Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

If you see NO campaigners ranting about communism, this explains where it originates from.

White supremacists are using an obscure 40-year-old documentary to split the Voice vote

An obscure 1980s documentary about the Indigenous land rights movement has become a clarion call for those opposing the Voice to Parliament. An ABC Investigations analysis has traced how a debunked conspiracy theory about communists was weaponised to divide voters on the referendum.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Crankyhawk]

That's true in cases where the politician merely endorses some proposition without arguing their case.

add in when the politician uses opinions based on what they want to argue and not on the facts of what the matter is
(ie the so called argument is of zero value). Yet dumb**** media (ABC radio talkback host) will still treat it as relevant because of the office that politician holds.

 

[Alfonz]

If you see NO campaigners ranting about communism, this explains where it originates from.

White supremacists are using an obscure 40-year-old documentary to split the Voice vote

An obscure 1980s documentary about the Indigenous land rights movement has become a clarion call for those opposing the Voice to Parliament. An ABC Investigations analysis has traced how a debunked conspiracy theory about communists was weaponised to divide voters on the referendum.

www.abc.net.au

I would think it primarily comes from the videos that surfaced with Thomas Mayo speaking at forums attached to a communist party where he seemed to be sympathetic towards "communist elders". Those videos have caused a lot of damage to the Yes campaign.

 

[Jabba73]

if the voice gets voted down then the government should respect that and not introduce a voice as it makes a mockery of democracy if they do (and was a risk that Albo knowingly took). However what they should do is start reforming the crap out of the Canberra bureaucracy to get more relevant indigenous input especially from regions not Canberrans who tick a box when applying for a job

(Same effect, different name and more local than Canberra)

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Dutton has already committed to another referendum to get recognition in the Constitution. He has also committed to establishing regional and local Voices.

The only difference is how those regional and local Voices get their message to the Federal Parliament who make the laws.

The referendum is asking for a permanent Voice dealing directly with the Parliament, Dutton is yet to work out that is what he will need for his proposed alternative.

The Parliament will decide how the Voice will work under both models, the only sticking point seems to be Dutton wants to be able to abolish it at will when expedient, the referendum asks for this option to be taken off the table. It can still be reformed, reconfigured, reset or recycled, it just can’t be removed altogether.

Gotta wonder why that is the only sticking point when everything Dutton says he will do, was clearly not done while he had 10 years in charge to get it done.

 

[Gralin]

Dutton has already committed to another referendum to get recognition in the Constitution. He has also committed to establishing regional and local Voices.

The only difference is how those regional and local Voices get their message to the Federal Parliament who make the laws.

The referendum is asking for a permanent Voice dealing directly with the Parliament, Dutton is yet to work out that is what he will need for his proposed alternative.

The Parliament will decide how the Voice will work under both models, the only sticking point seems to be Dutton wants to be able to abolish it at will when expedient, the referendum asks for this option to be taken off the table. It can still be reformed, reconfigured, reset or recycled, it just can’t be removed altogether.

Gotta wonder why that is the only sticking point when everything Dutton says he will do, was clearly not done while he had 10 years in charge to get it done.

He back tracked on that commitment 2 days later but it got way less media coverage of course

 

[checkraiseulite]

In the cases of Kamahl and Hammer they're good examples of people who've taken time to read the details and look at what is trying to be achieved by the Voice before coming to their conclusion. More people should be like them even if they don't reach the same end.

flip flopping from hard view to hard view on a complex issue after a couple of hours.

guy sounds like a moron regardless of which side he landed on.

 

[adogsfan5]

You have an obsession.

Obsession is a good word. Kinda like your obsession to hop on bigfooty and try and pick as many fights as possible.

“Hopefully you get some help”

 

[Jabba73]

He back tracked on that commitment 2 days later but it got way less media coverage of course

Yeah, probably because he realised he wants the same thing yet he can’t help but oppose anything he didn’t propose himself.

2 years ago there was bipartisan support, what changed?

 

[Gralin]

Yeah, probably because he realised he wants the same thing yet he can’t help but oppose anything he didn’t propose himself.

2 years ago there was bipartisan support, what changed?

It actually got put to a referendum.
Coalition was happy to support the idea of it, just not the reality

 

[Gralin]

But also Jabba73 the no campaign is just talking for headlines.

They'll happily contradict themselves because it's not about anything other than controlling the news cycle.

They just have to keep saying controversial stuff for the media to focus on because they know the media will focus on it ahead of anything sensible.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Obsession is a good word. Kinda like your obsession to hop on bigfooty and try and pick as many fights as possible.
Obsession and sad.

“Hopefully you get some help”

Is your pretend ignore list broken again?

 

[adogsfan5]

Is your pretend ignore list broken again?

I must have got distracted by your love triangle.

 

[Jabba73]

But also Jabba73 the no campaign is just talking for headlines.

They'll happily contradict themselves because it's not about anything other than controlling the news cycle.

They just have to keep saying controversial stuff for the media to focus on because they know the media will focus on it ahead of anything sensible.

Like the polar opposite reasons they put forward as reasons to vote no?

It doesn’t go far enough, vote no.
It goes too far, vote no.

It won’t change anything because it is toothless, vote no.
They will take your house and make you pay to live here, vote no.

If they cannot even agree on how the proposal falls short, why do they expect anyone to listen to them? Other than the tried and tested fearmongering of course.

 

[Sun Ra]

But also Jabba73 the no campaign is just talking for headlines.

They'll happily contradict themselves because it's not about anything other than controlling the news cycle.

They just have to keep saying controversial stuff for the media to focus on because they know the media will focus on it ahead of anything sensible.

Classic Trump playbook 101 stuff - flood the space/market with bull dust on a daily basis.
The media - like flies to sh!t are happy to oblige and in some cases are colluding in plain sight.

 

[Gralin]

Like the polar opposite reasons they put forward as reasons to vote no?

It doesn’t go far enough, vote no.
It goes too far, vote no.

It won’t change anything because it is toothless, vote no.
They will take your house and make you pay to live here, vote no.

If they cannot even agree on how the proposal falls short, why do they expect anyone to listen to them? Other than the tried and tested fearmongering of course.

a lot of people don't get past the headlines, the headlines are also what get repeated on radio and tv and social media

so the headlines have the most reach

people will dismiss stuff they don't agree with and focus on stuff they do

so the no campaign is just pushing it all to try and get as many people to agree as possible
they don't care why people agree

they dont care if people think they are dishonest

currently in this country more people already think politicians and governments are dishonest than honest

so them being seen as liars also helps their cause because it just reinforces not to trust politicians with this stuff

 

[Sun Ra]

a lot of people don't get past the headlines, the headlines are also what get repeated on radio and tv and social media

so the headlines have the most reach

people will dismiss stuff they don't agree with and focus on stuff they do

so the no campaign is just pushing it all to try and get as many people to agree as possible
they don't care why people agree

they dont care if people think they are dishonest

currently in this country more people already think politicians and governments are dishonest than honest

so them being seen as liars also helps their cause because it just reinforces not to trust politicians with this stuff

Like Morrison at Margaret Court's church in Perth telling the congregation not to trust the government,
and he should know, but to trust god instead.

 

[CM86]

 

[CM86]

Obsession is a good word. Kinda like your obsession to hop on bigfooty and try and pick as many fights as possible.

“Hopefully you get some help”

Yes, it's everyone else's fault, especially the Vic Premier.

No point in pausing to reflect on your positions... Just lash out.

 

[Mudguts12]

So he's basing his yes vote on an emotional response to the British supposed intention of genocide 300 years ago. Bodes well .

 

[adogsfan5]

Yes, it's everyone else's fault, especially the Vic Premier.

No point in pausing to reflect on your positions... Just lash out.

Wishing you all the best, hope you get the help you need.

 

[CM86]

So he's basing his yes vote on an emotional response to the British supposed intention of genocide 300 years ago. Bodes well .

No...

But also, why would you brush off his statement of extermination 'vermin'? ?

 

[CM86]

Wishing you all the best, hope you get the help you need.

Thank you.
And I wish you the same.
Be well.

 

[Gralin]

Peta Credlin and The Australian playing racist conspiracy bingo and chucking a picture of Dan Andrews in just for the obsessed vic cookers

 

[CM86]

Peta Credlin and The Australian playing racist conspiracy bingo and chucking a picture of Dan Andrews in just for the obsessed vic cookers

We've seen that fear-mongering messaging in this thread already.
It's all about testing the water to see what sticks, and then publishing it as 'news'.

For example, Power Raid has repeatedly pushed this rhetoric in this thread.

 

[Mudguts12]

No...

But also, why would you brush off his statement of extermination 'vermin'? ?

Good point. I guess inflammatory language and guilt tripping is now the go to at this point for an increasingly desperate narrative.
Kamahl is kind of an odd person to use though.