Quarter of a century without Fitzroy: Is the AFL better or worse off?

[ben_lion_lol]

Lol imagine losing the revenue generated by the big 4 clubs who would start a new league the next day in order to have 500 people watch a combined Melbourne team massacre the Brisbane bears

there would not be a brisbane bears or a melbourne club, it be victoria, queensland, west australia, south australia, tassie, northern territory & nsw

 

[Kwality]

I really don't get the "too many teams in Melbourne" argument. Either you're saying you want to contract the league and have less teams, or move them interstate where they'd get less attendance, and less tv viewers. Like if you remove teams/move them, the supporters of those teams will just switch to a new team. The day the Dogs stop playing is the day I stop watching AFL.

Footy fans outside Vic have lived through losing their club playing at the highest level.
Love of the game played at its highest level won through, e.g the members of the West Coast Eagles.

 

[pz5151]

No they don't.

Fitzroy Football Club own the Fitzroy 'FFC' logo. The logo has been trademarked by the Club from 10th June 1998 until at least 10 Jun 2028.

Trademark: 764288.

Fitzroy Football Club can use their trademark on any clothing, footwear and headgear including football jumpers and socks, scarves, shirts, T-shirts, shorts and neckties that they merchandise, irespective of whether the AFL likes it or not.

Here's an example.

Glad you guys have done that. I think the AFL would stop it happening by just not awarding a licence to any team with a hint of Fitzroy identity though as they want to pretend the Brisbane Lions was a merger and not a takeover of assets

 

[Roylion]

Glad you guys have done that. I think the AFL would stop it happening by just not awarding a licence to any team with a hint of Fitzroy identity though as they want to pretend the Brisbane Lions was a merger and not a takeover of assets

Fitzroy will never be back in the AFL. They are forging their own identity in Melbourne operating as they started in 1883, an amateur team representing the Melbourne suburb of Fitzroy.

 

[Partridge]

Their problems started with Fitzroy having to leave the Brunswick Street Oval

Fitzroy Football Club left Brunswick Street Oval in 1966 because the ground facilities became unfit for VFL football and it had no power to fix said facilities.

Unfortunately it was the Fitzroy Cricket Club that controlled the ground...not the Football Club. While the local council refused to spend any money on the ground, the far wealthier Fitzroy Cricket Club also refused to spend any money.

Fitzroy Football Club paid the Fitzroy Cricket Club to use the ground and about a thousand cricket club members got into the ground for free every weekend in the football season to watch Fitzroy Football Club.

The football club proposed a number of initiatives to try and stay at the BSO which obviously was their heartland. They suggested that the Fitzroy Cricket Club and the Fitzroy Football Club form one club, which the cricket club rejected. (this happened at Carlton). An offer by Fitzroy Football Club to borrow $400,000 from the Fitzroy council to upgrade the ground was also rejected by the Cricket Club. The football club also wanted a forty year lease which was opposed by the Council, although the council had agreed to give them a 21 year lease with no funds for subsequent improvement, which the football club found unacceptable, given that the Cricket Club still controlled the ground.

Meanwhile of course prospective VFL players didn’t want to play for Fitzroy because of the poor facilities and often went to neighbouring clubs Carlton and Collingwood because of their better facilities and ground arrangements, and according to Billy Stephens, Carlton's and Collingwood's better ability to find them jobs from industry and other places located in their larger geographical area. Note that when Fitzroy was on or close to the bottom of the ladder in 1963-66, this co-incided with the worst disrepair of Brunswick Street in its history.

After the Brunswick Street football rooms were finally condemned by the local council health officer, which made them unusable, Fitzroy Football Club made a number of approaches to share grounds with Northcote and Preston in the VFA. But these came to nothing.

Fitzroy would have moved to the Junction Oval for the 1967 season where the St Kilda Cricket Club wanted them as a tenant, but a large number of St Kilda Cricket Club members and supporters opposed the move and it was quashed. Fitzroy instead had no choice but to go to Princes Park instead for the 1967, 1968 and 1969 seasons, when it finally negotiated a successful move to the Junction Oval for the 1970 season.

Interestingly in 1969 when the Fitzroy City Council heard that Fitzroy were set to leave Princes Park, they made an approach to the Fitzroy to return to the Brunswick Street Oval. Fitzroy Football Club agreed to return if ground works, including extensive improvements to the outer were carried out and new player rooms and public toilets were built. Unfortunately no agreement could be reached between the Council, the Cricket Club and the Football Club over what ground improvements were needed.

Fitzroy eventually moved to the Junction Oval from Princes Park because they were essentially the poor relation in the Princes Park arrangement. At the Junction Oval Fitzroy got a third of the car-parking money for the first ten years and received non-repayable loan from the Albert Park Trust to spend on the Junction Oval to upgrade it to a VFL standard ground. The Junction Oval had a great surface, and a great Fitzroy atmosphere for home games. Certainly it became a very Fitzroy home ground and Fitzroy became well entrenched in the fourteen seasons they spent there.

At the Junction Oval there was a real sense of Fitzroy community, even though it was in St Kilda. It was our ground, one we shared with no-one else. It was a superb ground to play on, especially after the mud-heap of Brunswick Oval. I never actually saw a VFL match at the Brunswick Oval, but there are plenty of stories of how much of a mud-slog it was. Standing in front of the Kevin Murray Stand at the Junction Oval surrounded by thousands of Fitzroy people at a game was a fantastic experience. One that was certainly not replicated at Victoria Park and Princes Park. Fitzroy players such as Paul Roos concur.

By 1984 the VFL was instigating ground rationalisation where clubs had to either share a ground or be solely entrenched at their ground if the facilities were good enough. League policy was that clubs either had to share grounds so that costs and money would be shared more evenly. Richmond went from Punt Road to the MCG, North went from Arden Street to the MCG. Hawthorn and St Kilda went to Waverley. Essendon also had to leave Windy Hill. Fitzroy were forced to leave the Junction Oval because it was considered by the VFL that the facilities were not good enough - for example not enough seating for patrons.

Fitzroy argued unsuccessfully that their facilties were good enough. Paul Roos in retrospect considers that Fitzroy being forced to leave the Junction Oval hurt Fitzroy's identity, as well hurt the club financially and was the beginning of the end. Fitzroy decided to go to Victoria Park for the next two seasons because the ground was in Fitzroy's geographical area, as was Princes Park from '87-'93. Neither move was financially beneficial, but as Fitzroy had been refused a move to Waverley and the MCG had enough clubs, it was all that was on offer.

In the case of Victoria Park (1985, 1986) and Princes Park (1987-1993), Fitzroy made little to no money from either ground. Carlton's screwing of Fitzroy in relation to Fitzroy's tenancy of Princes Park from 1987-1993, forced the club to look for a better ground deal, despite the opposition of Fitzroy players and fans, who would have preferred to stay at Princes Park. Carlton even sent Fitzroy a bill in 1992 for the use of Princes Park, which meant that Fitzroy had made no money whatsoever from the use of its home ground that year.

Not only that, in 1992-3 in terms of ground rationalisation, Hawthorn was assisted with its' move to Waverley by the AFL agreeing to play 22 games per year at Princes Park per year, regardless of whether Fitzroy played there or not.

This decision had three effects:
1) Carlton benefited because they didn't have to enter into any tenancy agreement with any club, because the AFL was going to schedule matches there anyway.
2) Hawthorn benefited because they moved their home ground to the population centre of Melbourne along with the Saints.
3) Fitzroy, which was in the throes of attempting to negotiate a better deal with Carlton (i.e. Ian Collins) for their next tenancy agreement, was left with no bargaining power. In 1993 they played at Princes Park without a tenancy agreement with Carlton, after making no money the year before from home ground revenue.

Apart from Carlton, the catalyst for Fitzroy moving to the Western Oval is that the AFL also threatened to sue Fitzroy for $250,000 that had been paid to Fitzroy by CUB as part of a club sponsorship, which included selling CUB's product in the Fitzroy Club Hotel. CUB was the AFL's sponsor and the AFL thought they should have received the money instead of Fitzroy. This was despite the fact that CUB had been a minor sponsor of Fitzroy for over ten years previously.

The AFL even threatened to reduce the dividend to other clubs by the amount Fitzroy received. As such the Lions had to consider a better financial deal at the Western Oval, which in turn alienated some supporters and players. That included Footscray loaning Fitzroy the $250,000 demanded by the AFL. Alistair Lynch later said that Fitzroy's forced move to the Western Oval was the major reason why he decided to leave Fitzroy and sign with the Bears. Broderick, Gale, Elliott and Dundas followed Lynch shortly after. Robert Shaw the Fitzroy coach lamented at the time that he'd just lost his next three club captains. Fitzroy fans generally disliked the Western Oval as much of the Fitzroy support base was the inner city and their former recruiting zone in the eastern suburbs centered around Bulleen-Doncaster.

In the mid-nineties, Fitzroy was actually planning a return to the Brunswick Street Oval as their training and admin base. This had been approved by the Fitzroy Council and the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, but needed $250,000 to removate the Grandstand and build a modern gym over the community rooms.

That's a great summary. Thanks very much for putting it together.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Still too many teams in Melbourne

 

[JimmyBC]

Still too many teams in Melbourne

Yep unfortunately a state league morphing into a national competition leaves you with this ridiculous situation.

 

[Mayes2Gray]

Probably true, but it has come at a high price. The game is also only ‘sorta‘ NationaL, being distorted by too many Melbourne based Clubs and insufficient in other States.

Fitzroy paid a terrible price as did my mob, South Melbourne. Both the SA and WA comps are pale shadows of what they once were. The VFA here has also gone, swallowed somehow by the gaping maw of the AFL. Less about the National comp and more about AFL, country footy has also paid a high price.

Sticking to 18 teams but a National redistribution is the way to go. As well as Tassie, both WA and SA would easily accommodate a third team. It would also maximise use of existing infrastructure at Optus and AO.

This means reducing the Melbourne based teams by three. The candidates are obvious.

Carton, Richmond, Essendon?

 

[Atomboy]

Still too many teams in Melbourne

Too many teams for what ?

 

[geoffhop]

Their problems started with Fitzroy having to leave the Brunswick Street Oval

Fitzroy Football Club left Brunswick Street Oval in 1966 because the ground facilities became unfit for VFL football and it had no power to fix said facilities.

Unfortunately it was the Fitzroy Cricket Club that controlled the ground...not the Football Club. While the local council refused to spend any money on the ground, the far wealthier Fitzroy Cricket Club also refused to spend any money.

Fitzroy Football Club paid the Fitzroy Cricket Club to use the ground and about a thousand cricket club members got into the ground for free every weekend in the football season to watch Fitzroy Football Club.

The football club proposed a number of initiatives to try and stay at the BSO which obviously was their heartland. They suggested that the Fitzroy Cricket Club and the Fitzroy Football Club form one club, which the cricket club rejected. (this happened at Carlton). An offer by Fitzroy Football Club to borrow $400,000 from the Fitzroy council to upgrade the ground was also rejected by the Cricket Club. The football club also wanted a forty year lease which was opposed by the Council, although the council had agreed to give them a 21 year lease with no funds for subsequent improvement, which the football club found unacceptable, given that the Cricket Club still controlled the ground.

Meanwhile of course prospective VFL players didn’t want to play for Fitzroy because of the poor facilities and often went to neighbouring clubs Carlton and Collingwood because of their better facilities and ground arrangements, and according to Billy Stephens, Carlton's and Collingwood's better ability to find them jobs from industry and other places located in their larger geographical area. Note that when Fitzroy was on or close to the bottom of the ladder in 1963-66, this co-incided with the worst disrepair of Brunswick Street in its history.

After the Brunswick Street football rooms were finally condemned by the local council health officer, which made them unusable, Fitzroy Football Club made a number of approaches to share grounds with Northcote and Preston in the VFA. But these came to nothing.

Fitzroy would have moved to the Junction Oval for the 1967 season where the St Kilda Cricket Club wanted them as a tenant, but a large number of St Kilda Cricket Club members and supporters opposed the move and it was quashed. Fitzroy instead had no choice but to go to Princes Park instead for the 1967, 1968 and 1969 seasons, when it finally negotiated a successful move to the Junction Oval for the 1970 season.

Interestingly in 1969 when the Fitzroy City Council heard that Fitzroy were set to leave Princes Park, they made an approach to the Fitzroy to return to the Brunswick Street Oval. Fitzroy Football Club agreed to return if ground works, including extensive improvements to the outer were carried out and new player rooms and public toilets were built. Unfortunately no agreement could be reached between the Council, the Cricket Club and the Football Club over what ground improvements were needed.

Fitzroy eventually moved to the Junction Oval from Princes Park because they were essentially the poor relation in the Princes Park arrangement. At the Junction Oval Fitzroy got a third of the car-parking money for the first ten years and received non-repayable loan from the Albert Park Trust to spend on the Junction Oval to upgrade it to a VFL standard ground. The Junction Oval had a great surface, and a great Fitzroy atmosphere for home games. Certainly it became a very Fitzroy home ground and Fitzroy became well entrenched in the fourteen seasons they spent there.

At the Junction Oval there was a real sense of Fitzroy community, even though it was in St Kilda. It was our ground, one we shared with no-one else. It was a superb ground to play on, especially after the mud-heap of Brunswick Oval. I never actually saw a VFL match at the Brunswick Oval, but there are plenty of stories of how much of a mud-slog it was. Standing in front of the Kevin Murray Stand at the Junction Oval surrounded by thousands of Fitzroy people at a game was a fantastic experience. One that was certainly not replicated at Victoria Park and Princes Park. Fitzroy players such as Paul Roos concur.

By 1984 the VFL was instigating ground rationalisation where clubs had to either share a ground or be solely entrenched at their ground if the facilities were good enough. League policy was that clubs either had to share grounds so that costs and money would be shared more evenly. Richmond went from Punt Road to the MCG, North went from Arden Street to the MCG. Hawthorn and St Kilda went to Waverley. Essendon also had to leave Windy Hill. Fitzroy were forced to leave the Junction Oval because it was considered by the VFL that the facilities were not good enough - for example not enough seating for patrons.

Fitzroy argued unsuccessfully that their facilties were good enough. Paul Roos in retrospect considers that Fitzroy being forced to leave the Junction Oval hurt Fitzroy's identity, as well hurt the club financially and was the beginning of the end. Fitzroy decided to go to Victoria Park for the next two seasons because the ground was in Fitzroy's geographical area, as was Princes Park from '87-'93. Neither move was financially beneficial, but as Fitzroy had been refused a move to Waverley and the MCG had enough clubs, it was all that was on offer.

In the case of Victoria Park (1985, 1986) and Princes Park (1987-1993), Fitzroy made little to no money from either ground. Carlton's screwing of Fitzroy in relation to Fitzroy's tenancy of Princes Park from 1987-1993, forced the club to look for a better ground deal, despite the opposition of Fitzroy players and fans, who would have preferred to stay at Princes Park. Carlton even sent Fitzroy a bill in 1992 for the use of Princes Park, which meant that Fitzroy had made no money whatsoever from the use of its home ground that year.

Not only that, in 1992-3 in terms of ground rationalisation, Hawthorn was assisted with its' move to Waverley by the AFL agreeing to play 22 games per year at Princes Park per year, regardless of whether Fitzroy played there or not.

This decision had three effects:
1) Carlton benefited because they didn't have to enter into any tenancy agreement with any club, because the AFL was going to schedule matches there anyway.
2) Hawthorn benefited because they moved their home ground to the population centre of Melbourne along with the Saints.
3) Fitzroy, which was in the throes of attempting to negotiate a better deal with Carlton (i.e. Ian Collins) for their next tenancy agreement, was left with no bargaining power. In 1993 they played at Princes Park without a tenancy agreement with Carlton, after making no money the year before from home ground revenue.

Apart from Carlton, the catalyst for Fitzroy moving to the Western Oval is that the AFL also threatened to sue Fitzroy for $250,000 that had been paid to Fitzroy by CUB as part of a club sponsorship, which included selling CUB's product in the Fitzroy Club Hotel. CUB was the AFL's sponsor and the AFL thought they should have received the money instead of Fitzroy. This was despite the fact that CUB had been a minor sponsor of Fitzroy for over ten years previously.

The AFL even threatened to reduce the dividend to other clubs by the amount Fitzroy received. As such the Lions had to consider a better financial deal at the Western Oval, which in turn alienated some supporters and players. That included Footscray loaning Fitzroy the $250,000 demanded by the AFL. Alistair Lynch later said that Fitzroy's forced move to the Western Oval was the major reason why he decided to leave Fitzroy and sign with the Bears. Broderick, Gale, Elliott and Dundas followed Lynch shortly after. Robert Shaw the Fitzroy coach lamented at the time that he'd just lost his next three club captains. Fitzroy fans generally disliked the Western Oval as much of the Fitzroy support base was the inner city and their former recruiting zone in the eastern suburbs centered around Bulleen-Doncaster.

In the mid-nineties, Fitzroy was actually planning a return to the Brunswick Street Oval as their training and admin base. This had been approved by the Fitzroy Council and the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, but needed $250,000 to removate the Grandstand and build a modern gym over the community rooms.

Thats a terrific summary, thank you Roylion

 

[Mayes2Gray]

If you could look past the characterisation of your club as a faceless corporate construct, which it absolutely was upon purchase of a VFL licence with no history, no players and no culture, perhaps you'd see what I'm actually talking about. Clearly you didn't grow up having any allegiance or affiliation to a WAFL club and have resorted to childish ad hominem attacks accordingly.

There's a reason importing existing WAFL and SANFL sides would have been my preference that extend past their established history at that point. The fact that they're rooted in their respective communities for starters.

You don’t think the eagles are rooted into the very fabric of west Australian culture?

 

[Mayes2Gray]

I'm fully aware they would not continue in the same way. Hence why I talk about change is constant.

The problem for the sport, (not the AFL product) is the wonderful things that made the sport so great in first place has been eaten away at the fabric of that greatness of the sport to turn it more into a product of an entertaining/sport industry which is the thinking the AFL work with now and have for decades.
The people running the premier league and now the sport could have approached it in a way where they put the sport first but they have taken their eye off the ball as people running it are business first, sport second which is the real shame of it all. I think they just gone too much the product way to the detriment of the sport long term.

The previous wonderful and good followed leagues such as the WAFL, SANFL and VFA could have continued more along the lines of the VFA where they had part of the weekend closed off for them to still be followed properly and not just be feeder leagues only. The AFL could have done this all in a different way that was better for the sport itself rather than cannablise all these wonderful leagues too. I would have loved if it had gone a different direction where AFL was run Thursday night to Saturday night for the elite level and the AFL round over and Sunday was free to focus on the state leagues. Footy fans could follow both that love the game deeply. I used to follow our reserves team, senior team, play junior footy Sunday morning and then follow the VFA Sunday arvo. That is essentially what I grew up seeing in Victoria until the encroachment into Sunday by the league with Sydney Swans every second Sunday and then Eagles and Bears later in the 80's. We could have had WAFL, SANFL and VFA and all the state leagues play their round on Sunday but nope this never came into their thinking at all for the sport itself. The AFL admin took it all and cannibalised everything because it was run like a business product first and not sport first. We are where we are because of this. All the richness of what those leagues once were is basically gone and now just feeder leagues for the product and the sport has lost a lot culturally because of this. The AFL product lives on and will continue to be well run as a business in the sporting/entertaining industry but it slowly is just becoming another sport in the vast industry and lose the uniqueness that made the game so great originally.

You really are an old man waves fist at cloud type.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Simple question that should render some interesting responses. Fitzroy were in the VFL/AFL competition for exactly 100 seasons and we've now gone just over 25 years without them in the league.

Is the league better or worse off for losing Fitzroy? Why/Why not?

It's not a simple question at all.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Fitzroy were my 2nd team and I have always had a big soft spot for them.

To answer you question though, it is a national game now and besides the AFL charity baskets most have to walk for themselves. Fitzroy unfortunately were struggling and were not seen as a risk worth carrying.

?

No club walks for themselves. What are you talking about?

Big clubs get marquee fixtures, which makes them bigger clubs.

Small clubs get cash handouts, courtesy of the big bucks generated by the AFL's 'big club's centric fixture.

If clubs were left to walk for themselves, the AFL would be a Suburban comp within a decade with probably about 6 teams in it. And it would be broke and shut down within another 5.


As for Fitzroy, I don't think the AFL could prop them up at the time..the way the AFL was structured meant that clubs actually largely were walking on their own. And as a result, most were screwed and out there forced to rattle tins and try to merge in order to survive.

So I don't think Fitzroy were viable. I don't think it was as strategic as it was necessary to be honest.
Clubs back then had to generate revenue to survive. They had a lot of expenses.

These days however the AFL provides the infrastructure mostly, provides the most commercially viable fixturing and provides the marketing mostly. In return, the clubs basically need to fill a timeslot to ensure that there as many games possible each week to sell to TV networks.

The more clubs, the more games. The more games, the more money that comes in.

If Fitzroy were around now, the AFL would absolutely prop them up.

 

[Coolangatta]

?

No club walks for themselves. What are you talking about?

Big clubs get marquee fixtures, which makes them bigger clubs.

Small clubs get cash handouts, courtesy of the big bucks generated by the AFL's 'big club's centric fixture.

If clubs were left to walk for themselves, the AFL would be a Suburban comp within a decade with probably about 6 teams in it. And it would be broke and shut down within another 5.


As for Fitzroy, I don't think the AFL could prop them up at the time..the way the AFL was structured meant that clubs actually largely were walking on their own. And as a result, most were screwed and out there forced to rattle tins and try to merge in order to survive.

So I don't think Fitzroy were viable. I don't think it was as strategic as it was necessary to be honest.
Clubs back then had to generate revenue to survive. They had a lot of expenses.

These days however the AFL provides the infrastructure mostly, provides the most commercially viable fixturing and provides the marketing mostly. In return, the clubs basically need to fill a timeslot to ensure that there as many games possible each week to sell to TV networks.

The more clubs, the more games. The more games, the more money that comes in.

If Fitzroy were around now, the AFL would absolutely prop them up.

Apparently Fitzroy tried to move to Canberra and the AFL blocked them. So they could have survived that way and then if the AFL wanted to they could have added Tassie and gone to 18 teams. Not sure what would’ve happened to GC and GWS if we already had 18 teams in the late 90s, though.

 

[Bjo187]

I wonder if Fitzroy could have folded, then been reintroduced as an expansion club in a new market 10 to 20 years later. Much like the nrl are doing with the n.s bears.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Apparently Fitzroy tried to move to Canberra and the AFL blocked them. So they could have survived that way and then if the AFL wanted to they could have added Tassie and gone to 18 teams. Not sure what would’ve happened to GC and GWS if we already had 18 teams in the late 90s, though.

I'm not expert, but back then I find it hard to imagine that a team could have rocked up in Canberra and survived.
Especially a low profile club that would not have had much, if any, support from the AFL.

 

[Fire]

Apparently Fitzroy tried to move to Canberra and the AFL blocked them. So they could have survived that way and then if the AFL wanted to they could have added Tassie and gone to 18 teams. Not sure what would’ve happened to GC and GWS if we already had 18 teams in the late 90s, though.

I was just a kid in this era so I am no expert, but my recallection and osmosis of the era is something like;

it would have been fantastic if the AFL had have moved Fitzroy to Canberra for 1997, right as the superleague war was starting. Had they done that, then the Roy fans would have had their whole team left to support, and Canberra would likely be firmly AFL territory these days. There is a decent chance the Raiders would have not come out the other end, and have been a weird little pub trivia question, like the Perth Reds.

However, the AFL of 1996 was not the AFL of 2024. It was a transitional period for the lague. They wern't on the brink of bankruptcy like they were a decade earlier, but they wouldn't come into real money until after Nine secured the rights several years later. They had a problem; Port Adelaide were set to enter the league, and with Sydney still touch and go, and the bears being an outright disaster, there was no chance they would expand to 17 teams as it was not tenable for them to either stay there, or go to 18. Especially in another developing market.

The AFL were looking to rationalize in Melbourne. They had gotten rid of South. They were trying to merge the Hawks and Demons, and one way or another, Fitzroy were on the way out. Once the North/Fitzroy merger was shot down, merging them with Brisbane was the only feasible option left on the table for them. The AFL wanted Fitzroy to move in the 80s. They eventually got what they wanted.

1996 was a crazy year for the AFL. Nothing like the Superleague of course; but it was probably the most tumultuous year in the competitions history (except maybe the war years). Had things gone a little bit differently, we could today have a competition with the Brisbane Bears, Melbourne Hawks and the North Fitzroy Kangaroos running around. And since that would have left them with 15 teams, it is also likely there would have been a third Perth team or Tasmania join in 98 or 99.

 

[Roylion]

As for Fitzroy, I don't think the AFL could prop them up at the time..

Fitzroy chairman Dyson Hore-Lacy said if they could have found another million dollars ($500,000 to be used to improve facilities in a move back to the Brunswick St Oval as their training and administrative base and $500,000 to pay players to improve their playing list), Fitzroy would not have sought a merger with North Melbourne.

Unfortunately every attempt to generate that revenue by Fitzroy was stymied by the AFL who wanted to keep financial pressure on Fitzroy, so that Port Adelaide's AFL entry in 1997 would still only keep the league at 16 teams.

Ironically one of the people working for Fitzroy's administrator Michael Brennan in 1996 on discharging Fitzroy's $2.7 million debt was the current CEO of the Brisbane Lions Greg Swann who publicly stated in August 2014 that Fitzroy could have 'easily been retained' in the AFL competition had there been the will by the AFL to do so.

The AFL had $12 million to spare in 1996 to give to clubs that merged, yet couldn't find $1 million to help Fitzroy.

 

[Roylion]

Apparently Fitzroy tried to move to Canberra

Well sort of.

In August 1995 Fitzroy looked at a possible partial relocation to Canberra by offering to play at least four and possibly up to seven home games in Canberra in the 1996 season with a few to possibly a full relocation later on.

The Club's application to play in Canberra had the support of 'AFL for Canberra' organisation, the Canberra Raiders, the Ainslee Football Club and the ACT chief minister who had offered for the ACT government to upgrade Bruce Stadium if there were two national teams (one was the Raiders) playing out of the stadium. When adding in corporate sponsorship, and ground rights at Bruce Stadium (which would have been upgraded), the projections showed Fitzroy would have made $1 million extra per season.

However the AFL knocked it back because they wanted to keep the number of clubs in the AFL at 16 (with Port Adelaide's imminent entry) by keeping the pressure on Fitzroy to merge. Fitzroy generating an extra $1 million a year would have seen them avoid considering a merger.

 

[Bjo187]

I was just a kid in this era so I am no expert, but my recallection and osmosis of the era is something like;

it would have been fantastic if the AFL had have moved Fitzroy to Canberra for 1997, right as the superleague war was starting. Had they done that, then the Roy fans would have had their whole team left to support, and Canberra would likely be firmly AFL territory these days. There is a decent chance the Raiders would have not come out the other end, and have been a weird little pub trivia question, like the Perth Reds.

However, the AFL of 1996 was not the AFL of 2024. It was a transitional period for the lague. They wern't on the brink of bankruptcy like they were a decade earlier, but they wouldn't come into real money until after Nine secured the rights several years later. They had a problem; Port Adelaide were set to enter the league, and with Sydney still touch and go, and the bears being an outright disaster, there was no chance they would expand to 17 teams as it was not tenable for them to either stay there, or go to 18. Especially in another developing market.

The AFL were looking to rationalize in Melbourne. They had gotten rid of Sydney. They were trying to merge the Hawks and Demons, and one way or another, Fitzroy were on the way out. Once the North/Fitzroy merger was shot down, merging them with Brisbane was the only feasible option left on the table for them. The AFL wanted Fitzroy to move in the 80s. They eventually got what they wanted.

1996 was a crazy year for the AFL. Nothing like the Superleague of course; but it was probably the most tumultuous year in the competitions history (except maybe the war years). Had things gone a little bit differently, we could today have a competition with the Brisbane Bears, Melbourne Hawks and the North Fitzroy Kangaroos running around. And since that would have left them with 15 teams, it is also likely there would have been a third Perth team or Tasmania join in 98 or 99.

Good analysis. I think that the afl will still move into Canberra as team 20 (the obvious choice) and be the dominant code there in over a decade or two anyway, but definitely some ground needlessly lost to rugby codes over the years.

 

[glengowan]

Return to the VFL of pre-1991, when each club had metro and country zones and junior and reserves teams, replacing the CTL. Add Fitzroy as the 10th team. The SANFL and WAFL still run this way. If North Melbourne can't afford to keep up in the AFL, return them to the VFL.

Create a national reserves league, top up players are U21 and remain affiliated with their state league club, returning full time if not drafted once they are over 21.

This keeps the state leagues and clubs relevant as pathways from juniors through to mature aged players, with more opportunities to those straight out of the U18 system to do an apprenticeship at an AFL club, while still maintaining a link with their junior club.

A national competition was always going to happen eventually, but no need for that competition to be all-conquering to the detriment of other leagues and clubs. The AFL should be elite and encourage established leagues and clubs to prosper and provide opportunities in football outside of the AFL.

To the question, the AFL is worse off without a club like Fitzroy in existence. Or any other clubs that have strong roots in their communities. And I do consider the AFL the guardian of the game of Australian Rules Football. Despite the independence of the SANFL and WAFL, the AFL still have the fait of those leagues and clubs very much in their hands and as part of the growth of the game, should be prioritising sustaining them, and a club like Fitzroy in strong state league competitions.

 

[JackFlash]

The sheer size of Austarlia and it's population makes a national football competition very difficult. The AFL needed a successful Brisbane team and the only way they could move forward with that was the Fitzroy takeover. A very unfortunate set of circumstances, but necessary. The destruction of WA, SA, VFA and Country football has also been the price to pay for it....!

 

[Roylion]

The sheer size of Austarlia and it's population makes a national football competition very difficult. The AFL needed a successful Brisbane team and the only way they could move forward with that was the Fitzroy takeover.

The Brisbane Bears had made finals in 1995 and 1996 (reaching a preliminary final in 1996). They were already on their way to being successful.

 

[JPetro83]

They should have moved North the Qld in 1987.. that way they would have kept their history (flags) etc like Sydney/South Melb did.. the "merger" was a takeover. in 1987 they should have played all their home games to Qld and gradually made the step for a full move to Qld. They were stupid.. the writing was on the wall.. they should have done what Souths did.