Mega Thread Port Forum 'General AFL Talk' Thread

[*PAF]

It is a very big 12 months for the Clowns. The Clangerfield issue will hang over the club for a while. Chapman to me seems like a dead duck and Roo has him in the gun. I think they are really trying to change things up. Seriously, it would have unimaginable 12 months ago that they'd sack their coach, then hire a untried Victorian and Port Adelaide coach. The real ballsy move for the Crows that would give them some short term pain but long term gain, is trade FIGJAM, get a couple of very high draft picks, recruit in some talent, particularly in the backline with the salary cap space they've opened up and give Sloane the captaincy. Doubt they would go down this path as their largely stupid supporter base would lose the plot, and I think they wouldn't want Port to gain further ground on them both on and off the field, but I reckon this strategy would stand them in very good stead in 2-3 years time. I think they will head for mid table mediocrity though.

I think the top part of their list is very talented but drops off a bit too early to be a serious contender and that was always going to happen because of the Tippett saga.
For mine they should try and keep Dangerfield but the last thing they would want is to lose him for next to nothing via FA.
Anyway my last Crow talk for a while as I'm always posting that there are too many posts about the Crows on our board and about Port next door.

 

[Hinkley Effect]

By his own admission Walsh has been a difficult person to approach, and didn't always have time for the players on the bottom of the list they way he did for the guys at the top end. Now he's going to have to deal with everyone in the club in equal measure. It will be interesting. At 54 you're generally pretty set in your ways too.

This will suit Dangerfield

 

[Janus]

Roo is trying to change things. Time will tell if he is up to the job but good on him for going down that path.

Fagan has good history. Time will tell if he can bring that to the AFL.

Walsh has very solid foundations. Time will tell if he has what it takes to be the senior coach.

Chapman would be on borrowed time as once a total clean out starts it doesn't usually stop until all the old players are moved on.

All true, but guess who is going to get it in the neck if it all goes wrong? Walsh and Fagan, that's who. Ricciuto has learned his lessons from Hurley well - you never put your neck on the line. Always get a stooge to put in the firing line in case things go wrong.

I say Fagan is a puppet because there's only one person he'd be going to for advice as to football matters, and that's Ricciuto. As for Walsh - he's been hand selected by Roo - is he going to take responsibility if he's not up to it? I highly doubt it. He's like Hird...the favorite son who has come back to lead the faithful out of the wilderness.

The Crows have just swapped their old boys club for a new one as far as I'm concerned. Until that loser board goes, especially Smart and Payze, nothing of substance will change.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

Yeah Christensen is a gun and how old, 22-23?

23.

 

[Portology]

The media are up and about but so are crowie supporters.

I have a couple of mates that are already talking about top 4 next season. Walsh is the new Hinkley
They seem to forget that Alan Richardson was Hinkleys right hand man for a season too and we all know how that turned out.

Yes: with Richo leading a St Kilda total rebuild and bad-culture clean-out, starting from the bottom up. Mention that one to your mates.

 

[Young Gun #6]

As one poster said from geelong he is a Charlie Dixon away from retiring, had a shocking injury this year only managed 8 games. Good player but suggesting he is worth a 1st round pick and a good player.. yeah nah.

 

[Pt Augusta Power]

Riccuito is running the show at camryland. His total obsession with the PAFC worries me.

 

[mic59]

I just feel there is too much of this "worth a top 10 pick" talk thrown around. Allen Christensen is a good player but is he worth an Ollie Wines, Chad Wingard, James Aish or Jackson MacRae? As yet he has only nominated the Lions but with the Beams trade likely to take up their best picks the Suns could come into it. Having activated one of the compensation picks they received they have 8 and 15 to trade with and may be able to get Christensen with the latter.

 

[Jim Dixon]

 

[FallingLiefs]

As one poster said from geelong he is a Charlie Dixon away from retiring, had a shocking injury this year only managed 8 games. Good player but suggesting he is worth a 1st round pick and a good player.. yeah nah.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=3351&tid2=14&pid2=3110&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

what would you ask for Hartlett. Severlely underrating other clubs players.

 

[Grave Danger]

Nathan Brown reckons Allan Christensen is worth a top 10 pick. He must have been smoking the same stuff that the Essendon and Collingwood trade officials have been smoking.

Does 'lel' mean laughing extremely loudly? If so, I lelled when I heard him say that

 

[Young Gun #6]

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=3351&tid2=14&pid2=3110&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

what would you ask for Hartlett. Severlely underrating other clubs players.

Well when i read people on here suggesting 22 and 37 for o'shea, Christiansen would be worth a bloody no.1 pick. Not sure for someone coming off as horrific injury as christiansen suffered how a ready made best ruck in their side, a young key mid (newton) and pick 15 wouldn't be enough for him..?

Why compare a 22 game average to an 8 game average by the way? What is the point of that?

I really think Hartlett's value would be higher than Christiansen but for Hartlett i'd probably swap for Ryder and a late pick as i assume Geelong would as well.

177cm mid's aren't exactly what a lot of clubs are looking for. Stats will never show you how good a player like Hartlett is either..



This is Hartlett's game against Richmond 1st week of finals yet he was almost best on ground...

15 disposals (6 contested), 1 behind, 2 tackles, 1 rebound 50, 3 inside 50's, 3 clearances.

 

[Spadge]

Riccuito is running the show at camryland. His total obsession with the PAFC worries me.

"Adelaide want to be like Port, and Port want to be like Hawthorn" - David Koch

 

[Young Gun #6]

Looking at bare stats won't tell you that a kick from Hartlett is often worth at least 2 kicks of Christiansen.. I've never seen him kick a goal over 40 metres yet Hartlett can regularly goal from 60 and is renowned for a 65 metre kick 30 cm off ground height yet a stat would consider that the same efficiency as a 15 metre chip kick (ala Kane Cornes) from christiansen to selwood.

 

[FallingLiefs]

Well when i read people on here suggesting 22 and 37 for o'shea, Christiansen would be worth a bloody no.1 pick. Not sure for someone coming off as horrific injury as christiansen suffered how a ready made best ruck in their side, a young key mid (newton) and pick 15 wouldn't be enough for him..?

Why compare a 22 game average to an 8 game average by the way? What is the point of that?

I really think Hartlett's value would be higher than Christiansen but for Hartlett i'd probably swap for Ryder and a late pick as i assume Geelong would as well.

177cm mid's aren't exactly what a lot of clubs are looking for. Stats will never show you how good a player like Hartlett is either..



This is Hartlett's game against Richmond 1st week of finals yet he was almost best on ground...

15 disposals (6 contested), 1 behind, 2 tackles, 1 rebound 50, 3 inside 50's, 3 clearances.

hartlett is probably worth more, but people here wouldnt trade him for a pick outside top 5. saying Christensen isn't worth something close to that i strongly disagree with. i would have him as same price as Ryder.

as for 8 games vs 21 here is his stats from 2013 where he was 2 years younger than hartlett this year.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...=14&pid2=3110&type=A&fid1=P&fopt1=2013&fid2=S

 

[FallingLiefs]

Looking at bare stats won't tell you that a kick from Hartlett is often worth at least 2 kicks of Christiansen.. I've never seen him kick a goal over 40 metres yet Hartlett can regularly goal from 60 and is renowned for a 65 metre kick 30 cm off ground height yet a stat would consider that the same efficiency as a 15 metre chip kick (ala Kane Cornes) from christiansen to selwood.

looking at bare stats wouldn't tell you Christensen is one of the hardest players in the AFL. it can go both ways, everyone overrates their own.

 

[tangolikelama]

Hartlett is worth nothing because he is going no where. Don't even talk about it. He is ours!!

 

[powermacs]

Hammer will be this years Robbie Gray. I'll be jumping on him for the Charlie.

 

[Jack Foster]

How bad are the Crows club ties? Seriously, it's like they are taking the piss wearing those.

Fagan: "Welcome aboard sailor... I mean Walshy."

 

[Young Gun #6]

hartlett is probably worth more, but people here wouldnt trade him for a pick outside top 5. saying Christensen isn't worth something close to that i strongly disagree with. i would have him as same price as Ryder.

as for 8 games vs 21 here is his stats from 2013 where he was 2 years younger than hartlett this year.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...=14&pid2=3110&type=A&fid1=P&fopt1=2013&fid2=S

Ryder's value is something of Pick 17 and Moore. I would disagree that a pick 5 isn't fairly close to Giles, 15 and Newton..

2013 is by far and away Christiansens best year and we are just entering into Hartlett's good years now yet the stats are not even close to as bad as i thought they would say.

If stats are ever going to underestimate a player it's someone like Hartlett. Would you disagree Hartlett's kick would not be worth 2 of Christiansen seeing as he can barely hit it 40 metres and in watching every Port game and most Geelong game's i'd dare say Hartlett would have 6+ more kicks per game over 40 metres than Christiansen would yet they average the same efficiency.

Being "hard" doesn't get incorporated into a stat as it is immeasurable (unlike kicking distances and height of kicks). Campbell Brown, Josh Hunt and Mitch Robinson are some of the "hardest" footballers in the league when they played.. doesn't mean that makes them any better than a player who clearly has the wood over another on pure eye sight in terms of kicking ability. If you could find metres gained i'd be surprised if Hartlett's wasn't 100+ more than Christiansen at the same efficiency.

 

[Janus]

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...1=3351&tid2=14&pid2=3110&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

what would you ask for Hartlett. Severlely underrating other clubs players.

Well, try comparing Christensen to Polec and you'll have your answer as to what he's worth. Pick 22 for Jared wasn't it? But since that was because he didn't play for three years, I reckon somewhere around 10-18 is fair.

 

[drcollossimo]

Roo is trying to change things. Time will tell if he is up to the job but good on him for going down that path.

Fagan has good history. Time will tell if he can bring that to the AFL.

Walsh has very solid foundations. Time will tell if he has what it takes to be the senior coach.

Chapman would be on borrowed time as once a total clean out starts it doesn't usually stop until all the old players are moved on.

I agree with WRB Walsh seems to be a reluctant senior coach not a guy whos desperate for the gig who was disillusioned with missing out (ie Walsh vs Hinkley). Senior coaching is as much man management as it is tactics these days thats why Ken works so well he manages everybody in the foot dept well the tactical structural thinking comes as a result of clear expectations, shared vision and purpose. To me the Crows have this a bit backwards with Phils appointment.

Fagan doesn't have a spotless record, when he was CEO of the Brumbies (i think it was) The club made losses in his time there before moving to the ARU a role he held for not even 12 months.

Lastly its quite clear Roo is calling the shots or at least making moves to get things happening shouldnt this be Chapman's job as Chair?

In any case it seems the writing might be on the wall for Nige Smart oh how sweet it will taste if he is moved along quitely or not..

 

[Young Gun #6]

Well, try comparing Christensen to Polec and you'll have your answer as to what he's worth. Pick 22 for Jared wasn't it? But since that was because he didn't play for three years, I reckon somewhere around 10-18 is fair.

They got pick 22, 34 and lost 29, 45 and Polec. So his value was not even as high as 22.

Christiansen to Polec is a good comparison.. as you said insinuating around a 10-15 pick which i completely agree with.

 

[FallingLiefs]

i agree he's worth around that. but it's not laughable that Geelong would want more than 15+Newton for him. i think he's contracted and probably their best kid i was simply saying that its not an unexpected response from a cats supporter. Comparing him to Hartlett wasn't anything against Hartlett I used him as a comparison for a gun young kid who is capable of taking the next step.

 

[Young Gun #6]

i agree he's worth around that. but it's not laughable that Geelong would want more than 15+Newton for him. i think he's contracted and probably their best kid i was simply saying that its not an unexpected response from a cats supporter. Comparing him to Hartlett wasn't anything against Hartlett I used him as a comparison for a gun young kid who is capable of taking the next step.

15 Newton AND Giles..