Preview Qualifying Final - Sydney Swans vs GWS Giants

[Kbroome]

I can't argue if you think you've won a debate that I've not really engaged in. I wouldn't debate Parker vs Wicks as a direct comparison really, they are different types of players (which I distinctly remember saying around the time Parker came back). There are reasons, as I've given, as to why a part time mid might have higher numbers, and why stats are not always the full picture. And I've not called for Wicks to come back in since he was dropped...

Agree with most of the changes you mention, but I'd keep Campbell in for the QF, wouldn't bring in both Paps and Jmac in the same final.

Okay fair i can see the logic behind what your saying and will delete my previous message because it was out of touch. I don't agree with your thoughts of holding back Paps or JMac because this is the finals and they were during the season top 10 players in the side especially both of them are crucial for team structure.

 

[Bloods86]

Okay fair i can see the logic behind what your saying and will delete my previous message because it was out of touch. I don't agree with your thoughts of holding back Paps or JMac because this is the finals and they were during the season top 10 players in the side especially both of them are crucial for team structure.

Paps and Jmac are very important, Jmac was in career best form. But I just don't want two underdone guys back in for the same final. We struggled with other underdone players recently and in finals you'll get shown up if they're gassed by the 2nd half or not moving as well as normal.

 

[Bloods86]

Okay fair i can see the logic behind what your saying and will delete my previous message because it was out of touch. I don't agree with your thoughts of holding back Paps or JMac because this is the finals and they were during the season top 10 players in the side especially both of them are crucial for team structure.

Also, appreciate it. Can't deny I got a bit grumpy there with my watch the game vs stats jibe too, which I know you do as well. I do like stats a lot of the time.

 

[Kbroome]

Also, appreciate it. Can't deny I got a bit grumpy there with my watch the game vs stats jibe too, which I know you do as well. I do like stats a lot of the time.

Fair i may have gotten you confused with some other posters and didn't see your true point which although i don't completely agree with i can understand your thought process

 

[Bloods86]

i can understand your thought process

I feel like there should be a BigFooty badge for this. Sometimes anyway.

 

[kneecapper]

But how do you think most of the turnovers and the scores are created?

From what I've seen this season most of our turnovers occur at half-back or even our defensive 50 and players like Jmac, Gulden, Warner and Blakey punish them from there through the corridor with their speed and delivery. We've never relied as much on forward 50 pressure and your fixation on it now is a little strange tbh.

If the question is between Adams and Cleary it's a no-brainer for me: '22 taught us we need experienced heads out there in finals and Adams brings much more to the team than just tackle numbers. Our key players in the midfield and KPFs are still pretty young and need leadership and I thought that was one of the major reasons we recruited Adams in the first place, so why would we not use him accordingly?

 

[zyzzbruh]

So we want "pressure" yet Adams in the last 5 games has averaged 3.4 tackles and 14 pressure acts & Campbell has averaged 3.5 tackles and 14.2 pressure acts.

Campbell is going better with his DE but that is in large part due to his much lower CP%, and even last week Adams went at 82% DE.

Adams has much more experience than Campbell does, on top of that he has 3x the hardball and ground ball gets which will be critical in finals given the contested nature of it.

Adams style of play is more suited to the clinches of finals whereas Campbell is more suited to regular season.

You get a bit hung up on pure statistics without taking into context the role/style of the players you are comparing them to.

I agree whole heartedly that Adam's should be playing. But there is also absolutely 0 comparison to be made between his stats and Campbells.

Sometimes one single shepherd at an important moment can justify a players whole selection. There are multiple skills, attributes and nuances in our game that cannot be measured with numbers. Whether it's Parker, Wicks, Cleary or Papley, they're all going to bring a different set of attributes that have their own individual positive and negative impact on games. It's not a matter of one being clearly better, but rather choosing which one to use for a given matchup.

 

[caesar88]

From what I've seen this season most of our turnovers occur at half-back or even our defensive 50 and players like Jmac, Gulden, Warner and Blakey punish them from there through the corridor with their speed and delivery. We've never relied as much on forward 50 pressure and your fixation on it now is a little strange tbh.

If the question is between Adams and Cleary it's a no-brainer for me: '22 taught us we need experienced heads out there in finals and Adams brings much more to the team than just tackle numbers. Our key players in the midfield and KPFs are still pretty young and need leadership and I thought that was one of the major reasons we recruited Adams in the first place, so why would we not use him accordingly?

It's most definitely not a fixation on forward 50 pressure now. I've been fixated on it all year. I've never wavered that our forward 50 pressure, or lack thereof, is an area where we are weaker than other contenders and could get exploited by them, especially in finals where a front-half pressure game is so important.

 

[Bird Man]

Ticket tek crashed when me and mates were trying to get tickets. went to process payment and then chucked us at the back of the line of 3k people

 

[Bloods86]

From what I've seen this season most of our turnovers occur at half-back or even our defensive 50 and players like Jmac, Gulden, Warner and Blakey punish them from there through the corridor with their speed and delivery. We've never relied as much on forward 50 pressure and your fixation on it now is a little strange tbh.

If the question is between Adams and Cleary it's a no-brainer for me: '22 taught us we need experienced heads out there in finals and Adams brings much more to the team than just tackle numbers. Our key players in the midfield and KPFs are still pretty young and need leadership and I thought that was one of the major reasons we recruited Adams in the first place, so why would we not use him accordingly?

For me, it's because our turnover/pressure game in mids/HB has dropped partway through the season, and if we then can't keep the ball in our F50 or at least affect the rebound quality when it gets down there, then we're really exposed.

Fix both ideally, but they both impact each other.

 

[kneecapper]

It's most definitely not a fixation on forward 50 pressure now. I've been fixated on it all year. I've never wavered that our forward 50 pressure, or lack thereof, is an area where we are weaker than other contenders and could get exploited by them, especially in finals where a front-half pressure game is so important.

Well we've finished top of the table and have the highest score from stoppages and turnovers in the league so maybe your fixation been misplaced?

 

[anotherletdown]

I feel like there should be a BigFooty badge for this. Sometimes anyway.

If you go out on to the main board, it's generally worth a dislike, bitter hatred or thread ban

This club board is such a safe haven

 

[anotherletdown]

From what I've seen this season most of our turnovers occur at half-back or even our defensive 50 and players like Jmac, Gulden, Warner and Blakey punish them from there through the corridor with their speed and delivery. We've never relied as much on forward 50 pressure and your fixation on it now is a little strange tbh.

If the question is between Adams and Cleary it's a no-brainer for me: '22 taught us we need experienced heads out there in finals and Adams brings much more to the team than just tackle numbers. Our key players in the midfield and KPFs are still pretty young and need leadership and I thought that was one of the major reasons we recruited Adams in the first place, so why would we not use him accordingly?

I get the last point and I think that's correct, but I can also see a point in the not too distant future where he gets swamped by the talent we have. Even with his experience, he's on thin-ish ice right now.

If Sheldrick had had a clean run this year, it would have been interesting to see where things ended up.

 

[kneecapper]

For me, it's because our turnover/pressure game in mids/HB has dropped partway through the season, and if we then can't keep the ball in our F50 or at least affect the rebound quality when it gets down there, then we're really exposed.

Fix both ideally, but they both impact each other.

There's that but also our stars in the midfield and half-back have also had some really putrid patches offensively and that problem was exacerbated by the loss of Jmac. We look much, much better when Blakey isn't shanking every second kick and Chad isn't running in circles trying to fend off the entire world. Even Gulden's normally composed and silky delivery was sorely lacking during the slump. Heeney looked sore and tired from carrying the midfield on his shoulders. Combine that with a few tight, demoralising losses and you might go some way to explaining performance against Port.

For me the problem during the last six weeks was our key players, not our fringe players, were badly out of form and not punishing the opposition due to their poor execution of skills. Whether this was a physical or mental issue only those inside the four walls of the club will know. All I know is that this has felt like a very bloody long season as a spectator, I can't imagine how tough it has been for the players.

I've seen glimmers of hope in the last few weeks that some of that touch is back. As impressive as Cleary has been, I think people are over assuming his impact on our recent result compared to the much more substantive shift above.

 

[caesar88]

Well we've finished top of the table and have the highest score from stoppages and turnovers in the league so maybe your fixation been misplaced?

Built largely on footy played between March & June. September tends to be about pressure and the contest.

I think against the best teams and the best defensive structures, it's going to be harder than ever to move the ball from the back half as we did earlier this year, especially if they cut off the corridor, force us long down the line etc., as all the good teams have done to us lately.

You brought up the 2022 GF, but surely that game just confirmed how difficult it is to transition from end to end against a quality team who are owning territory and possession? If our pressure and contested work was better, they wouldn't have owned territory and possession so much in the first place.

Having lots of flashy, attacking players isn't going to cut it against the best teams in the games that matter most in my opinion.

 

[kneecapper]

Built largely on footy played between March & June. September tends to be about pressure and the contest.

I think against the best teams and the best defensive structures, it's going to be harder than ever to move the ball from the back half as we did earlier this year, especially if they cut off the corridor, force us long down the line etc., as all the good teams have done to us lately.

You brought up the 2022 GF, but surely that game just confirmed how difficult it is to transition from end to end against a quality team who are owning territory and possession? If our pressure and contested work was better, they wouldn't have owned territory and possession so much in the first place.

Having lots of flashy, attacking players isn't going to cut it against the best teams in the games that matter most in my opinion.

Are you saying Adams is flashy and attacking?

For me '22 was lost between the ears by a younger than average team who went to water under the pressure of finals footy. The solution to that isn't to double down and play teenagers over 220+ game veterans.

 

[caesar88]

Are you saying Adams is flashy and attacking?

For me '22 was lost between the ears by a younger than average team who went to water under the pressure of finals footy. The solution to that isn't to double down and play teenagers over 220+ game veterans.

No? Nowhere have I suggested dropping Adams?

I'm advocating for Adams to play and maybe even a Cleary, and one of our other runner/flanker outside types be dropped instead.

I really think we have one too many lighter outside types not excellent in applying pressure. It'd be one of those I'd be looking at before guys who have shown they can bring good pressure.

 

[mattpolo8]

Ticket tek crashed when me and mates were trying to get tickets. went to process payment and then chucked us at the back of the line of 3k people

its trying to tell you something. enjoy your holidays.

 

[Tedeski]

I actually think it’s the greatest sacrifice we fans can make for our club.

We just know that if we book stuff in September the Swans are gonna make the finals.

So we book stuff in September and our beloved Swans make the finals. Mission accomplished.

I go a step further.
I spend $20 on a few bets for GWS to win any which way. I absolutely suck at betting. So it should go well for us.

 

[The King!]

I think there's a couple of things , one our middling form is overblown. Can't escape the 2 ratshit ones, and yes we did drift a bit, but all clubs have at times . Other teams also had to bust a nut to get here, we haven't.

Secondly we have been sort of stuck waiting a while and hopefully it turns out to be the case and we see the best back on. I know people will say you can't just flick a switch or whatever , I don't know guess there is no logic.

I just can't see us not winning by 10 goals.

 

[JackHiscoxWasFast]

I think there's a couple of things , one our middling form is overblown. Can't escape the 2 ratshit ones, and yes we did drift a bit, but all clubs have at times . Other teams also had to bust a nut to get here, we haven't.

Secondly we have been sort of stuck waiting a while and hopefully it turns out to be the case and we see the best back on. I know people will say you can't just flick a switch or whatever , I don't know guess there is no logic.

I just can't see us not winning by 10 goals.

The King! - he gets it.

Always has, always will.

 

[Maddo11]

For those on the drop Adams wagon, he brings a lot that often doesn't attract a stat but still benefits the younger mids. Watch this for example

 

[Maddo11]

Selection is less interesting to me than wondering who Toby Green is going to target with his general shit housery. I don't reckon it'll be Heeney I reckon he'll go after Warner and try and get Warner to fight back and get sucked into instead of playing the ball.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Are you saying Adams is flashy and attacking?

For me '22 was lost between the ears by a younger than average team who went to water under the pressure of finals footy. The solution to that isn't to double down and play teenagers over 220+ game veterans.

Seventeen players from the 2022 GF are still with us and have had two more seasons since then. Do we even have any teenagers anymore?

 

[Swan_Lifer]

For me, it's about the club, and btw, the legacy of our beloved Grand Uncle Horace.

I think if we beat GWS, the flag is there for us in season 2024.

One club, two cities, I hope that will be the celebration.