Review Positives & Negatives - Saints v Crows - R8 2013

[Squizz]

Anyone stat savvy enough to post up the for/againsts for centre clearances and 4th quarter scores? I'm struggling to find them.

Centre clearances were 6-14. Dal 2, Steven 1, Armitage 0.

 

[Superduperouzel]

We were slow moving the ball into the forward line and Adelaide were able cut off entries easily. One passage of play involving Gwilt or Roberton I think , Milne then a long kick from Siposs and found Steven on his own. It went like a bullet from HB and the Crows defenders had no chance. Steven missed the shot though.

Dal Santo was a bit better. Gwilt , Fisher and Dempster were great. Stanley has got to take the game on. Get into space and run with the ball. He lacks confidence and is at least trying to do the team thing but needs a bit more a license. Unfortanutely we have no one for the really big fellas so he can´t learn the 3rd man Dustin Fletcher spare man role for now.
Joey was excellent. Geary is doing the team thing but would prefer Jones as No1 tagger and Geary off HB.

Our young blokes are developing very well. Our mature agers apart from Roberton are not having a great season. I think a spell in the two´s could help Saad in particular.

God we need a big smash and bash inside mid. Lenny is a beast and Ross needs more support. A real in and under player is what we are crying out for. Give Curren and Ledger a shot if thats their game. What have we got to lose ?

Negatives - Terrible game to watch.
Positives - We can bolt the door shut on finals and use the year to rebuild , develop the kids , iron out the deficiencies in the game plan and work on skills.

See us winning another 5 games tops this year but have some very promising kids who can really play.

 

[hayes]

Why?

I'm unsure where to direct the spotlight to be honest.

We were smashed last week for much of the night.

Is it our mids fault, or are they flying blind?

Adelaide have a big bodied midfield with a ruckmen who consistently put it down their throats. As good as his around the ground work is, Macca's ruck work is still a big concern for mine. All Jacobs does is tap it to his mids, and he just had his best game of the season. Not a coincidence IMO. Our mids definitely need to lift as well of course, but I still think that's the biggest concern.

 

[Squizz]

Squiz glad you brought that up, saw that often through the match too. We were often diagonal to the mark on a number of occasions trying to protect the centre corridor. It was obviously a match focus to do this.

Must say, I forgot to add earlier, great to have Gwilt and his poise and decision making back.

Yeah, also thought Gwilt was good tonight.

 

[mysainters]

Adelaide have a big bodied midfield with a ruckmen who consistently put it down their throats. As good as his around the ground work is, Macca's ruck work is still a big concern for mine. All Jacobs does is tap it to his mids, and he just had his best game of the season. Not a coincidence IMO. Our mids definitely need to lift as well of course, but I still think that's the biggest concern.

I agree.

I'll admit I'm curious to see how Hickey would go as our #1 ruck, because I want to see how he can sync with our mids....NOT in the forward 50 trying to be something he is not.

 

[hayes]

Yep forgot Gwilt as well. That's a compliment to him though as we're just so used to him being composed and good by foot.

 

[thomas_m18]

Milera / Riewoldt / Hickey​

Milne / Maister / Saad​

​

As good as Riewoldt is, who is looking at that forward line and quivering in their boots? ****ing no-one. Not much we can do at the moment (besides bring back Kosi) but we need to make changes. Saad, Milne and Milera not bringing enough, at least one has to go. The contribution we are getting from three of those guys is comparable to the contribution most teams get from their best small forward alone, if not less than that. Hickey should stay for development IMO (plus Macca could use support v Minno), but I'd probably drop Maister too. Siposs at FF seems a better option atm. When is Adam Schneider fit?​

​

Whenever Hayes is fit, get him in, and we need to replace some of those small forwards with mids. Love Jonesy and I know I said there might not be a spot there but clearly we could have benefited from his work tonight with Armo a little down and Hayes still out. Yes he has his failings but effort isn't one of them.​

​

Kids will take time but they can do it. Every week one or two of them will bob up and play really well. Eventually three or four will, and soon enough every week they'll be super solid. They can do it. Roberton and Wright have done it nearly all season, Ross last week, Newnes this week, the others are just as capable.​

grumble.

PS

This is in no way the reason we lost, but...

Dempster: AA 2012 defender
Fisher: AA defender, been consistent for years
Roberton: Relative newbie who is a jet and will be for years to come
Geary: Hard as nails small defender who can do a job when needed
Gwilt: Very solid defender, done very well this season, uses it very well
Wright: Great kid who hasn't put a foot wrong yet in senior footy
Stanley: Promising kid who has pace to burn and has all the makings of a future gun

No-one can tell me that seven aren't a great defensive group, but without the (probably two now) key backs they need they're always going to struggle. If we got those guys supported by a gun full back our defence would be so solid down there right now.

It's a shame too because Roberton, Gwilt, Fisher, Dempster and Newnes were all quite good tonight, yet we still go down by 40 points.

 

[Squizz]

Adelaide have a big bodied midfield with a ruckmen who consistently put it down their throats. As good as his around the ground work is, Macca's ruck work is still a big concern for mine. All Jacobs does is tap it to his mids, and he just had his best game of the season. Not a coincidence IMO. Our mids definitely need to lift as well of course, but I still think that's the biggest concern.

Totally. Macca does some good ruckwork around the ground, but the centre taps are killing us. I've argued before for Rhys to take the tap and then move forward with Macca taking over. But now that he's in development down back we have the tricky Hickey (with the dicky kicky) who should be used sparingly this year at AFL level - and focus on rucking in the VFL (rather than trying to be a forward in the AFL).

 

[goodie23]

Why?

I'm unsure where to direct the spotlight to be honest.

We were smashed last week for much of the night.

Is it our mids fault, or are they flying blind?

Well just my read but Lenny's absence has left a huge hole, Big Ben and Hickey haven't been tapping to advantage enough, other teams have been better at getting numbers to the ball and clean clearances have been all too rare.

 

[Sainttony]

Saad and Milera should be fighting for the same spot. Tbh I thought both were poor tonight and would prefer to see another midfielder come in. Ledger and Curren both look like they are doing well in the VFL. Bring them in as small forwards who have a run on the ball

 

[BrianSpeaking]

I thought the game was lost Thursday night when we replaced a runner in NW with Wilkes/Maister.
I have been saying it for a long time now, Maister is no good, tonight hopefully you guys will finally see my point.
We also had Siposs as a sub, why?
Out coached, out played, our clearances were pathetic, our hardness after the first quarter non existent. All in all one if the worst performances in the last two years.
Milera and Stanley are scared, they both sleep with the light on.
Jimmy Gwilt a good game, same as Roberton.
Need to keep playing Hickey, he will learn from AFL over spuds in the VFL, was huge in the 4th last week.
We will beat the Dogs next week which will suck, we need a top 4 pick, I want Boyd , Kelly, Billings or Aish!

 

[hayes]

Totally. Macca does some good ruckwork around the ground, but the centre taps are killing us. I've argued before for Rhys to take the tap and then move forward with Macca taking over. But now that he's in development down back we have the tricky Hickey (with the dicky kicky) who should be used sparingly this year at AFL level - and focus on rucking in the VFL (rather than trying to be a forward in the AFL).

Agreed. If we're going to go with Macca who isn't a good forward the second ruck needs to be a forward/ruck, not the other way around.

 

[thomas_m18]

Remember when we tried Maister at full back? I know it didn't work then but it would be very convenient if it worked now...

...nah... not going to happen.

 

[lenny_07]

Positives. Roberton and Newnes.


Negatives.

Our forward line didn't function and our midfield was almost non existent.

How many times did Adelaide run through the centre without a single St Kilda player appearing on the television screen? Where were they?

Not enough attacking mids, too many players are used as running backs and taggers, which is fine, but we have three quick players sitting in the forward line who can't get the ball because our mids are too stuffed to deliver it and don't have the ability to get it themselves.

Drop Milne, Milera and Saad.
Siposs into the forward line

Bring in Curren, Ledger and Jones/Saunders who will all get their own ball, and will allow all of the midfield to rotate through the forward line, remain fresh, and hopefully run out the game.

Teach Maister to run in the opposite direction to Riewoldt.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Murdoch should be next in, Maister out. Curren is a rookie, not up to it anyway.

 

[DT_35]

I will never watch another game is Milera is playing, guy is a f****** muppet.
Hickey was dreadful today, as was Farren Ray who's time is just about up (should never play another game again for that kick across the half back line that didn't get within 20 metres of a team-mate)
Did Maister even play?
McEvoy had a poor game.

Newnes
Joey
Robbo

I would be f****** pissed if I was Riewoldt getting that pathetic delivery into the forward line. It's hard enough watching it, can't imagine what he would be thinking.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Murdoch should be next in, Maister out. Curren is a rookie, not up to it anyway.

Can be elevated and he hasn't even been given a game, So how exactly do you know he isn't up to it?

 

[35Saints35]

Agree with your comment about ray. When your 5 year old says he should be out of the team for that kick and should go be a hair dresser then there is a clear problem

 

[Superduperouzel]

Can be elevated and he hasn't even been given a game, So how exactly do you know he isn't up to it?

He´s played just the 1 NAB cup game. Webster looked not up to it in his NAB cup appearance but looks very comfortable at this level even after 2 games.
Dogs will think they´re a chance next week and they are. If we play as poorly as today we´ll lose if they infact are not worse than us on the day. Thats the truth. The Carlton game we were lucky to win lets be honest they were severely handicapped with injuries in the match.

 

[tbarker]

Think Geary really hurt himself in a contest early, he went head first and crazy hard at a contest as he does....can't remember which contest, but the commentators let out a gasp at the collision. Was sore, maybe a bit fuzzy in the head?

Effort was there all night though, had a goal pinched by Milne as well.

Yeah - I remember seeing that and it may have contributed because he has some of the cleanest hands in the team. He has made the step up this year so my expectations are higher aswell. A good learning experience for him today.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Adelaide have a big bodied midfield with a ruckmen who consistently put it down their throats. As good as his around the ground work is, Macca's ruck work is still a big concern for mine. All Jacobs does is tap it to his mids, and he just had his best game of the season. Not a coincidence IMO. Our mids definitely need to lift as well of course, but I still think that's the biggest concern.

Jacobs has been pretty poor all season. This is probably the first game of the year where I thought he clearly won it in the ruck.

All in all it was an ugly game of footy. I think the score line is pretty flattering to the Crows. The game was much more even than 40 points. Your guys failed to convert their opportunities though. I know how that feels. I've watched the Crows have games where they couldn't hit the back side of a barn.

Thought Newnes, Ray and Roberton we're all surprisingly good. Also your top line players like Riewoldt, Dal Santo, Montagna and Milne are all in good form.

 

[Saints_MarchingIn]

I think Lynch just shows us how important it is to get games and time into tall players

 

[tbarker]

Adelaide have a big bodied midfield with a ruckmen who consistently put it down their throats. As good as his around the ground work is, Macca's ruck work is still a big concern for mine. All Jacobs does is tap it to his mids, and he just had his best game of the season. Not a coincidence IMO. Our mids definitely need to lift as well of course, but I still think that's the biggest concern.

Yep - unfortunately I agree. McEvoy was towelled up again in the ruck.

I also think we get caught out with the ruckman stuck in a back pocket or in a position to kick it inside 50. Why doesn't someone run past them for hands???? I watch this live and it drives me nuts. Not only does it expose a poor kicker to turning it over but it also robs us of a marking option further up the field. It has got me stuffed.

Our forward line is horrible. Players out of form and some not up to it. a massive let down in the first quarter. Every goal was kickable - embarrassing and an insult to the blokes up the field. We dominated the game for the first quarter and all we had to show for it was the same score. Time to change things up in the forward line. Milney can take a breather next week and Milera can be sub or also take a breather. Give their positions to 2x midfielders.

 

[Defacto]

Murdoch should be next in, Maister out. Curren is a rookie, not up to it anyway.

what is your thoughts on ledger?

 

[BrianSpeaking]

From what I understand he isn't one of the coaches favorites.

Personally I think he has a crack but his decision making and foot skills let him down, as does his lack of spread, deserves a chance to show if he should be on our list going forward, I know Ross Lyon likes him.

Regarding Curren, if we are in serious re build mode then we turf all our rookies out except Michington, he is no better than Rob Eddy or McQualter at this stage. I suppose I am looking for the next 200 game champion when looking at him this way. Could he be the last on our list? Of course he could but he has a limited ceiling IMO. Then again he won the Sandy B&F, although probably more on jobs done that flair and skill.
He is similar to Myke Cook in that his kicking is moderate at best.