Autopsy Rd 3 Carlton v Essendon Post Match Discussion

[Juddernaut08]

Very difficult to ping them when their Dr. can say he was worried about the player's mental state & welfare and needed the time to assess him further.

Reckon it's more to do with having such a shit rule in the first place that allows that sort of thing to happen. All o fthe clubs will exploit it when they can.

Given all the events that have surrounded that club* in the last 3 years, I wouldn't trust a word that comes out of any of the medical/player support staff at Essendope*.

They have shown that they will say/do anything and blatantly lie if it will give their club an advantage.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Wish it had not been Yarran to be the one to risk suspension. Carrazzo should have done it.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Blues lose by 21.

Smashed them in the clearances, contested possessions, and more scoring shots.

Umpires were ordinary again.

Big story is we showed a lot of heart and belief once we were 5 goals down in the last which makes you wonder why we can't do that all the time.

I think this sums it up. Interestingly it adds to the new train of thought that clearances and contested ball aren't the bees knees that they used to be. Apparently now it's all about the loose ball. If you win the loose ball, you are more likely to win the game. Not sure if anyone else saw the report, but the stats said the team that won the loose ball, won about 75% of the time. Clearances and contested was only a tad over 50% from memory.
This just says to me that the team that wants the ball more will win. I haven't seen that level of enthusiasm from our players for the loose ball. That's just desire and effort and our guys currently don't have much of either.

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

I think this sums it up. Interestingly it adds to the new train of thought that clearances and contested ball aren't the bees knees that they used to be. Apparently now it's all about the loose ball. If you win the loose ball, you are more likely to win the game. Not sure if anyone else saw the report, but the stats said the team that won the loose ball, won about 75% of the time. Clearances and contested was only a tad over 50% from memory.
This just says to me that the team that wants the ball more will win. I haven't seen that level of enthusiasm from our players for the loose ball. That's just desire and effort and our guys currently don't have much of either.

I think we can all use stats to back our argument. In reality we matched them in a lot of areas and if we kicked 18.11 instead of 11.18 we would have won.

 

[gab213]

I think we can all use stats to back our argument. In reality we matched them in a lot of areas and if we kicked 18.11 instead of 11.18 we would have won.

Absolutely, people tend to love to over analyse everything these days, quite simply had we kicked straight we would have won. At the end of the day it's the only stat that really counts.


It's cost us for years now under different coaches, might say something about the players?

 

[Blue Pulse]

Geez, that is impressive.

Goddard is a campaigner but can certainly play and is a hardened veteran who would make many young players look very silly in the same situation.

Latest two Irishmen in Byrne and Sheehan seem to really have something.

Hardened- Brendan Goddard, um are you sure.

He took a dive when Gibbs went to bump him and then cried to the umpire that he was hit in the face and then had the gall to try and beat up Byrne in the goalsquare...campaigner of a veteran, i agree with

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I think we can all use stats to back our argument. In reality we matched them in a lot of areas and if we kicked 18.11 instead of 11.18 we would have won.

It's also very easy to look at an 11.18 scoreline and say if we kicked 18.11 we would have won. There's reasons why we kicked 11.18 instead of 18.11. Partly due to poor goal kicking, but poor entry into forward 50 is another one. Giving our forwards a genuine opportunity with quality delivery would be a good start. That comes from having players that are willing to run both ways. I would absolutely hate to be a forward for us at the moment. Getting canned by people saying that it's hard to know where our goals are going to come from, but not getting a fair crack at the footy.

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

It's also very easy to look at an 11.18 scoreline and say if we kicked 18.11 we would have won. There's reasons why we kicked 11.18 instead of 18.11. Partly due to poor goal kicking, but poor entry into forward 50 is another one. Giving our forwards a genuine opportunity with quality delivery would be a good start. That comes from having players that are willing to run both ways. I would absolutely hate to be a forward for us at the moment. Getting canned by people saying that it's hard to know where our goals are going to come from, but not getting a fair crack at the footy.

Like I just said you can cook the stats any way you want. We had the same amount of entries and more scoring shots. You can analyse that however you want and put the poor goal kicking down to poor I50 entries but in reality what you have stated above does not make much sense.

 

[blueboys4lyfe]

Yarran BOG

 

[choo]

Gibbs got off? I thought Goddard was dead.

 

[Jatz]

Gibbs got off? I thought Goddard was dead.

That's because Goddard told everyone he was dead.

I really dislike that moron.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Gibbs got off? I thought Goddard was dead.

Did he have a doctor's certificate?

 

[choo]

Did he have a doctor's certificate?

He did but it disintegrated

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Like I just said you can cook the stats any way you want. We had the same amount of entries and more scoring shots. You can analyse that however you want and put the poor goal kicking down to poor I50 entries but in reality what you have stated above does not make much sense.

So, rather than just trying to dismantle my post, why don't you add to the discussion? Do you think it's purely down to poor kicking, or could we be giving our forwards a better go at it? Find a leading target? Straighten it up through the corridor? Kick shorter instead of trying to bomb it to contests?

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

So, rather than just trying to dismantle my post, why don't you add to the discussion? Do you think it's purely down to poor kicking, or could we be giving our forwards a better go at it? Find a leading target? Straighten it up through the corridor? Kick shorter instead of trying to bomb it to contests?

I am no expert on modern day tactics of a football team. Unfortunately most of us who attend games aren't either. There was a very interesting discussion on SEN over the weekend with David King and he mentioned how the tactics of the modern game have come so far that it is largely out of reach to the average fan. He spoke about the Bulldogs (I think) playing a 4/2 style set up in the front half, from memory he meant 4 up front with 2 behind. He also suggested that in the war room on the Foxtel coverage they basically dumb it down so the average fan does not get too confused. I would actually love them to explain more of what is happening as many arm chair experts on here I would imagine have no idea apart from picking up some catch phrases.

My point is I cannot comment on what we do well and don't do well as I could not honestly pinpoint where it is going wrong for us.

All I know is on the weekend our kicking for goal was a major factor in us losing.

I know this does not answer your question but without understanding our tactics let alone the team we are playing it is very challenging.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

There was a very interesting discussion on SEN over the weekend with David King and he mentioned how the tactics of the modern game have come so far that it is largely out of reach to the average fan. He also suggested that in the war room on the Foxtel coverage they basically dumb it down so the average fan does not get too confused.

I reckon David King should join Gerard Whately in the Knobs Hall of Fame.

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

I reckon David King should join Gerard Whately in the Knobs Hall of Fame.

He may be a knob Robbo but my point is he does know his stuff when it comes to tactics of today's game and what they are doing. He made the point that being out of the game even 12 months now means you have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[Blue since 72]

So, rather than just trying to dismantle my post, why don't you add to the discussion? Do you think it's purely down to poor kicking, or could we be giving our forwards a better go at it? Find a leading target? Straighten it up through the corridor? Kick shorter instead of trying to bomb it to contests?

Not sure how footy wire define an effective disposal but I would hope it goes something like "the ball ends up in a team mates hands".

If the definition is something close to that then Hawthorn as an example have 220 more effective disposals than Carlton year to date. All the things you mention above would work but I'm really struggling to believe the current players (in the majority) actually have the kicking skills, either under pressure or not to do it.

If part of Mick's forward entry strategy is to hack it forward and or long bomb it he needs find both better readers of the play of the ball coming out of the centre (a hack forward seems to end up in the opposition's hands more often than not) and better contested marks (Levi aside). If it isn't he'd better be giving the players a right good bollocking because that's what they're currently doing.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

This may be off topic TL15

Norm Smith's brother Len is regarded as one of the first innovator's of the game. I think he coached Fitzroy and Richmond. He came up with ten rules about playing football. Go and have a look at them.

The basics of the game have not changed. The speed of the game is the greatest change. The need to be highly disciplined and organised in applying the rules of the team are paramount. If you stuff up because you're lazy, dumb or not concentrating the opposition take advantage in the blink of an eye.

You look at the game on Saturday. Carlton dominated in clearances and contested footy to such an extent you ask yourself "How do you lose with that sort of advantage?" Easy. We couldn't hit targets to take advantage. Essendon killed us in transition because they could hit targets. Their skill using the ball was more effective than Carlton. If we could use the ball at greater efficiency and kick more goals from set shots then we win. Skill and a lack of leg speed let us down not tactics.

David King and his opinion of the average fan

 

[gab213]

i'm convinced King comes up with all this convoluted garbage just to keep himself in a job.

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

i'm convinced King comes up with all this convoluted garbage just to keep himself in a job.

Look we can all hate David King but the fact remains when most of us are at the footy nowadays crapping on about how many taggers we have in the team we are barely scraping the surface. I stand by this comment that none of us really have any idea what clubs are doing tactically.

 

[gab213]

Look we can all hate David King but the fact remains when most of us are at the footy nowadays crapping on about how many taggers we have in the team we are barely scraping the surface. I stand by this comment that none of us really have any idea what clubs are doing tactically.

I agree but i would contend that King would have little idea himself, he invents new stats weekly, it keeps him employed. He would have no better idea than you or i what our club does tactically.

 

[Tony Lynn 15]

I agree but i would contend that King would have little idea himself, he invents new stats weekly, it keeps him employed. He would have no better idea than you or i what our club does tactically.

Sorry but that is rubbish. I too cannot stand David king as a person or commentator but having been an assistant coach and still having contact with many clubs he absolutely has more idea than you or I.

 

[blueboy25]

i'm convinced King comes up with all this convoluted garbage just to keep himself in a job.

Watching him in the "war room" over the weekend I was fearing for the buttons on his suit jacket, he looks like he is going to explode. He could have someone's eye out

 

[gab213]

Sorry but that is rubbish. I too cannot stand David king as a person or commentator but having been an assistant coach and still having contact with many clubs he absolutely has more idea than you or I.

Agree to disagree Tony, i don't hate him, i just value his judgement as much as i value that of the chief football writer at the Herald Sun.