.

blah blah blah. Pelchen achieved the same result *****ing everyone off, as he could have by not burning bridges. that is, in anyone's language, a bad thing. If you're going to go for the throat, you better come back with the goods.

3) Must remember that after the Swans said they wouldn't budge on a third round pick, the Hawks got to at least a 2nd and 4th, a bit of a difference.

[/QUOTE]

so you got to a 2nd and 4th, but decided to take only a 2nd?
there's one born everyday.

 

[Tigerbob]

D'oh! 2nd round pick for a 32 year old who had walked out on the club.

Pelchen!!!!! (Newman/Seinfeld style)


Back to the old drawing board, Hawks.......

But that was the offer on day one of trade week!!!

Could of left you guys with a lot longer time getting on with other trades and opportunities.

Look, he took a moral stand and I agree with him, he is duty bond to try and get the best deal for the Hawthorn Football Club, but it has to be fair and reasonable in both instances, and if he honestly thought that a successful club like Sydney were going to give you pick 15, he mustn't be paying attention!

Yes Peter Spider Everitt is a 32 year old - but what is a second round draft choice worth compared with Premiership success, because bookmark this if you shall, Sydney will win the 2007 Premiership.

 

[inyourcool]

Start a poll on it then, rswipe. Most in the media and on these boards thought 2x 2nd Rounders in such a strong draft was ample compensation for Thornton.

No Worries C@(k-breath! like i care what a poll on BF will show me!!
Its not like we were trying to get rid of him. You guys wanted him. You offered him the big bucks and hoped to bamboozle everyone with this laughable strategy and hope that he would just walk into the PSD to you guys! LOL!!!

Did you forget that we had 1st pick in the PSD!! hahaha

You wanted him and approached the whole deal like amateurs, never making a serious bid. Pick 24 & 33 is rubbish. Maybe OK for a player a club is trying to get rid off but not a required KP defender.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Touche' Adrenaline.

Pelchen lacks integrity and by association so does Hawthorn.

The Hawthorn Football Club has lost a great deal of respect, these last few years under Pelchen's rule. The Hawthorn name has been tarnished , by an ego, who's scale and proportion , is not welcome in the greater AFL community.

For future traders with the Hawthorn Football Club whilst Pelchen is in charge, well all I can say is:

" Caveat Emptor"

I started in French.

Summarised in Latin.

I will finish in Australian : Pelchen is an ar$hole.

Monocle your wrong, just doin the best he can and for every other dirty deal done by other AFL traders then all clubs have mongrels in em but the Hawks are going to belt a few more sides next year without spida .Good luck to thornton but we will go forward without him with no worries and if you don,t try well your as weak as sarpadiddly dork so lets go

 

[JoondalupJ]

But that was the offer on day one of trade week!!!

Could of left you guys with a lot longer time getting on with other trades and opportunities.

Look, he took a moral stand and I agree with him, he is duty bond to try and get the best deal for the Hawthorn Football Club, but it has to be fair and reasonable in both instances, and if he honestly thought that a successful club like Sydney were going to give you pick 15, he mustn't be paying attention!

Yes Peter Spider Everitt is a 32 year old - but what is a second round draft choice worth compared with Premiership success, because bookmark this if you shall, Sydney will win the 2007 Premiership.

you are really dreamin Tiger bob

 

[Mr Lizard]

But that was the offer on day one of trade week!!! Could of left you guys with a lot longer time getting on with other trades and opportunities.




Sydney will win the 2007 Premiership.

I have said in another thread I think Spider will have a good year next year. It might be he is the 'missing link' so to speak for Sydney.
Good on 'em, they got their man.

As far as I know, the second round pick was only offered on the second day. And we held out for more. Why?
We wanted our man, and didn't think Carlton would accept picks 24 and 33 for him.


We didn't want other trades and opportunities.
We wanted Thornton - didn't get him, oh well nothing lost
We wanted something for Spider - which we got.

Not our greatest trade period, not our worst.



Pelchen = bumpooweefart

 

[Motown]

so you got to a 2nd and 4th, but decided to take only a 2nd?
there's one born everyday.

Hypothetically, would there be a point if we weren't planning to use the 4th? Or do we delist someone we were originally planning to keep just to use it?

 

[Adrenaline]

Smart clubs draft, trade and offer contracts for what they believe a player will be, not what he is.

Given Thornton is only 22, played in a bottom side, having the ball enter the defensive 50 at warp speed and more times than most defenders would have dealt with in the past 4 years, I believe he will continue to improve of the next 2 or 3 years to being one of the better KPP in the AFL

For Hawthorn, that got market worth, I believe spida is only worth at best a mid to late 2nd round pick given he has limited time left in the AFL and going to a club that could still challenge a premiership in the next 2 years.

I will say it again, Pelchen had this deal on the table by at least Wednesday, could have sealed the deal and then tried to extract Thornton by using creativity rather than offerring picks that they never had.

Bluff will only work a couple of times when you deal with the same people. Hawthorn did well last year and lets say broke even this year. Move him on as the tide has turned.

 

[westbrom]

Hypothetically, would there be a point if we weren't planning to use the 4th? Or do we delist someone we were originally planning to keep just to use it?

Tell me do you think pick 66 (4th round) was going to be offered to sweeten the Thornton deal? If so you are kidding yourself....

Pelchen: "How about picks 24 & 33 for Thornton"
Carlton: "Go **** yourself"
Pelchen: "How about picks 24, 33 & 66?"
Carlton: "Deal"

 

[taurus]

Let me touch on somethings here:
1) If Pelchen goes in to a trade period with the idea of engineering a "Win-Win" trade, I want him sacked on the spot. He should go in with the sole idea of doing the best for the Hawks. If the trade works out as win-win (e.g. Thompson deal to the Roos), good.

BLAH, BLAH

Molly

Let me guess. No one traded cards with you when you are in primary right??

 

[JoeyA]

Brent Thornton - Man Of Honour?

 

[mollyfud]

Let me guess. No one traded cards with you when you are in primary right??

This isn't cards, its Footy!

Molly