Primus - how is the gloss looking

[tealpower]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

If you firmly believe Primus can't do it, then yes, that's the conclusion you will come to. I only asked "what if," though it was admittedly a leading question. Surjan was dropped from the leadership group of three, missed the new cut of seven, and then was a late addition along with Salopek in an even further expanded group. Of nine.

The psychological profiling led to a group of three. Throwing it open to the squad leaves him on the outskirts of nine. I can't claim to be right considering we only have a few morsels of circumstantial evidence available to us, but I don't think my hypothesis is that far out there, either.

The reasonable comment suggest it's some way off the mark given the initial analysis was done by industry experts, not a singular appointment. The fact that the players saw fit to re-introduce Surj into the leadership fold also suggests otherwise. Both queries lead to the same destination. Ironically, the group identified by the psychoanalysis appears to be the group who showed actual on field leadership through their actions.

I've come to my own conclusion and it's an obvious one. Port Adelaide is in the doldrums and it's affecting everyone. There doesn't need to be any divisional forces or player cliques for it to be so. I've not been impressed with Primus this season but am willing to see out 2012 in the hope that there is a plan that will bear fruit.

Primus needs a better administration, a better General Manager and better coaches put around him. Choco to Primus wasn't Roos to Longmire nor have we created cultural strength like Sydney.

 

[squinto]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Bailey 'coached for picks'..... Sounds like someone we know???

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/119906/default.aspx

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

and keeps picking them

He's gotta pick someone. If we dropped everyone who didn't work hard enough we'd be playing with 10 players every week.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Bailey 'coached for picks'..... Sounds like someone we know???

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/119906/default.aspx

He did the right thing as is Primus alot of clubs do it but we need to trade really smartly this year Rhode can earns his keep this off season

 

[PJ Power]

Re: Port v Collingwood Gameday Thread

It's a very, very, very sad state of affairs down there. I have no idea who or how they will turn this around.

I just don't think that Primus is the bloke to do it. No signs at all that he has any tricks to pull out of the bag.

 

[silverfingers]

Re: Port v Collingwood Gameday Thread

Fast losing faith in Primus, regardless of the crap he has to work with on a weekly basis. Tonight was an all-new low point.
Not sure he is up to the task anymore, and listening to his presser afterwards confirmed this.
Doesn't believe in confidence.
Thought our effort was acceptable.

Did say the players weren't following instructions / gameplan.
Yet didn't know why...

 

[Black 18]

Re: Port v Collingwood Gameday Thread

Fast losing faith in Primus, regardless of the crap he has to work with on a weekly basis. Tonight was an all-new low point.
Not sure he is up to the task anymore, and listening to his presser afterwards confirmed this.
Doesn't believe in confidence.
Thought our effort was acceptable.

Did say the players weren't following instructions / gameplan.
Yet didn't know why...

On the game - just "oh boy, wow"

On the presser - just "we have no hope"

Matty suggested the effort was there as we were "matching" them with contested stuff! Really? I mean really?

Matty if your coaching ability reflects your current understanding of our situation and how a game of football is won & lost please just walk away now. Please.

When someone wins the ball in a conested situation that is about a third of the whole. Now I know for many a year we have marvelled at the brilliance of many of our so called leaders and senior players in their ability to win junk stats but please dont become another coach who masks the truth with just plain wank assessments.

Winning the footy is just the initial part, then scrubbing a kick 20m forward to an opposition player doesn not count as "matching them with contested stuff". Collingwood player wins the contested stuff, he then gets him arms free and handballs off to a player in a better and more attacking position, or he wins the contested stuff and then disposes (accurately) by foot to a player in a better position. This is followed up by then moving on and helping the player given the ball by running to present again, or running to help - like shepherding.

Port player just grabbing the ball and blindly kicking DOES NOT match Collingwood, or anybody. Probably not even good state league teams. Port player handballing to a guy in no better spot than himself (more times than not its usally to a guy in a worse position) DOES NOT mean you're "matching" it with them.

To sit there in a presser and even have the guts to try and pass that off as a matter of fact - speechless. You're either a total clown with NFI, or you're taking the piss. Either way it shows more about you than what you may well think.

Then to go on about how "we didn't do what we were told" is starting to become a recurring theme to your pressers. Don't you begin to look at why that is so? Or do you just hurry back to Alberton to get more plans constructed to embarass our Club with? They dont do what they are told because they are incapable of doing, if you can't work that out by now then once again - speechless. Just being able to do something for a few minutes here and there doesnt mean you're capable, just means you got lucky.

Take the worst SANFL midfielder going about, place him in our midfield, play him for 24 rounds and guess what. Occasionally he will win a clearance, occasionally he will find the ball, occasionally he will rack up a few stats - and why? Not because he has the skill or ability, just pure random luck. Do something enough and occasionally it will work. But that in itself is by no means justifictaion that you have what it takes. If anything it proves you haven't.

Now go look at our list and see how it has been for years now. To suggest you're on the right track shows you aren't.

Without honesty and truth in assessment of every single part of our club - from admin to footy dept - we will only get worse, if possible.

Horrible, just horrible.

 

[blaargh]

Re: Port v Collingwood Gameday Thread

Port player just grabbing the ball and blindly kicking DOES NOT match Collingwood, or anybody. Probably not even good state league teams. Port player handballing to a guy in no better spot than himself (more times than not its usally to a guy in a worse position) DOES NOT mean you're "matching" it with them.

I think that this was really evident in the way that Collingwood trained when I watched them this week - in their end-to-end movement drils if a player took the wrong option/handballed to a poorly positioned player, the whole drill stopped and malthouse went over and gave them a ittle 'advice'.

I have a feeling that even in training we just ignore the problems and try to continue... with not opposition this is easy.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

^ We shouldn't lose some of these comments in a single game thread.

The question is fast becoming is there any gloss left to wear off?

 

[Forzaport]

Re: Port v Collingwood Gameday Thread

It doesn't matter if Primus is a good coach or a bad coach. Our entire football department is easily the worst in the league. Coaching Port Adelaide right now would be like trying to steer the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. I'm officially on the 'sack Rohde' bandwagon now.

 

[Andre]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Primus is the next Timmy Watson. Good bloke, great player, shit coach. Now I have a lot of respect for Watson for being the only coach who was crap with the balls to admit it and step aside. There's no shame in admitting you thought you could do a job and then finding you couldn't. Only in knowing you can't yet holding on regardless.

 

[Peck]

Re: Port v Collingwood Gameday Thread

yawn

been there

he's been a ruck coach there for 6 years

he's been there over 30 games now

he had last year, trade, draft, did nothing

as a coach he's showed nothing

just go back to the games last year vs st kilda and bulldogs. its ALL there to see, plain and obvious. the guy simply does not know what to do

nice guy im sure, but not up to the job

he needs to be asked to walk at seasons end

Save it till half way through next year. That's when we will have seen Matthew's influence for real.

I know I've said the same thing about halfway through this year, and I really thought we would see a lot more improvement but it is very clear we need a huge off-season in terms of list & management turnover. How we go in trade week now that Matty knows who he wants to keep and who he wants out (not necessarily right) will show us if he was the right man.

And don't bring up the "he has been ruck coach for x years" BS, as it is completely irrelevant to how the players have reacted to him as head coach.

 

[tealpower]

Re: Port v Collingwood Gameday Thread

Save it till half way through next year. That's when we will have seen Matthew's influence for real.

I know I've said the same thing about halfway through this year, and I really thought we would see a lot more improvement but it is very clear we need a huge off-season in terms of list & management turnover. How we go in trade week now that Matty knows who he wants to keep and who he wants out (not necessarily right) will show us if he was the right man.

And don't bring up the "he has been ruck coach for x years" BS, as it is completely irrelevant to how the players have reacted to him as head coach.

Lurk3r, we can safely assume we've seen the player group respond to Matthew Primus in 2011. There's a big enough sample of games to understand that now. It isn't pretty and as Primus says (the players aren't following instructions) then the message is wrong or the players simply don't respect him as a Head Coach.

Primus needs an external and disconnected mentor and a thorough performance review from the newly created Director of Coaching position at Port Adelaide. This position should be created with the sole goal of sourcing assistants for Matthew Primus and reviewing all matters pertaining to coaching at Port Adelaide. Football Operations can be serviced separately. This role should be created to overview every single decision Matthew Primus and his assistants make.

I don't expect that to eventuate, but it would be a welcome aide for Mattress.

 

[Tredz]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Would be interesting to hear from others which players performance and aspects of our game have improved this year. Personally I can't name many (any actually) but then again I'm no expert like several on you are on here. If there has been little or no improvement who then is accountable? (NOTE: Those responsible and those accountable are often quite different). To my mind I would expect the coach needs to be accountable to ensure continued on-field development and improvement individually and as a team. As a corporate manager if I were unable to demonstrate a single element of improvement for my team (even over a relatively short period) my personal integrity and honor would compel me to resign. I would expect "significant" improvement on several levels in 2012 is required for Matthew Primus to keep his job. The board should be putting together a contingency and succession plan NOW however in case "significant improvement" doesn't occur.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I think what we have seen this year is that if you pick players on anything other than form, you are going to get in trouble.

Primus with his youth policy has overcorrected for Choco's undying faith in senior players.

We thought that 119 damaged our players, well a new group of players has lived that half a dozen times this year.

If we get rid of 11-12 players at the end of the year I'd like 3-5 new players to be the cream of the VFL/SANFL/WAFL competition. Men who know how to play the game. Because what we have at the moment is boys who stop playing as soon as the opposition ices the game.

 

[Peck]

Re: Port v Collingwood Gameday Thread

Lurk3r, we can safely assume we've seen the player group respond to Matthew Primus in 2011. There's a big enough sample of games to understand that now. It isn't pretty and as Primus says (the players aren't following instructions) then the message is wrong or the players simply don't respect him as a Head Coach.

Primus needs an external and disconnected mentor and a thorough performance review from the newly created Director of Coaching position at Port Adelaide. This position should be created with the sole goal of sourcing assistants for Matthew Primus and reviewing all matters pertaining to coaching at Port Adelaide. Football Operations can be serviced separately. This role should be created to overview every single decision Matthew Primus and his assistants make.

I don't expect that to eventuate, but it would be a welcome aide for Mattress.

I agree that as a group we have seen the players attempt to play Matty's gameplan, and I definitely accept that it hasn't been pretty. I more think (and maybe it's just recursive optimism) now that we need to see those players changed, rather than just giving them time to try and implement the gameplan (though I strongly believe that a playing group needs a lot of games together before they really gel - hopefully it won't take 8 years.) Which to me means that this off season will define our next 2 or 3 years. If we can land a couple of big trades, set up a good coaching box, and delist anyone who isn't good enough I will have a lot of faith in the club. If we have our own version of crazy vossy, I will know that we are ****ed for the time being.

As far as Matty's coaching is concerned regarding gameplan though (and i may be contradicting myself here) I don't quite think anyone can make a judgement on how good he is. Anyone who comes out and says Primus has no idea tactically etc. etc. IMO is just full of wank. Sure you can say "SALTER AND PETTIGREW ARE FORWARDS NOT A BACKMEN" but then who would we have played as our key backman this week. Maybe Surjan and Motlop? (I will add that I thought Pettigrew was very good in the first term - all I saw)

To copy gopower (somewhat).

I can handle people complaining that players are being played out of position.

I can handle people complaining that players aren't being selected.

I can handle people complaining that players ARE being selected.

I can handle people complaining that our list is the worst ever.

I can handle people complaining about the players lack of heart or effort.

What I cannot handle is people saying that our coach is an idiot and way out of his depth because they think their opinion is holy. It just shits me up the wall. PARTICULARLY when one of these people is a guy who suggests regularly that we delist players like Justin Westhoff and Danyle Pearce.

Either way I'm not going to lose sleep over it. What I do lose sleep over is how ****ing bad we are at the moment, and whether we will get better. For me it still remains to be seen, and anyone who says they know otherwise is full of it.

Sorry to get OT there tealpower, but I just kinda wanted to say that. As for your point about needing a mentor, I don't think Matty does. I think he needs some assistants simply because he can't be everywhere at once, but if he can't handle the players on his own IMO he isn't the right man for the job.

 

[tribey]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I think what we have seen this year is that if you pick players on anything other than form, you are going to get in trouble.

Primus with his youth policy has overcorrected for Choco's undying faith in senior players.

We thought that 119 damaged our players, well a new group of players has lived that half a dozen times this year.

If we get rid of 11-12 players at the end of the year I'd like 3-5 new players to be the cream of the VFL/SANFL/WAFL competition. Men who know how to play the game. Because what we have at the moment is boys who stop playing as soon as the opposition ices the game.

The other thing is, how the flying f*** can you implement regime change when thanks to weird timing of contracts and our financial situation we're left with philosophies from then previous era of failure.

We sack Williams for being no longer good enough for the club - which was fair enough - but leave everyone else around him there. Laidley, Cripps, Primus, Rohde, Falloon.

It is the sort of stupid shit South Adelaide would do.

Cut the hangnail and leave the withered hand.

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

The other thing is, how the flying f*** can you implement regime change when thanks to weird timing of contracts and our financial situation we're left with philosophies from then previous era of failure.

We sack Williams for being no longer good enough for the club - which was fair enough - but leave everyone else around him there. Laidley, Cripps, Primus, Rohde, Falloon.

It is the sort of stupid shit South Adelaide would do.

Cut the hangnail and leave the withered hand.

Yep - imagine if Collingwood had a bad season and had underperforming footy department staff still on contract - would they sack them? Yes of course, because they have the control and the finances to do it - they do not have to answer to a governing body or seek permission from them.

 

[PatientMental]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

At the end of the year we need
Duncanson out.
Hayman already out.
Rodhe out.
Laidley out.
Cripps out.
Falloon out.

Mcmillan back to stats.
Primus to actually move into the coaching seat.

 

[tealpower]

Re: Port v Collingwood Gameday Thread

I agree that as a group we have seen the players attempt to play Matty's gameplan, and I definitely accept that it hasn't been pretty. I more think (and maybe it's just recursive optimism) now that we need to see those players changed, rather than just giving them time to try and implement the gameplan (though I strongly believe that a playing group needs a lot of games together before they really gel - hopefully it won't take 8 years.) Which to me means that this off season will define our next 2 or 3 years. If we can land a couple of big trades, set up a good coaching box, and delist anyone who isn't good enough I will have a lot of faith in the club. If we have our own version of crazy vossy, I will know that we are ****ed for the time being.

As far as Matty's coaching is concerned regarding gameplan though (and i may be contradicting myself here) I don't quite think anyone can make a judgement on how good he is. Anyone who comes out and says Primus has no idea tactically etc. etc. IMO is just full of wank. Sure you can say "SALTER AND PETTIGREW ARE FORWARDS NOT A BACKMEN" but then who would we have played as our key backman this week. Maybe Surjan and Motlop? (I will add that I thought Pettigrew was very good in the first term - all I saw)

To copy gopower (somewhat).

I can handle people complaining that players are being played out of position.

I can handle people complaining that players aren't being selected.

I can handle people complaining that players ARE being selected.

I can handle people complaining that our list is the worst ever.

I can handle people complaining about the players lack of heart or effort.

What I cannot handle is people saying that our coach is an idiot and way out of his depth because they think their opinion is holy. It just shits me up the wall. PARTICULARLY when one of these people is a guy who suggests regularly that we delist players like Justin Westhoff and Danyle Pearce.

Either way I'm not going to lose sleep over it. What I do lose sleep over is how ****ing bad we are at the moment, and whether we will get better. For me it still remains to be seen, and anyone who says they know otherwise is full of it.

Sorry to get OT there tealpower, but I just kinda wanted to say that. As for your point about needing a mentor, I don't think Matty does. I think he needs some assistants simply because he can't be everywhere at once, but if he can't handle the players on his own IMO he isn't the right man for the job.

You've addressed a myriad of reasons as to why Matthew Primus needs a mentor and better assistant coaches Lurk3r. I think you'll realize that after some reflection on your post.

You make some prudent points, which is encouraging to read for a change.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The other thing is, how the flying f*** can you implement regime change when thanks to weird timing of contracts and our financial situation we're left with philosophies from then previous era of failure.

We sack Williams for being no longer good enough for the club - which was fair enough - but leave everyone else around him there. Laidley, Cripps, Primus, Rohde, Falloon.

It is the sort of stupid shit South Adelaide would do.

Cut the hangnail and leave the withered hand.

While I was happy enough with the Primus appointment, you'd think if we'd brought in an outsider they would have cleared out the coaching staff.

This offseason is absolutely vital for Primus in terms of moving people on, both from the playing list and the coaching staff.

 

[Portia]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

And not sideways, out!

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

How many of these guys would have made a difference last night?

1. Brogan
2. Butcher
3. Carlile
4. Chaplin
5. Logan
6. Moore
7. D.Motlop
8. Newton
9. Phillips
10. Redden
11. Rodan
12. Schulz
13. P.Stewart
14. Surjan
15. Thomas
16. Young

How many will be making a difference in 12-24 months time?

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

How many of these guys would have made a difference last night?

1. Brogan
2. Butcher
3. Carlile
4. Chaplin
5. Logan
6. Moore
7. D.Motlop
8. Newton
9. Phillips
10. Redden
11. Rodan
12. Schulz
13. P.Stewart
14. Surjan
15. Thomas
16. Young

How many will be making a difference in 12-24 months time?

About half and about three-quarters.

 

[PortBrillance]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I hate Primus more than Choco, and I know what damage Choco did to our club from 2008-onwards.

Primus is a woeful coach, never rated him before and never will