List Mgmt. Plan B (No Cam) Fwds: Trade? Draft? Mature Aged Recruit?

[Bucking Bronco]

Taberner, Apeness, Hurley, Hannath, Z.Clarke, Griffin, Sandilands, T.Smith, A.Pearce. It's over to them to improve their capacity as forwards.

That's what we say at the end of every trade/ draft period. You can't cook chicken soup with chicken feathers. None of those guys have the capacity to fulfil the role next year. None of those guys apart from Taberner and potentially Apeness even have the capacity to play forward. Pearce can't kick and would end up kicking 10.30 if he spent the whole season up forward.

We are going to be in for a dour year next year if Pav retires and will be very lucky to make the top 8. As a result we will have our first top 10 pick since '09 and hopefully will be able to secure a key-forward through the draft or on-trade the pick for McCarthy. Only problem on the draft front is that next years draft is supposedly weak on key-forwards and the top forward prospect at the moment is an off limits academy player for GWS.

Somewhat of a silver lining is that Hooker has shown that he can play up forward, and I am sure that we will be signing him next year as a free agent. It will be a tough season next year, but hopefully we can start putting the pieces in place from 2017 onwards to be a legitimate chance to win a cup. We are never going to win one without a proper key-forward so we are going to need to bottom out to some degree eventually.

Morabito as a Forward? Can give the ball a roost, can mark, burst speed pretty good. Between him and Apeness, hopefully one set of knees will hold together.

Pie in the sky stuff. Tall does not equate to forward aptitude. He wouldn't have played as a forward for 8 years at least. No idea where he played before '09, but he is going to find the going difficult enough trying to come back after all his injures, let alone putting him in the hardest position on the ground, and one that he probably only has limited exposure in.

 

[Tonga Bob]

You think you guys will pick up Mason Shaw?

I hope we do. Good Souths boy is Mason, can't have enough of them in your team.

 

[JayPea14]

I hope we do. Good Souths boy is Mason, can't have enough of them in your team.

Thought he was a talent when watching him in the SANFL here unfortunately his body doesn't seem to hold up..would love to see him get another crack and hope his body gives him the opportunity.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Let's hope there is someone readymade we can grab like Barlow or Spurr but a forward. We have had more luck with the psd than other teams I think. We can only hope

 

[purplerunsdeep]

Grimley? Who else?

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Let's hope there is someone readymade we can grab like Barlow or Spurr but a forward. We have had more luck with the psd than other teams I think. We can only hope

I think we might be looking at that Mitch Brown kid with pick 35

 

[Kenny_01]

MIDFIELD

IN: Bennell, Weller, Langdon, Blakely
OUT: Fyfe, Suban, Mzungu, De Boer

FORWARD

IN: Fyfe
OUT: Pavlich

 

[dockerfemme]

Bring back Kepler???

 

[Chris25]

Grimley? Who else?

Just remember, Hawthorn delisted Grimley and picked up Fitzpatrick.

They thought someone who wasn't good enough to get a game at Melbourne, was better than the player they already had. How good could Grimley be?

 

[XXRL]

I know it's disappointing we missed out on McCarthy, but I think part of the solution is our forward ball movement.

Hawthorn and Western Bulldogs demonstrated this year that you don't necessarily need a dominant power forward to kick goals if you have quick and precise ball movement.

Clearly contested marking is important as one avenue to goal, and a kpf provides structure and straightens a team up, but it's not necessarily the be-all and end-all.

In 2016, I hope to see quicker and more precise ball movement (I think Harley will really help) and continued development of Tabs, A. Pearce, Apeness, Zac Clarke.

I'm sure RTB will take on the challenge, how successful he is we'll have to wait and see.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

That's what we say at the end of every trade/ draft period. You can't cook chicken soup with chicken feathers. None of those guys have the capacity to fulfil the role next year. None of those guys apart from Taberner and potentially Apeness even have the capacity to play forward. Pearce can't kick and would end up kicking 10.30 if he spent the whole season up forward.

We are going to be in for a dour year next year if Pav retires and will be very lucky to make the top 8. As a result we will have our first top 10 pick since '09 and hopefully will be able to secure a key-forward through the draft or on-trade the pick for McCarthy. Only problem on the draft front is that next years draft is supposedly weak on key-forwards and the top forward prospect at the moment is an off limits academy player for GWS.

Somewhat of a silver lining is that Hooker has shown that he can play up forward, and I am sure that we will be signing him next year as a free agent. It will be a tough season next year, but hopefully we can start putting the pieces in place from 2017 onwards to be a legitimate chance to win a cup. We are never going to win one without a proper key-forward so we are going to need to bottom out to some degree eventually.

Pie in the sky stuff. Tall does not equate to forward aptitude. He wouldn't have played as a forward for 8 years at least. No idea where he played before '09, but he is going to find the going difficult enough trying to come back after all his injures, let alone putting him in the hardest position on the ground, and one that he probably only has limited exposure in.

Yeah pretty much. A lot of deja vu re: KPFs.

My personal view is that we should still, and should have looked more at reserves level guys at other clubs. I think someone like Shaw is still an option here as a de-listed free agent. Grimley perhaps too old to have any potential. None of these guys are going to be world beaters. They may not even play AFL games. But late drafted KPFs are a complete lottery and have the longest lead-times, bar maybe rucks. The more scratchies the better your chance of winning something.

The idea that we can survive as a genuine premiership threat without a genuine KPF is nonsense I think. We've seen what good teams can do to us rebounding when Pav is taken out of the contest, it is going to be worse when it's just Taberner to hold out of the way. No team has won a premiership without a quality KPF in the modern era. West Coast is probably the closest with the Q-stick and Hansen, although Lynch kicked 65 that year. No dockers player has kicked more than that in the last 3 years. No one else but Pav and Modra have ever done that.

This year we looked for a wider spread of goals, and to increase our scoring. We failed on both counts. Fyfe forward is a great idea in theory. However not only are we robbing Peter to pay Paul, we are going to expose Fyfe to the Pav treatment. He is unquestionably a gun. But can he still be the same contested marking threat week in, week out, when double teamed by two guys 5cm taller and 10kgs heavier than him? I think we'll be lucky if he can replicate Pav's output, let alone increase our scoring (not to mention hoping Bennell can replicate the goals Fyfe kicked).

I don't think we're missing the 8 though. Our midfield group is just too good for that, and Lyon will find a way to keep teams to low scores, even if perhaps that is part of a strategy that is arguably detrimental to our 'premiership chances'. But I agree with the notion that we need to look at a mini-rebuild. The forward talent stocks outside of Walters are absolutely dire. We need to draft forwards, we need to keep trying to trade for them and we need to kidnap Hooker's dog or cat or goldfish something and relocate it to WA.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Hawthorn and Western Bulldogs demonstrated this year that you don't necessarily need a dominant power forward to kick goals if you have quick and precise ball movement.

Clearly contested marking is important as one avenue to goal, and a kpf provides structure and straightens a team up, but it's not necessarily the be-all and end-all.

It's a good point, but it is only one side of the story. Hawthorn are excellent at delivery, but the forward talent there is still far beyond what we have. I'm not sure it's such a good comparison either. That list has essentially been built from the ground up since 2005 based on one key recruiting point: foot skills and football sense. I think we're kidding ourselves if we want to match that efficiency based on our current list.

The Bulldogs are an interesting point. But that style of play is just so antithetical to Lyon. And I don't think you can discount Stringer as a genuine target. Or Redpath, who in half the games would have been good for 4th on our goalkicking list.

 

[jackkkkk]

What pick will Mitch Brown go? Lot of different views if you search his name in BF

 

[Kenny_01]

I think we will be looking to get both Hooker and McCarthy next season.

 

[feds2000]

bite the bullet and recruit an American athlete type, have him around around circles 30M from goal

 

[dockerfemme]

Yeah pretty much. A lot of deja vu re: KPFs.

My personal view is that we should still, and should have looked more at reserves level guys at other clubs. I think someone like Shaw is still an option here as a de-listed free agent. Grimley perhaps too old to have any potential. None of these guys are going to be world beaters. They may not even play AFL games. But late drafted KPFs are a complete lottery and have the longest lead-times, bar maybe rucks. The more scratchies the better your chance of winning something.

The idea that we can survive as a genuine premiership threat without a genuine KPF is nonsense I think. We've seen what good teams can do to us rebounding when Pav is taken out of the contest, it is going to be worse when it's just Taberner to hold out of the way. No team has won a premiership without a quality KPF in the modern era. West Coast is probably the closest with the Q-stick and Hansen, although Lynch kicked 65 that year. No dockers player has kicked more than that in the last 3 years. No one else but Pav and Modra have ever done that.

This year we looked for a wider spread of goals, and to increase our scoring. We failed on both counts. Fyfe forward is a great idea in theory. However not only are we robbing Peter to pay Paul, we are going to expose Fyfe to the Pav treatment. He is unquestionably a gun. But can he still be the same contested marking threat week in, week out, when double teamed by two guys 5cm taller and 10kgs heavier than him? I think we'll be lucky if he can replicate Pav's output, let alone increase our scoring (not to mention hoping Bennell can replicate the goals Fyfe kicked).

I don't think we're missing the 8 though. Our midfield group is just too good for that, and Lyon will find a way to keep teams to low scores, even if perhaps that is part of a strategy that is arguably detrimental to our 'premiership chances'. But I agree with the notion that we need to look at a mini-rebuild. The forward talent stocks outside of Walters are absolutely dire. We need to draft forwards, we need to keep trying to trade for them and we need to kidnap Hooker's dog or cat or goldfish something and relocate it to WA.

I think we need to look at mature agers in WAFL, VFL whatever. We need to do that for a key defender as well.

I also think we need to consider Griff as a key forward.

We need to think about being innovative maybe putting the ball to grass going inside 50 to favour Sonny, Ballas etc rather than going to a 3 on 1. Maybe we could combine this with allowing certain players to ping from outside 50 (Hill, Mundy, Griff, Johnno, Suban, Croz), something only Pav ever does, to force teams to defend the 50m arc, maybe giving more space inside 50.

As mentioned before by me and others we also need to address our constipated ball movement.

We need to see 2016 as a year of change and not push for top 4, rather push to find new solutions.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

We need to see 2016 as a year of change and not push for top 4, rather push to find new solutions.

Could not agree more.

I do not think we will find a magic formula, but let's work on getting some kids and improving aspects of our game, then do the KPF dance again next time.

 

[XXRL]

It's a good point, but it is only one side of the story. Hawthorn are excellent at delivery, but the forward talent there is still far beyond what we have. I'm not sure it's such a good comparison either. That list has essentially been built from the ground up since 2005 based on one key recruiting point: foot skills and football sense. I think we're kidding ourselves if we want to match that efficiency based on our current list.

The Bulldogs are an interesting point. But that style of play is just so antithetical to Lyon. And I don't think you can discount Stringer as a genuine target. Or Redpath, who in half the games would have been good for 4th on our goalkicking list.

I agree that we're not about to become Hawthorn-like with our ball movement, and nor is the Bulldogs style suitable or something Ross would even consider.

What I'm hoping for is improvement in our forward delivery and ball movement as well as the continued development of our young key position players.

If we can do that then I think we'll be competitive next year, to the point we'll win most of our home games and a decent whack of away games setting us up for a tilt with any luck.

 

[MadDocker]

Hannath, Hurley, Griff, Clarke, Fyfe better all be out there training as forwards... Hopefully 1 of them can make it work.

 

[ComradeSplutnik]

Just remember, Hawthorn delisted Grimley and picked up Fitzpatrick.

They thought someone who wasn't good enough to get a game at Melbourne, was better than the player they already had. How good could Grimley be?

What's your take on Spencer White Chris and also Mason Shaw?

 

[ComradeSplutnik]

Hannath, Hurley, Griff, Clarke, Fyfe better all be out there training as forwards... Hopefully 1 of them can make it work.

I am cautiously hopeful regards Hurley. Purely on the basis that he made very significant advances in his first year of playing footy. He is also a very impressive athlete as well.

 

[Spoken4]

I would love us to get at least one late 2nd, early 3rd round pick. I think this is where players like M Brown, Adams etc will go.

You got what you wanted. Hopefully we snare two or three state-league KPFs.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

I also think we need to consider Griff as a key forward.

Griffen is okay up forward, better than Clarke because he does at least have some noticeable ticker. I would have liked for us to have got Jonathan Giles though, would have cost us nothing in terms of draft picks and wouldn't have lost much else if it didn't work out other than cutting Hannath loose a couple of years early. Worth the punt, I reckon.

He has a way better forward game than either of Clarke and Griffen, and I think he could have semi-flourished playing 80% forward/ 20% ruck for us. At least he reads the ball well enough that he could ensure that it comes to ground if he can't take a mark, unlike some of the other duds who tend to run under the ball and fail to impact the contest.

I'll be interested to see how he goes next year in the WAFL/ AFL.

 

[Admiral Byng]

We need to see 2016 as a year of change and not push for top 4, rather push to find new solutions.

I think that's quitter talk. We finished top of the ladder and played in a prelim final; even though we had a couple of glaring errors. We work on improving those areas we can finish top 4 again. We don't need a radical rebuild from scratch, we got a lot to work with. Top 4 next year, flag, start of a winning threepeat.

 

[inferno66]

I reckon Alex Pearce should get a go as our CHF. If Pav does end up playing lets play him as a FF. Pearce showed a bit this year when he was played forward... he was clunking some good marks. However his goal kicking this year was a bit iffy. But he can practice his goal kicking over the pre-season.