Analysis "Play the kids"

[catempire]

The ‘play the kids’ refrain is getting some airtime again now that we are going poorly. It warrants an empirical look at our team selection by experience and age this year.

To start with, I’ll let the numbers speak for themselves.




EDIT AND NOTE: I have included win/losses to address part of the argument from some people who say "play the kids". This usually comes directly after a loss and it is suggested that the loss happened because we played [older players 1,2,3] instead of [younger players A,B,C]. This is not the totality of the argument. The other element of the "play the kids" refrain is that "we're not going to win the flag so play the kids". The table helps elucidate whether we are, in fact, playing the kids.

 

[Seeds]

i dont agree with the play the kids mentality but wins in the short term isnt the point of their argument.

 

[catempire]

i dont agree with the play the kids mentality but wins in the short term isnt the point of their argument.

Some people have been suggesting losses are coming because of selection decisions.

There is a broader argument about long term interests.

I included win/loss to address the former but it isn't so relevant to the latter.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

It's not about winning, it's getting experience and games into our future.

 

[catempire]

It's not about winning, it's getting experience and games into our future.

Some people are arguing it's about winning. There are two elements to the "play the kids" push. I have edited the OP to explain this.

 

[Cattery]

The ‘play the kids’ refrain is getting some airtime again now that we are going poorly.

And there it is in a nutshell, " now that we are going poorly" a couple of bad games and suddenly everyone thirty or over is finished according to some posters, including Mackie (one of our best Saturday) and Stokes (one bad game)


Looking at that list the second highest average is players under fifty games, which suggests we're already playing the kids.
Personally think we've got the balance just about right, don't think any of the veterans are ready for the pet food factory just yet (can happen pretty quickly though) or that any of the "kids" pushing for their positions are in the same class at the moment.

Also don't understand the "if we don't play (insert name here) he'll want to leave" if someone like Kolodjashnij for instance wants out after just two seasons learning his trade then so be it.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

It's not about winning, it's getting experience and games into our future.

Absolutely spot on - and I think we are doing a reasonable job of playing the kids but I think we need to do more.
We need games into Kolo now as he should be in our minds as a starter in 2016 - just like we have done with Bews , Lang , Thurlow and Gregson this season.
We are desperate for mids so I can't understand why we haven't played JJ - his form looks to have been consistent in the VFL , including second best behind Jimmy 2 weeks ago. Gore should come under consideration as well now he is back from injury.

 

[cynical]

the default should be youth

If a kid in the VFL is doing enough to warrant selection in the AFL then he should be played over the oldie.

I would say Kolo, Smedts and GHS should be in the team, possibly Kersten again soon.

The worst performing oldies can play VFL if there isn't a spot available.

Unfortunately it seems to be the opposite, the oldies play unless they are injured.

 

[Teriyakicat]

the default should be youth

If a kid in the VFL is doing enough to warrant selection in the AFL then he should be played over the oldie.

I would say Kolo, Smedts and GHS should be in the team, possibly Kersten again soon.

The worst performing oldies can play VFL if there isn't a spot available.

Unfortunately it seems to be the opposite, the oldies play unless they are injured.

I think that is the default that has been used.
To flog the dead horse of recent weeks, we just have NOT had the players - young OR old- to put out on the park in recent times, through the myriad injuries this season.

WE. ARE. PLAYING. THE. KIDS!!!!!!


(*with the notable exceptions of players who have been injured and have only recently recommenced playing, a couple of players who are nowhere near AFL-level and possibly Kolo and Jansen, (Jansen having missed the preseason and the first 5 rounds with a hammy) have had interruptions to their season and perhaps just NQReady for a full senior game)

WRITTEN AND AUTHORISED BY TERIYAKICAT FOR DISTRIBUTION IN ALL RELEVANT THREADS.

 

[Partridge]

the default should be youth

If a kid in the VFL is doing enough to warrant selection in the AFL then he should be played over the oldie.

I would say Kolo, Smedts and GHS should be in the team, possibly Kersten again soon.

The worst performing oldies can play VFL if there isn't a spot available.

Unfortunately it seems to be the opposite, the oldies play unless they are injured.

It seems that way. Not every veteran has to be dropped of course, that's ridiculous, but if they have a poor game and there is a replacement I don't see why they can't play VFL. I'll be amazed if it actually happens though. Scott seems far too loyal to them. You could defend that position in 2013 when we finished top 4 and were a legitimate premiership threat. Harder to justify now.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

I think that is the default that has been used.
To flog the dead horse of recent weeks, we just have NOT had the players - young OR old- to put out on the park in recent times, through the myriad injuries this season.

WE. ARE. PLAYING. THE. KIDS!!!!!!


(*with the notable exceptions of players who have been injured and have only recently recommenced playing, a couple of players who are nowhere near AFL-level and possibly Kolo and Jansen, (Jansen having missed the preseason and the first 5 rounds with a hammy) have had interruptions to their season and perhaps just NQReady for a full senior game)

WRITTEN AND AUTHORISED BY TERIYAKICAT FOR DISTRIBUTION IN ALL RELEVANT THREADS.

I see your fine print! I don't recall Kolo being injured TC. Played every game as far as I know apart from being senior emergency one week...


*I also see you've fixed that up

 

[Teriyakicat]

I see your fine print! I don't recall Kolo being injured TC. Played every game as far as I know apart from being senior emergency one week...

Yeah, I changed that after I started to doubt my memory- so went and checked. You're right - he was out because he was emergency and I just stuffed that one up. Got that 'injury' mixed up with someone else's.
Sorry

Lol- just saw your edit.
The fine print is to weed out some posters who can't read the small stuff. It's meant to halve the protests I will get

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

Yeah, I changed that after I started to doubt my memory- so went and checked. You're right - he was out because he was emergency and I just stuffed that one up. Got that 'injury' mixed up with someone else's.
Sorry

I edited mine after you edited yours

 

[Teriyakicat]

I edited mine after you edited yours

Next time I'll wait

 

[you pick one]

A good balance of youth and experience is still the way to go and it's pretty well as good as we can expect right now given we have players from both groups either injured or just not quite ready,what will be interesting is how much game time and they will get game time is put into the likes of Vardy and Menzel and at whose expense add Clark to that and with only 8 games remaining we are again looking to be ending the season with list questions unanswered.

 

[kanyewest]

Anyone know what happened to our 3 players between 100-150 games?

 

[catempire]

Anyone know what happened to our 3 players between 100-150 games?

Duncan, Clark and Lonergan. Lonergan passed 150 games in Round 6.

 

[cynical]

It seems that way. Not every veteran has to be dropped of course, that's ridiculous, but if they have a poor game and there is a replacement I don't see why they can't play VFL. I'll be amazed if it actually happens though. Scott seems far too loyal to them. You could defend that position in 2013 when we finished top 4 and were a legitimate premiership threat. Harder to justify now.

dropped after a poor game and possibly a game in the vfl coming back after injury

eg earlier in the year when Rivers was injured there was a perfect chance to give Kolo a game but they chose the old guy (Rivers performed well enough so Kolo didn't get a look in)

even Kelly this week could have been given a game in the VFL instead of being sub

I'm surprised SJ hasn't been given a week in the VFL after his continual clown antics but I guess he can do what he wants as far as the coach goes

If it was up to me I'd be playing 6 out of the 8 30yos unless there was really no one pushing for a spot. Right now Rivers and Stokes wouldn't make the cut.

 

[catempire]

If it was up to me I'd be playing 6 out of the 8 30yos unless there was really no one pushing for a spot. Right now Rivers and Stokes wouldn't make the cut.

Average has been 6.1.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

Average has been 6.1.

0.1 too many CE. SJ needs to hack off that 6th toe of his that keeps making him spray his kicks. It's costing us games

 

[Overhang]

Really nice table catempire. I think the "play the kids" mentality more comes from the viewpoint that we don't care about the result of the game but the main priority is to get experience into young players in a hope to fast track their development. Now all though I don't think we'll make finals this weeks game is a lose it and finals is over sort of game, so is the week after against GWS. As far as I'm concerned lose one of those games and then it's onto "play the kids" with no major expectation about the results.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

As has been said, results now don't matter. It's how moves made now help our future that matters, and playing young players is more helpful to that end than over 30-year-olds. Not all that sure that more older players equates to better performances anymore, either. In the North game, we had our oldest team of the year playing and the highest number of 150+ game players, yet they were insipid.

 

[cynical]

Average has been 6.1.

because of injuries, bartel has been out most of the year

lets see what happens when all the oldies are fit and now that Smedts is over his injury and GHS is pushing for selection again

I suspect we will have to wait for injuries again or they will replace the worst performing kids

 

[catempire]

because of injuries, bartel has been out most of the year

lets see what happens when all the oldies are fit and now that Smedts is over his injury and GHS is pushing for selection again

I suspect we will have to wait for injuries again or they will replace the worst performing kids

Dare I say it, don't be so cynical.

 

[Scottland2007]

Joel Selwood believes we should be playing the kids too! He has graciously given up his spot in the side for next weeks game.