Quarter of a century without Fitzroy: Is the AFL better or worse off?

[JPetro83]

At the end of 1989... 4 clubs in the then VFL probably should have been made to become 2... i still cant believe the likes of Footscray, St Kilda, Fitzroy and North Melb survived that era. the "AFL" should have been a brand-new super league. A clean slate.. Not just a name change that kept everything Victorian from its records, awards and that stupid MCG contract.

 

[Roylion]

They should have moved North the Qld in 1987.. that way they would have kept their history (flags) etc like Sydney/South Melb did.. the "merger" was a takeover.

It was quite clear why they didn't. The Fitzroy board's preference was a merger with a Melbourne based club rather than a relocation interstate, because of the ability for Fitzroy supporters to watch the merged club on a regular basis in Melbourne, instead of just 4-6 times a year. They also hoped to retain the name 'Fitzroy' in any merger. That's what would have happened with the proposed "North Fitzroy Kangaroos".

in 1987 they should have played all their home games to Qld and gradually made the step for a full move to Qld.

Maybe they should have done the following instead.

• Melbourne-Fitzroy Football Club (trading as the "Melbourne Lions") 1986 and 1994 - playing in Melbourne jumper with gold Fitzroy Lion on front of jumper.
• Fitzroy Bulldogs 1989 - playing in Fitzroy jumper with two gold horizontal bars added
• North Fitzroy Kangaroos 1996 - a combined Fitzroy and North jumper in colours of both clubs (red gold, blue and white).

All came very close to happening.

They were stupid.. the writing was on the wall..

Easy to say in hindsight. Supposedly the writing was on the wall for a few other clubs as well. How many relocations have we had so far?

 

[JPetro83]

It was quite clear why they didn't. The Fitzroy board's preference was a merger with a Melbourne based club rather than a relocation interstate, because of the ability for Fitzroy supporters to watch the merged club on a regular basis in Melbourne, instead of just 4-6 times a year. They also hoped to retain the name 'Fitzroy' in any merger. That's what would have happened with the proposed "North Fitzroy Kangaroos".


Maybe they should have done the following instead.

• Melbourne Lions 1986 and 1994 - playing in Melbourne jumper with gold Fitzroy Lion on front of jumper.
• Fitzroy Bulldogs 1989 - playing in Fitzroy jumper with two gold horizontal bars added
• North Fitzroy Kangaroos 1996 - a combined Fitzroy and North jumper in colours of both clubs (red gold, blue and white).

All came very close to happening.



Easy to say in hindsight. Supposedly the writing was on the wall for a few other clubs as well. How many relocations have we had so far?

All good points. look i was only 13 when Fitzroy merged but i was at all those close crows v roys games at foioty park in the early 90s. i just wish for the Fitzroy fans that they still had their history etc...

 

[Roylion]

At the end of 1989... 4 clubs in the then VFL probably should have been made to become 2...

And how would you make them do that? The VFL (AFL) failed in their attempt to make Fitzroy and Footscray merge.

the "AFL" should have been a brand-new super league.

How was that going to happen?

 

[Roylion]

i just wish for the Fitzroy fans that they still had their history etc...

That history still exists in the VAFA where the very same Fitzroy Football Club (that once held an AFL licence) now plays.

 

[madmug]

I wonder if Fitzroy could have folded, then been reintroduced as an expansion club in a new market 10 to 20 years later. Much like the nrl are doing with the n.s bears.

I guess N.S have maintained their base through its leagues club & NSWRL team.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

At the end of 1989... 4 clubs in the then VFL probably should have been made to become 2... i still cant believe the likes of Footscray, St Kilda, Fitzroy and North Melb survived that era. the "AFL" should have been a brand-new super league. A clean slate.. Not just a name change that kept everything Victorian from its records, awards and that stupid MCG contract.

*As much as people like you want to incessantly put the boots into the smaller Victorian clubs and blame them for all the ills of the world, the super league proposal fell over because 2 of the Vic big 4 were broke as sh*t.

*if clubs like North, Stkilda and Footscray are so naturally terrible and worthless, why are they such a massive issue for someone who follows a glorified state side?

 

[JackFlash]

The Brisbane Bears had made finals in 1995 and 1996 (reaching a preliminary final in 1996). They were already on their way to being successful.

Moving forward meant Premierships, the AFL were not content with just finals appearances, they were np real threat. The AFL were looking for any good reason to offload Fitzroy, their papers had been stamped years earlier....

 

[MKMatty]

As someone that wants the impossible dream of less Melbourne Clubs and a more condensed grouping of teams (14-16 max) I think we are worse off for losing Fitzroy.

Ive often said that if I had my own choice and Fitzroy was still kicking in the AFL come the early 2000’s I would have chosen them as my club.

 

[Roylion]

Moving forward meant Premierships, the AFL were not content with just finals appearances, they were np real threat.

And how do you know that? They were a game and a half off top spot at the end of the 1996 home and away season.

The AFL were looking for any good reason to offload Fitzroy, their papers had been stamped years earlier....

Well...yes. It was official AFL policy to remove a small Melbourne club.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

?

No club walks for themselves. What are you talking about?

Big clubs get marquee fixtures, which makes them bigger clubs.

Small clubs get cash handouts, courtesy of the big bucks generated by the AFL's 'big club's centric fixture.

If clubs were left to walk for themselves, the AFL would be a Suburban comp within a decade with probably about 6 teams in it. And it would be broke and shut down within another 5.


As for Fitzroy, I don't think the AFL could prop them up at the time..the way the AFL was structured meant that clubs actually largely were walking on their own. And as a result, most were screwed and out there forced to rattle tins and try to merge in order to survive.

So I don't think Fitzroy were viable. I don't think it was as strategic as it was necessary to be honest.
Clubs back then had to generate revenue to survive. They had a lot of expenses.

These days however the AFL provides the infrastructure mostly, provides the most commercially viable fixturing and provides the marketing mostly. In return, the clubs basically need to fill a timeslot to ensure that there as many games possible each week to sell to TV networks.

The more clubs, the more games. The more games, the more money that comes in.

If Fitzroy were around now, the AFL would absolutely prop them up.

They aren’t around now!

I’d love them to be and as you said back then we couldn’t keep propping them up.

But I don’t deal in if’s.

 

[Roylion]

I’d love them to be and as you said back then we couldn’t keep propping them up.

When you say the AFL "couldn't keep propping them up", apart from the AFL dividend available to all clubs in 1996, how was the AFL propping Fitzroy up at all in comparison to other clubs?

The AFL had an operating surplus of $38.7 million in 1996 with each club having a distribution of $1.48 million. Fitzroy received a total of $1.603 million from the AFL in 1996, the lowest of any Victorian club except for the Dogs. Carlton for example received an extra $500,000 from the AFL in '96 to upgrade their facilities at Princes Park while since 1991 the AFL invested money into improving Geelong's, Footscray's and Collingwood's facilities.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Much better off without Fitzroy.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

When you say the AFL "couldn't keep propping them up", apart from the AFL dividend available to all clubs in 1996, how was the AFL propping Fitzroy up at all in cpmparison to other clubs?

The AFL had an operating surplus of $38.7 million in 1996 with each club having a distribution of $1.48 million. Fitzroy received a total of $1.603 million from the AFL in 1996, the lowest of any Victorian club except for the Dogs. Carlton for example received an extra $500,000 from the AFL in '96 to upgrade their facilities at Princes Park while since 1991 the AFL invested money into improving Geelong's, Footscray's and Collingwood's facilities.

The way I remember it was that in the VFL days home teams got a percentage of the gate takings. Unfortunately this didn’t help Fitzroy and when it became a national game the AFL were only going to invest money Into markets that expanded the game.

Roy I’m not happy about mate and the Roy’s were a scapegoat as far as I’m concerned.

Much better off without Fitzroy.

Rubbish.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Odd question, I don't think think of Fitzroy as ever having left. To me the Lions basically are also Fitzroy.

But if we're just talking as Fitzroy as a purely Victorian entity then no, they could well be in a drought longer than St Kilda if the merger didn't happen.

 

[ApplecrossWC]

Definitely worse off, now we are stuck with plastic clubs like Port Adelaide, West Coast and Freo

 

[joy division]

Definitely worse off, now we are stuck with plastic clubs like Port Adelaide, West Coast and Freo

GWS are the only ‘plastic’ club in the AFL and that’s an indictment on the AFL, not their fans.

 

[Partridge]

Much better off without Fitzroy.

We lost a foundation club with a proud and legitimate history, replaced since by 4 new teams (including Fremantle), only one of which (Port) has won a premiership, and one in Gold Coast has had over a decade, a gazillion dollars and endless draft picks thrown at it and is still no closer to any success.

But the AFL apparently had to get rid of Fitzroy? Yeah right.

Just about every other Victorian club had its moments where it was in severe financial trouble (South, Footscray, Richmond, Hawthorn, and Geelong off the top of my head), but Fitzroy's financial plight is always held up like it's unique.

 

[Roylion]

Just about every other Victorian club had its moments where it was in severe financial trouble (South, Footscray, Richmond, Hawthorn, and Geelong off the top of my head), but Fitzroy's financial plight is always held up like it's unique.

Fitzroy had a total debt of $2.7 million in 1996. $1.25 million of that was owed to one secured creditor, (Nauru Insurance Company) which was being serviced and wasn't due to be paid back until 2001.

Nauru only appointed an administrator to Fitzroy when they found out that the AFL was refusing to guarantee that Nauru (Fitzroy's only secured creditor) would be paid out from the merger monies that would have been paid to the proposed 'North Fitzroy Kangaroos'.

 

[Long Live HFC]

i only come to these threads for a Roylion education, yet always leave feeling depressed. what the AFL did to fitzroy is a disgrace and anyone who loves their team should never wish such an outcome on opposition fans.

 

[peetoo]

Hopeless club bulldogs are only bettered in premierships by west coast and sydney from outside Victoria in two decades

 

[TY24]

Definitely worse off, now we are stuck with plastic clubs like Port Adelaide, West Coast and Freo

Says the supporter of Handouts and Draft Concessions FC.

 

[Cmarsh]

Yes Fitzroy are no longer in the AFL as a seperate entity, but is there any doubt that it made footy in Queensland stronger?

Seems a big success compared to what the Brisbane Bears were.

 

[Mootsy]

Yes Fitzroy are no longer in the AFL as a seperate entity, but is there any doubt that it made footy in Queensland stronger?

Seems a big success compared to what the Brisbane Bears were.

100%

Hard for Fitzroy fans initially, but the name-sake still lives on in Brisbane and more resources and money, success can be and was utilised in Brisbane, so it was a perfect merger. Within no time they had already won 3 premierships.

 

[Roylion]

100%

Hard for Fitzroy fans initially, but the name-sake still lives on in Brisbane and more resources and money, success can be and was utilised in Brisbane, so it was a perfect merger.

Hardly a 'perfect merger'. It was a rebranding of the Brisbane Bears (who finished 3rd in 1996) with AFL owned IP and some pre-draft player concessions.