Pre-Season 2015/16

[cooperrules]

Any offenders that would surprise us or was it just the ones we could guess?

It was same old same old. Like i said i had to leave it was doing my head in. Basic errors under no pressure whatsoever. Im feeling a little hollow right i dont want to be doomsayer but i didnt need to see that it was ugly. I was pumped and maybe a little fanciful about this year. losing carlisle and seeing what i saw today has put this season back into perspective for me.

 

[CanadianSaint]

Just left training they were doing match simulation. Same old shit bad kicking cant handball 3 metres had to leave. On the upside paddy mac looking dangerous although he takes two grabbers will still be a very good player.

Question: Are the boys kicking more aggressively and moving the ball into the corridor more? I have been working on a theory, looking at some of the games from last year, that Richo was going to try to force our boys to kick more aggressively, move more quickly and take the game on through the middle more this year.

I think he will be focusing on getting us out of the Watters inspired, boundary line hugging movement that we were still producing last year all the time. I think this year may be a big growing year for our boys in this respect, as AR forces us to play a more rounded version of his game plan. It seems to me to be a fusion of the Saints and Geelong game plans from 2009. tough defence, hard tackling, solid structure like the Saints, but with the ball... Daring movement, fast, aggressive exacting ball play like Geelong.

We have a long way to go to achieve this, but I must say that it would be Footy that is worth watching.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Again on the Hickey thing. A big help to solving this problem is the progress of Membery


Question: Are the boys kicking more aggressively and moving the ball into the corridor more? I have been working on a theory, looking at some of the games from last year, that Richo was going to try to force our boys to kick more aggressively, move more quickly and take the game on through the middle more this year.

I think he will be focusing on getting us out of the Waters inspired, boundary line hugging movement that we were still producing last year all the time. I think this year may be a big growing year for our boys in this respect, as AR forces us to play a more rounded version of his game plan. It seems to me to be a fusion of the Saints and Geelong game plans from 2009. tough defence, hard tackling, solid structure like the Saints, but with the ball... Daring movement, fast, aggressive exacting ball play like Geelong.

We have a long way to go to achieve this, but I must say that it would be Footy that is worth watching.

I'm not completely against the boundary line thing.
If you are trying to move the ball forward it switches the odds in your favor.

Consider a player with an equal opponent.

Kick to a contest in the corridor and its 50/50 that it gets turned over and rebounded.
Kick to a 1 on 1 near the boundary. Its maybe 30% that a clear possession is gained ,and 30% Its knocked over the line in decent spot.

The strategy relies on having a decent kick ( so you don't kick it out ) and decent rucks ( which we have in Longer ).

 

[cooperrules]

Question: Are the boys kicking more aggressively and moving the ball into the corridor more? I have been working on a theory, looking at some of the games from last year, that Richo was going to try to force our boys to kick more aggressively, move more quickly and take the game on through the middle more this year.

I think he will be focusing on getting us out of the Waters inspired, boundary line hugging movement that we were still producing last year all the time. I think this year may be a big growing year for our boys in this respect, as AR forces us to play a more rounded version of his game plan. It seems to me to be a fusion of the Saints and Geelong game plans from 2009. tough defence, hard tackling, solid structure like the Saints, but with the ball... Daring movement, fast, aggressive exacting ball play like Geelong.

We have a long way to go to achieve this, but I must say that it would be Footy that is worth watching.

No game plan in the history of the game is going to gelp a player who A) cant handball 3 metres or B) cant kick a 15 metre pass

 

[The Jack Pack]

Every day is leg day when you're Jack Sinclair.

 

[CanadianSaint]

No game plan in the history of the game is going to gelp a player who A) cant handball 3 metres or B) cant kick a 15 metre pass

There is not debating that!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah its disappointing to watch - I was the same last year watching pre season training OUR SKILLS are below the required level and far worst under pressure. Until Richo and his coaching team can improve the team skills 30% we are going no where!

Yet last year the team in the season proper were actually quite good to watch and certainly performed better than the doomsayers predicted.

 

[CanadianSaint]

I'm not completely against the boundary line thing.
If you are trying to move the ball forward it switches the odds in your favor.

Consider a player with an equal opponent.

Kick to a contest in the corridor and its 50/50 that it gets turned over and rebounded.
Kick to a 1 on 1 near the boundary. Its maybe 30% that a clear possession is gained ,and 30% Its knocked over the line in decent spot.

The strategy relies on having a decent kick ( so you don't kick it out ) and decent rucks ( which we have in Longer ).

Its a good point, but I think Bombers game plan was more of: "if you centre the ball, don't go sideways a second time, cause if you don't hit your target and you turn it over your still the same distance from you goal as were you started. If you centre the ball your next kick should preferably be to a free target, up the ground and in the corridor, if there is one" This means your further from goal and your forwards have there opponents still one on one.

Admittedly, this takes a lot of skill. Geelong had that skill. But I noticed Jack Steven do it a lot more last year, he was a lot more direct. This of course didn't always work, Jack is prone to a sharp pass that misses its target, but it also often resulted in a shot on goal for Bruce or Roo too...

 

[plugger66]

Yet last year the team in the season proper were actually quite good to watch and certainly performed better than the doomsayers predicted.

Exactly. I wouldn't be worried to much about skills at training in late January. They have over 2 months until the first game and they maybe trying things now that the players may not be capable of. Also when you are tired your skills drop off. I would think they are in a big loading zone and as such would be very tired.

 

[DarkSaint]

It was same old same old. Like i said i had to leave it was doing my head in. Basic errors under no pressure whatsoever. Im feeling a little hollow right i dont want to be doomsayer but i didnt need to see that it was ugly. I was pumped and maybe a little fanciful about this year. losing carlisle and seeing what i saw today has put this season back into perspective for me.

Hopefully it's just rust.... But I do agree with you watching our games last year, you could see how hard the boys work to create a turn over or to run into space and only for one of our players to absolutely butcher the ball.

Imo this is one of the area that we are pretty far behind other teams in the comp.

 

[Gangnam Saint]

If we're not developing players with elite execution through rigorous kicking drills as a major part of our program then we are sadly falling behind the rest of the comp.
The Hawks have shown the way and many are following - we should be too.

 

[Joffaboy]

well he has been... would you be happy with his current output in 2018?

If he was given the run Mr Potential has had I believe we would be in a better position.
Longer is so overrated by this board and the club and I stress AT THE MOMENT, it isn't funny.
Sobraz hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately he obviously a Richardson favourite like Longer

 

[Joffaboy]

Exactly. I wouldn't be worried to much about skills at training in late January. They have over 2 months until the first game and they maybe trying things now that the players may not be capable of. Also when you are tired your skills drop off. I would think they are in a big loading zone and as such would be very tired.

Even practice games are deceiving. With a bunch of Saints and Bulldogs early Feb 2009 joking about how our teams we're in for a long season while watching a terrible practice Match at Princes Park.

Both teams went alright that year

 

[Saint believer]

How were the kicking skills of those recruited in the last 3 years? These kids are all supposed to be able to kick

 

[Stewart66]

He's being asked to play as a ruck/forward because Longer is a much better ruckman.

St Kilda liked Hickey when he was at GC because he looked like he had the ability to play forward... he's had injury issues that have put him behind the 8 ball & stymied his development to an extent. Tom has shown that he can play the very tall forward role to a pretty good standard on occasions...it's just about consistency now & working into an effective group with our other forwards.

Billy was thrown into the deep end when Tom & Rhys were injured in 2014 & has performed exceptionally well for a very young & inexperienced ruckman ever since. For some reason some supporters refuse to acknowledge this and continue to run with a Billy v Tom argument.

Ghost was spot on... at the end of this season Tom will have either locked in a spot as a ruck/forward or he'll probably look at other opportunities. Either way St Kilda will benefit from having 2 very good senior ruckman & 2 promising back ups.

It is not about hit outs , Longer is an aggressive big man who loves the crash , bash around clearances.
Small midfielders thrive around this type of player who pressures , tackles provides 2nd & 3rd efforts.
Hope Hickey makes the forward / ruck role his spot as it suits his style .

 

[plugger66]

It is not about hit outs , Longer is an aggressive big man who loves the crash , bash around clearances.
Small midfielders thrive around this type of player who pressures , tackles provides 2nd & 3rd efforts.
Hope Hickey makes the forward / ruck role his spot as it suits his style .

The problem with that is we have finished 17,16 and 17 the last 3 years in clearances. 2 of those years with Longer mainly rucking and one with Hickey rucking a little. Doesn't seem the big body is helping clearances at all.

 

[gringo2011]

He's being asked to play as a ruck/forward because Longer is a much better ruckman.

St Kilda liked Hickey when he was at GC because he looked like he had the ability to play forward... he's had injury issues that have put him behind the 8 ball & stymied his development to an extent. Tom has shown that he can play the very tall forward role to a pretty good standard on occasions...it's just about consistency now & working into an effective group with our other forwards.

Billy was thrown into the deep end when Tom & Rhys were injured in 2014 & has performed exceptionally well for a very young & inexperienced ruckman ever since. For some reason some supporters refuse to acknowledge this and continue to run with a Billy v Tom argument.

Ghost was spot on... at the end of this season Tom will have either locked in a spot as a ruck/forward or he'll probably look at other opportunities. Either way St Kilda will benefit from having 2 very good senior ruckman & 2 promising back ups.

We liked Hickey at GC because we had Mc Evoy and Stanley neither was star. Most teams carry at least 4 genuine ruck options on the books as back up. we were very lucky to have both available last year for most of the season. I think Hickey might get another chance to prove himself.

 

[Mindtraveller]

Yep. Lets dump a 22yo ruckman for a 24yo whoinjury prone ruckman who might get 5 more possies but 30 less hit outs.

 

[Persevering Saint]

If he was given the run Mr Potential has had I believe we would be in a better position.
Longer is so overrated by this board and the club and I stress AT THE MOMENT, it isn't funny.
Sobraz hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately he obviously a Richardson favourite like Longer

A flipping men.

 

[cooperrules]

Hopefully it's just rust.... But I do agree with you watching our games last year, you could see how hard the boys work to create a turn over or to run into space and only for one of our players to absolutely butcher the ball.

Imo this is one of the area that we are pretty far behind other teams in the comp.

I am always hopeful that we can improve but i think that will come through in the next few drafts. Our bottom 10 to 15 in our best 22 have skill issues even our best players butcher the ball. So were still in a transitional period in regards to pure footballers.

 

[Barrels]

Well this place has become as fun as a handy from Edward Scissorhands...

 

[Stewart66]

The problem with that is we have finished 17,16 and 17 the last 3 years in clearances. 2 of those years with Longer mainly rucking and one with Hickey rucking a little. Doesn't seem the big body is helping clearances at all.

It was because we had the slowest lack of spread midfield in the competition.
Also lost a couple of reasonable midfielders in Hayes & Dal Santo.

Ruck is not the problem ,depth in the midfield is at present problem .
Hopefully fixed soon.

 

[plugger66]

It was because we had the slowest lack of spread midfield in the competition.
Also lost a couple of reasonable midfielders in Hayes & Dal Santo.

Ruck is not the problem ,depth in the midfield is at present problem .
Hopefully fixed soon.

I'm not doubting depth in the midfield is the problem. I have said that for the last 3 years but I still say hit outs are the most overated stat in the AFL. Goldstein is a great ruckman because he also gets the ball around the ground and can take a grab. Cox was the same. There are people who love ruckmen who win hit outs and then there are others who like them to contribute around the ground. I fall into the second category but I understand others in the first. I would ruck Hickey but doing that would mean Longer is in the seconds so that isn't going to happen. Hickey either becomes a forward or leaves the club I would think unless sides use a ruckman on the bench. Cant see that happening.

 

[hayes]

I think it's important to remember that at the end of 2014 Hickey was our number 1 ruckmen..until Longer took that position off him by the end of preseason. Saying Billy has been "given" something is just completely wrong because he earnt that spot.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Question: Are the boys kicking more aggressively and moving the ball into the corridor more? I have been working on a theory, looking at some of the games from last year, that Richo was going to try to force our boys to kick more aggressively, move more quickly and take the game on through the middle more this year.

I think he will be focusing on getting us out of the Waters inspired, boundary line hugging movement that we were still producing last year all the time. I think this year may be a big growing year for our boys in this respect, as AR forces us to play a more rounded version of his game plan. It seems to me to be a fusion of the Saints and Geelong game plans from 2009. tough defence, hard tackling, solid structure like the Saints, but with the ball... Daring movement, fast, aggressive exacting ball play like Geelong.

We have a long way to go to achieve this, but I must say that it would be Footy that is worth watching.

Brilliant post mate.