POLL - Do you support KNEELING?

[iBeng]

The issue I have is what if a player does not want to kneel, not because he has an opposite view but rather they would prefer to keep their thoughts private. if they choose not to kneel they would be scorned And cancelled by all and sundry with out even being asked why they didn’t. Being told how to protest is as bad as being told not to protest.

And I agree, but you are assuming one of those players said before they did the kneeling that he didnt want to, and people are saying Gil would have threatened him and anyone else who also didnt want to kneel with repercussions.

This is where this is getting all tangled up in "They shouldnt do it if forced!" and "They wouldnt have volunteered to do that dont be dumb!"

 

[Jimpson]

Easy counter to that. The player informs the club, records him doing it, and then does it even if hes told not to.

Then, if big bad Gil tries to get rid of him for doing it, he has a LOT OF EVIDENCE to back himself up.

You think Gil would go against THAT backlash just to try and stop another backlash?

Did you quote me by accident? Your comment doesn't seem to follow

 

[iBeng]

Did you quote me by accident? Your comment doesn't seem to follow

No, looks right, you are saying if a group of players said to the Club they want to have a kneeling for Hong Kong before the game and then they took that to the AFL that Gil would come down on it like a tonne of bricks.

Im suggesting they record this entire encounter so that Gil cant do exactly what you claim and bam, you now have a team kneeling for other causes they are passionate about.

Then we can have threads of people whinging about players kneeling for Hong Kong.

 

[Thedeftouch]

And I agree, but you are assuming one of those players said before they did the kneeling that he didnt want to, and people are saying Gil would have threatened him and anyone else who also didnt want to kneel with repercussions.

This is where this is getting all tangled up in "They shouldnt do it if forced!" and "They wouldnt have volunteered to do that dont be dumb!"

I don't mean to be rude but none of your posts seem to respond directly to the argument being made. For example here you are discussing assumptions that never featured in the original post. Please stop clogging threads with this stuff.

 

[iBeng]

I don't mean to be rude but none of your posts seem to respond directly to the argument being made. For example here you are discussing assumptions that never featured in the original post. Please stop clogging threads with this stuff.

No. Stop trying to strawman this shit.

People are assuming these players were forced to do this to fit an AFL narrative, thats why they are originally upset about this.

And some claim that players were forced to do it or they would be vilified.

No one seems to think that maybe the players discussed doing it and all agreed to it. Because thats just so illogical.

 

[Jimpson]

No, looks right, you are saying if a group of players said to the Club they want to have a kneeling for Hong Kong before the game and then they took that to the AFL that Gil would come down on it like a tonne of bricks.

Im suggesting they record this entire encounter so that Gil cant do exactly what you claim and bam, you now have a team kneeling for other causes they are passionate about.

Then we can have threads of people whinging about players kneeling for Hong Kong.

I dont follow. You might not be aware but in the NBA one of the coaches supported Hong Kong and the NBA went into meltdown. Lebron even had to publicly denouce the couch because the Chinese government were going to pull out of their billion dollar deal with them.

That's opression. You can't even comment on Hong Kong without suffering a massive issue. So if the players wanted to take a stand every level of the AFL would kill it because it would be too much of a storm. David Koch is trying to break the chinese market. Imagine if the Port Players did this? Would never happen.

If you want to get political you can't just pick the easy fight.

 

[iBeng]

I dont follow. You might not be aware but in the NBA one of the coaches supported Hong Kong and the NBA went into meltdown. Lebron even had to publicly denouce the couch because the Chinese government were going to pull out of their billion dollar deal with them.

That's opression. You can't even comment on Hong Kong without suffering a massive issue. So if the players wanted to take a stand every level of the AFL would kill it because it would be too much of a storm. David Koch is trying to break the chinese market. Imagine if the Port Players did this? Would never happen.

If you want to get political you can't just pick the easy fight.

And you know what? That is wrong and I disagree with the NBA and Lebron on all that. They are bowing to coin, as you say.

But that means they cant stand for literally anything else?

Where is the logic for that?

I dont march for child labor so therefore I cant march for anything else.

 

[Barrysballs]

No. Stop trying to strawman this shit.

People are assuming these players were forced to do this to fit an AFL narrative, thats why they are originally upset about this.

And some claim that players were forced to do it or they would be vilified.

No one seems to think that maybe the players discussed doing it and all agreed to it. Because thats just so illogical.

800 AFL players and they all want to kneel to support BLM?


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[iBeng]

800 AFL players and they all want to kneel to support BLM?


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Oh, you got me, if 799 wanted to kneel and one said "NO, I dont support stopping racial injustices! But Ill do it so I dont look like a dick." then thats the AFL pandering.

IF it was 600 and 100. 500 and 200. Doesnt matter what the ratio.

 

[Jimpson]

And you know what? That is wrong and I disagree with the NBA and Lebron on all that. They are bowing to coin, as you say.

But that means they cant stand for literally anything else?

Where is the logic for that?

I dont march for child labor so therefore I cant march for anything else.

But this whole movement is about opression. It's literally the same fight. You can't kneel against the opression of black people and not kneel against opression for the people in Hong Kong.

 

[iBeng]

But this whole movement is about opression. It's literally the same fight. You can't kneel against the opression of black people and not kneel against opression for the people in Hong Kong.

I agree, and I wish the AFL had the balls to stand up to china, but they wont because money.

Does that mean they should ignore all other things?

 

[Donakebab]

Remarkable how many sheep get their cues from America

Oh the irony.

 

[Barrysballs]

Oh, you got me, if 799 wanted to kneel and one said "NO, I dont support stopping racial injustices! But Ill do it so I dont look like a dick." then thats the AFL pandering.

IF it was 600 and 100. 500 and 200. Doesnt matter what the ratio.

Im not trying to win anything or get you.

Your reply sums up why I vote no.

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[iBeng]

Im not trying to win anything or get you.

Your reply sums up why I vote no.

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Because I believe the players may have empathy with a situation, you vote no to them kneeling?

The hell is this logic? Honestly?

 

[Barrysballs]

Because I believe the players may have empathy with a situation, you vote no to them kneeling?

The hell is this logic? Honestly?

Never heard of peer pressure?

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[iBeng]

Never heard of peer pressure?

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Yeah, it both led to systematic slavery and also helped abolish it in a little country called America.

But these guys, they were forced, nay threatened to support a cause they dont give two shits about. Human life in another coutry? Who gives a toss. We here to play FOOTY!

 

[rideclutch]

I don't 'support' it per se, because I don't think it actually solves anything - but it hardly ruins my day if players want to do it.

Tried putting myself in the shoes of a hypothetical player who didn't think it was a good idea and I can't see it being anything other than a massive shitstorm, not only for the player but his club/teammates as well. Do you owe it to them to fall into line as a representative of your club, at the expense of your personal opinions? Maybe? I really don't know.

I do know that reducing complex and layered issues down to simple YES/NO arguments means nothing will ever get solved, given no one is ever sure exactly what they are debating.

 

[DapperJong]

Peer pressure to not be racist actually sounds like a brilliant idea.

 

[Jimpson]

I agree, and I wish the AFL had the balls to stand up to china, but they wont because money.

Does that mean they should ignore all other things?

Yes. You can't allow one protest of opression but not another protest of opression.

Also my issue is more with the AFL than the players. I don't really care what the players do but my issue is with the AFL using this as PR exercise to say how righteous it is but then lick China's boot if the players ever mention Hong Kong.

 

[iBeng]

Yes. You can't allow one protest of opression but not another protest of opression.

Also my issue is more with the AFL than the players. I don't really care what the players do but my issue is with the AFL using this as PR exercise to say how righteous it is but then lick China's boot if the players ever mention Hong Kong.

This is really your position, they shouldnt protest people dying because they didnt protest China trying to take over Hong Kong?

 

[Jimpson]

This is really your position, they shouldnt protest people dying because they didnt protest China trying to take over Hong Kong?

People dying? I thought it was about Black Lives Matter? They kneeled in solidarity with their black brothers

But they cant kneel in solidarity with Hong Kong

The players can protest all they like. But the AFL shouldnt organise it into their schedule as PR exercise if they won't allow all protesting of opression.

 

[DapperJong]

This is really your position, they shouldnt protest people dying because they didnt protest China trying to take over Hong Kong?

the never ending search to justify what they actually think

 

[Collingwood 4 eternity]

Any pregame/pre bounce warm up in the past and in future by a group of team mates down on one knee in a huddle , was a cover for one or more of them taking a wee running down the knee

 

[iBeng]

People dying? I thought it was about Black Lives Matter? They kneeled in solidarity with their black brothers

But they cant kneel in solidarity with Hong Kong

The players can protest all they like. But the AFL shouldnt organise it into their schedule as PR exercise if they won't allow all protesting of opression.

What, did you think Black Lives Matter was refering to them getting bigger houses, more cars or extra money?

And not having them on an equal social footing so they dont die to police for things like speeding tickets and non-crime interactions?

You want to compare peopled dying and being treated poorly to what China is trying to do?

 

[Maddo11]

“The players want us to understand why they have chosen to do this, tonight’s gesture is one of support, unity and respect driven by the playing group,” the statement read. “We stand in solidarity with our indigenous brothers and sisters for all people of colour. There is no place for racism. The knee is an expression of that support, we see strength in diversity, it makes us better as a football club and as a community. We will be there for each other always, especially at a time when many are impacted by what is going on around the world. We will continue to learn and walk this journey together.”

How can people actually have a problem with this?