Chism
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
2nds Port Melbourne vs. Northern Bullants Sat. 8th August
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juddsentant517
Club Legend
I hate to knock him, he is working his guts out in the VFL and i respect him for that, he has been extremely handy as an undersized ruckman over the past few years and a good asset for our club, so i would hate to be the one to knock him
but
i think we are at the stage were we shouldnt be giving battlers a game, Cloke should be the perfect player in the VFL, he is big, strong and can take a grap, but his biggest weakness is his speed, and cameron cloke is not up to scratch with the speed of the AFL, we all know this, and the more goals he kicks at VFL level the easier we will forget this, and good on him for giving the VFL a crack and good on him for working his butt off at VFL level and demanding a spot, but he is a battler, and simply put, the way the Carlton team is at the moment, he does not have the ability to play for the Carlton footy club, not a knock on him, but as a top 6 club, we shouldn't be playing players based on purely form, but on a mixture of form and potential, we have to look at our team line up, and think, is cameron cloke our future, is cameron cloke really good enough for this lineup.
I can totally understand why he would be upset with guys like yarran and even stevens to a lesser extent getting games over him when he is working harder, and dare i say it bleeds the navy blue more, but the ability of a say yarran and a stevens is of a higher standard, and are an asset to our club, and i hate to say this, but for them to warrant games, they probably don't have to work as hard as cloke, purely based on ability
I admire and respect cameron cloke for the work he has put into our club, he as given it all at our club and i admire the fact that he is getting the best out of his body and ability, and a couple of years ago, that would be enough to get a game, but the way we are going, unless we get some unfortunent injuries, i don't think he is worthy of a spot in our team
sorry cameron
but
i think we are at the stage were we shouldnt be giving battlers a game, Cloke should be the perfect player in the VFL, he is big, strong and can take a grap, but his biggest weakness is his speed, and cameron cloke is not up to scratch with the speed of the AFL, we all know this, and the more goals he kicks at VFL level the easier we will forget this, and good on him for giving the VFL a crack and good on him for working his butt off at VFL level and demanding a spot, but he is a battler, and simply put, the way the Carlton team is at the moment, he does not have the ability to play for the Carlton footy club, not a knock on him, but as a top 6 club, we shouldn't be playing players based on purely form, but on a mixture of form and potential, we have to look at our team line up, and think, is cameron cloke our future, is cameron cloke really good enough for this lineup.
I can totally understand why he would be upset with guys like yarran and even stevens to a lesser extent getting games over him when he is working harder, and dare i say it bleeds the navy blue more, but the ability of a say yarran and a stevens is of a higher standard, and are an asset to our club, and i hate to say this, but for them to warrant games, they probably don't have to work as hard as cloke, purely based on ability
I admire and respect cameron cloke for the work he has put into our club, he as given it all at our club and i admire the fact that he is getting the best out of his body and ability, and a couple of years ago, that would be enough to get a game, but the way we are going, unless we get some unfortunent injuries, i don't think he is worthy of a spot in our team
sorry cameron
carltonfc12!
Debutant
Did yarran do enough to get a game in the seniors this week?
blue gunslinger
Hall of Famer
No I agree. Very good post. But certainly when players like Fish were delivering little and we had few fwd options Cloke may have slotted in nicely sveral weeks ago. Now that the team seems settled he most probably won't fit in. Hats off to players like Carlos and hampson who have stepped up and filled the void that Cloke was plugging
chaser1
Team Captain
Very well put juddsetanta, very well. Exactly as we get better,blokes like cloke and fisher won't be getting games unless we have injuries. We know what they can give us, in the ones. Cloke slow, including turning speed, but offers a decent contest,unfortunately does not cut in any side that is serious about playing finals consistently. Fisher exactly the same, we know there potential and it is not up to Standard. With players like Yarran, Setanta, stevens their is more upside in terms of ability and what they can bring to the table, that is why the MC is preferring to play them!
Cloke doesn't use his body and is a poor mover. Case closed.
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #83
His limitations have been noted. The bloke can leave with his dignity intact, AFIC.
It'll never happen of course but I'd consider dropping Setanta for Cloke this week.
I don't think Cloke has a chance of remaining at the club next year but he may help us win the next 2 or 3 games. We simply haven't had a reliable target other than Fev for the last few weeks. (thank goodness for Murphy's goalkicking!)
Setanta's performances in the past fortnight have clearly affected by the wounds Fev game him. He got a reasonable amount of the ball including a freakish catch from a kick-in. But his instincts once he had it in his hands were very meek. I think it will take another 2-3 weeks before Setanta regains his pre-injury composure. In the mean time, we could park Cloke in the goalsquare for a 3 kick, 3 mark, 3 goal performance. Cloke is in form, Setanta is not.
Still, I'd rather Jacobs or Warnock to allow Hampson to play forward. Kreuzer is too valueable to waste in a forward pocket.
I don't think Cloke has a chance of remaining at the club next year but he may help us win the next 2 or 3 games. We simply haven't had a reliable target other than Fev for the last few weeks. (thank goodness for Murphy's goalkicking!)
Setanta's performances in the past fortnight have clearly affected by the wounds Fev game him. He got a reasonable amount of the ball including a freakish catch from a kick-in. But his instincts once he had it in his hands were very meek. I think it will take another 2-3 weeks before Setanta regains his pre-injury composure. In the mean time, we could park Cloke in the goalsquare for a 3 kick, 3 mark, 3 goal performance. Cloke is in form, Setanta is not.
Still, I'd rather Jacobs or Warnock to allow Hampson to play forward. Kreuzer is too valueable to waste in a forward pocket.
Setanta was a valuable contributor for us against the cats. Cloke allows tho opposition to have it their way far too much.
I recon Garlett or maybe Austin has more of a chance of any one to get in but I don't want a change.
I recon Garlett or maybe Austin has more of a chance of any one to get in but I don't want a change.
I was under-whelmed. He took a number of grabs, to be sure. However, he seemed to give off too many nervous handballs for my liking. I thought we were trying to eradicate cheap possessions from our game. Handballing from a mark to team-mates under pressure doesn't increase the flow in our game.
I don't doubt Setanta would do a better job around the ground than Cam but as a forward target he's kicked one goal in 2 weeks (and been hidden in the backline.) With Cloke, why not strike while the iron's hot?
nosaints4flag09
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Azul what are you talking about Setant was good against the Cats. Are you serious that you think we should drop Sentant for 3 weeks leading into finals for Cameron Cloke. I am really sorry but 4 goals in the VFL does not mean at all he will have a 3 mark 3 kick 3 goal game, i think it would be more like a 4 kick, 2 mark and 0 goal game. He is nothing but an AFL battler who has the perfect fit for a career in the VFL.
nosaints4flag09
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HBF, so Yarran has had 1 good game for the year and here you are talking him up to be in the seniors once again, tell me why please. How does this kid warrant a spot in our seniors come finals time? He has not shown anything much at all in the games he has played, has not been in the best many times at all in the 2s.
What is with your fascination to bring him in so quickly? I am by no means saying he is not good, because when he gets the ball i am genuinely excited, but he is clearly not ready. Let the kid gain some confidence in the 2s, have a ripper pre season and then we will be talking.
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #89
The brainless among us require obvious stats before a player's quality and value to the senior team is understood. It's what they pay the professionals for - knowing when a player is right to go regardless of massive numbers at a lower level. This extends to players coming back from injury as well as any psych issues they may have encountered.
Don't feel too bad your ignorance is pretty much a given - you just seem to have been gifted more than your fair share.
nosaints4flag09
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Oh my bad thylacine Chris Yarran really set the world on fire and added so much value to the team when he was in. You premature fool you really must try and use your own brain for once, rather than sticking by your word for the year.
It has nothing to do with statistics at all you imbecile, when you go to the games do you see Chris Yarran put in any 2nd and 3rd efforts ala Eddie Betts? Possibly 1 chase down the wing is the best you will give me. Do you wonder why this is? Maybe it is because he does not have the fitness base to be an AFL player yet.
Get off your high horse thy and use a little bit of brain power for once.
Went down to TEAC Oval for the second half and was a bit underwhelmed by the performance TBH. Very good 3rd quarter got them back into the game and with a bit of luck and some better kicking for goal they should have been up at the final break. Grigg in the middle and Gartlett and Cloke up forward were the reasons for the Bullants dominance. The final term was obviously a complete capitulation as the Port boys ran amok kicking 8 goals to nil. Not a single Bullants player took it upon themselves to try and arrest the run-on Port had and at one stage they had a 4:1 advantage in their forward-line!!
Re the Warnock/Jacobs situation, I can’t recall Warnock having a disposal in the half and Jacobs put up a much better effort in ruck contests and at least flew the flag in the last quarter when everyone else was throwing in the towel. From what I saw Jacobs should come into the seniors before Warnock everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.
Other noticeables:
Cloke battled gamely, took some nice grabs and slotted a few set shots. Missed some regulation ones as well that could have made a difference in the third, but overall it was a solid VFL effort.
Yarran did SFA in the second half and didn’t look hungry for the contest, whereas Jeffrey played at a much higher tempo and snagged a couple of classy goals.
Banno went for a run through the middle of the ground at one stage and bounced the ball over his shoulder – muppet.
Fisher falls over a lot on VFL grounds too.
Browne tried hard but couldn’t really get into the game.
Bentick and Pinwill went head-to-head for a while, Pinwill>>Bentick
Bentley kicked his regulation running goal from the arc and that was it from him.
Hartlett did faaaaaaaark all.
Some big unit (maybe wearing #73 or 74) was running around like a headless chook and wouldn’t get a kick in a karate fight.
BOG: Big Sammy Jacobs for helping an anonymous commoner (myself) jump the massive queue at The Precinct later that night
WOG: The Port ferals I accidently sat behind on arrival. Two old ducks that wouldn’t know the rules of the game if they were tattooed on their wrinkly foreheads. I moved seats at the break…
Re the Warnock/Jacobs situation, I can’t recall Warnock having a disposal in the half and Jacobs put up a much better effort in ruck contests and at least flew the flag in the last quarter when everyone else was throwing in the towel. From what I saw Jacobs should come into the seniors before Warnock everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.
Other noticeables:
Cloke battled gamely, took some nice grabs and slotted a few set shots. Missed some regulation ones as well that could have made a difference in the third, but overall it was a solid VFL effort.
Yarran did SFA in the second half and didn’t look hungry for the contest, whereas Jeffrey played at a much higher tempo and snagged a couple of classy goals.
Banno went for a run through the middle of the ground at one stage and bounced the ball over his shoulder – muppet.
Fisher falls over a lot on VFL grounds too.
Browne tried hard but couldn’t really get into the game.
Bentick and Pinwill went head-to-head for a while, Pinwill>>Bentick
Bentley kicked his regulation running goal from the arc and that was it from him.
Hartlett did faaaaaaaark all.
Some big unit (maybe wearing #73 or 74) was running around like a headless chook and wouldn’t get a kick in a karate fight.
BOG: Big Sammy Jacobs for helping an anonymous commoner (myself) jump the massive queue at The Precinct later that night
WOG: The Port ferals I accidently sat behind on arrival. Two old ducks that wouldn’t know the rules of the game if they were tattooed on their wrinkly foreheads. I moved seats at the break…
Bluebear
Brownlow Medallist
Good call Guns.
I think Clokey deserves a shot.
It may well turn out that he isn't good enough for senior level.....ala David Teague......gun VFL player.....dud senior player (eventually).
But he has done everything he can to claim a spot in the seniors.
Problem for Clokey is that Setanta is in the team, taking some grabs, kicking the odd goal, setting a few up, and looking more and more like a CHF everyday. Setanta is also much more mobile than Clokey, better below his knees, and can put some pressure on when he doesn't have the footy.
If we decide to go tall he could come in for Wiggo, but my gut says that Cam's defensive game just isn't up to it. To balance that his offensive game has to be A1 or he becomes a liability quickly.
Deserves a shot though, and as you point out, some credit where its due......he is working his butt off.
I am all for picking kids on potential, however we have done that and so far Yarran has not even come close to showing anything near what would be required to be effective in September.
At this stage Gar >>> daylight>>> Yaz.
I hope Yaz comes good but by all reports he stunk in the 2nd half of the VFL so we will not see him again this season
The Exorcist
Club Legend
In our darkest days, Clokey has given his all for the Navy Blue. He always give 110% every game he plays, even though he rucked against bigger ruckmen
No one can ever question his commitment. It's unfortunate that he's struggling to get into the seniors - his pace and mobility can be problematic on the forward line and with Carlos playing well you can understand the position of the MC, which is also a problem Fish faces, and he's been replaced in the ruck by Hamma & Cruz
I'm not sure when his contract comes up for renewal but hope he stays on. He may well struggle to get back into the firsts but I'd certainly like him in there if a place falls vacant. Cloke is a strong mark and a very good kick
No one can ever question his commitment. It's unfortunate that he's struggling to get into the seniors - his pace and mobility can be problematic on the forward line and with Carlos playing well you can understand the position of the MC, which is also a problem Fish faces, and he's been replaced in the ruck by Hamma & Cruz
I'm not sure when his contract comes up for renewal but hope he stays on. He may well struggle to get back into the firsts but I'd certainly like him in there if a place falls vacant. Cloke is a strong mark and a very good kick
I'd rate him as an average kick. A high ball drop with set-shots results in some howlers while around the ground he shanks the ball badly whenever he tries to kick the cover off the ball, which is often. If his contract is up I can't see why we'd keep him beyond this year although I'll grant the fact that there are 3 other under-performing talls headed out the door before him.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Setanta's performance. For me a 2nd forward option is someone who takes marks inside 50 and kicks goals. Post injury he's played very gingerly - I just don't see why he shouldn't have to get back into form via the 2s like the rest of the team.
Cloke has been in form for the Bullants and in the short term might be a better option. Perhaps not for 3 weeks but, yes, I seriously think Setanta is lacking confidence post injury and has had no influence on the result these past 2 weeks. Letting him run around for the Bullants for a week or two would allow him to regain composure without the startled handballs he gave off on Friday night.
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #97
Like I said, sometimes the obvious is required before the brainless take note. I own no horse of any kind. "my bad"? Who are you, Sarah Michelle Geller?
nosaints4flag09
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Thy you moron try and speak some footy with the lads rather than attempting to crack some humour, which i actually think made nobody at all giggle apart from your stupid self.
You think Chris Yarran deserves a spot in our 22 at the moment, man you are one dumb fellow. Go along to the football, watch him play. Do not just read that he is a number 6 draft pick, actually get your moronic ass there and look for yourself. There are quite a few guys who are much much more deserving of a spot in the 22 at the moment.
You are a man who gets something in his head and cant let it go. Match committee also agrees with me, and i am sure alot of other blue supporters do too.
Off ya high horse and speak some sense freak.
You think Chris Yarran deserves a spot in our 22 at the moment, man you are one dumb fellow. Go along to the football, watch him play. Do not just read that he is a number 6 draft pick, actually get your moronic ass there and look for yourself. There are quite a few guys who are much much more deserving of a spot in the 22 at the moment.
You are a man who gets something in his head and cant let it go. Match committee also agrees with me, and i am sure alot of other blue supporters do too.
Off ya high horse and speak some sense freak.
juddsentant517
Club Legend
its one thing to bag one of our own, it is another to bag our loveable thy
now **** off and learn some respect. So often have i had to put myself through reading your torturess crap, yarran will be just fine!
thylacine60
Post-Human
- Banned
- #100
- Again, I am sans equine
- I have watched him play
- You write in an angry, agitated style
- I am here mostly for information
- I am no more single minded on the subject than yourself
- Agreement with the MC is no seal of approval in my mind - often the opposite
- I don't do "giggle"
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