Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Roby]

They have to listen but they don't listen?
Doesn't sound like they have to listen then does it.

Are you sure they have to listen?

Has to be the most inane comment I've read on Bigfooty, well done Burge.

Maybe learning English would help.

Do they mean they "hear" but they don't listen?

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Could just vote yes then?

I've voted.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Its not news that some people vote twice:

Electoral Backgrounder: Enrolment fraud and multiple voting

www.aec.gov.au

Of course , its the other lot that is cheating ......

The overall number of actual multiple votes is miniscule, and has been found to overwhelmingly result from mental issues, eg confusion and forgetfulness.

 

[Roby]

i can see his point, many people want to see if this thing will work before fully committing to it. me i'm all for it, but i totally understand hesitancy in putting something in place without knowing if it will work.

People don't really understand how vaccines work, yet they still took the Covid vaccines, why?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The overall number of actual multiple votes is miniscule, and has been found to overwhelmingly result from mental issues, eg confusion and forgetfulness.

Apart from reasons you’ve listed people who multiple vote for devious reasons amaze me. Voting once can be a chore millions hate, risking imprisonment to do it more than once is nuts.

 

[Crankyhawk]

In my corporate life I was appointed to a State Government body. My employer (a top 50 ASX company) had donated to both sides of politics to get a seat at the table. There was a Union rep at the table,.

Whose union also likely donated cash too.
The problem as I see it is that everything comes out for those with the access.
Poor people have **** all access

 

[the_interloper]

Maybe a little off topic, an ABC report reflecting that social media is heavily saturated by the yes position. Yet the polls reflect a no vote as the favoured.

Surprise surprise, actually it's not, what may seem the 'true' narrative on social media doesn't reflect what's outside in the real world, pick your topic, but I find this largely the case.

Polls can sometimes also be misleading, hopefully this time the polls are wrong and social media actually is on point this time.

Will be interesting to see the numbers tomorrow night.

Well think about how many Yes bumper stickers, tshirts and signs in front yards you've seen, and how many Nos? And given the polls a lot are clearly voting No and shutting up about it, or maybe the Yes voters want to make sure everyone knows what they're voting.

 

[Kram]

What'd you reckon, Kram? You sceptical of the Voice?

It just sort of seems weak and pointless, I really don't see it doing much.

Again it couldn't hurt or it's better than nothing yeah sure that's a point that's why I wont put no, but it's hardly convincing isn't it?

Hard to not see it getting beaten comfortably anyway and the whole thing just being a waste of time and resources.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I have noticed that YES voters seem to be more social, more friendly than NO voters.
It makes sense that that translates across to social media.

That's a very wide brush you got there ghosty.

 

[tandino]

That's a very wide brush you got there ghosty.

You haven't noticed that Yes voters are made of sugar and spice and all things nice?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Well think about how many Yes bumper stickers, tshirts and signs in front yards you've seen, and how many Nos? And given the polls a lot are clearly voting No and shutting up about it, or maybe the Yes voters want to make sure everyone knows what they're voting.

I think this is where it lies, the Joe public no voter doesn't want to be demonized - even though backed by the polls. So it's hush hush.

Where as the yes voter has no or little fear of reprisal if they proudly display their yes posters and t-shirts. Not many dare oppose what is morally right.

Yet the norm on here and other social media, according to the abc report is 80 / 20 split in favour of yes. I'd think that's a pretty close reflection of the numbers in here. Don't think anyone could confidently argue that no voters outweigh yes voters in here.

Again, Joe public doesn't wanna rock the popular belief boat less they be demonized, so it's shut up.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You haven't noticed that Yes voters are made of sugar and spice and all things nice?

Yep every single one of them!

Except me of course, I've already voted yes, but I could certainly argue that many don't view me as such.

 

[phantom13]

The No vote is going to get up but no one wants to admit to being a no voter.

Doesn’t that say something?

We know it’s the wrong thing to do but also **** it.

 

[burge13]

The No vote is going to get up but no one wants to admit to being a no voter.

Doesn’t that say something?

We know it’s the wrong thing to do but also * it.

Perhaps they just don't want to deal with unreasonable and angry yes voters labeling them...

 

[phantom13]

Perhaps they just don't want to deal with unreasonable and angry yes voters labeling them...

Maybe, I’d say it’s more likely they know it’s a shit thing to do and don’t want to admit it.

 

[tandino]

I think this is where it lies, the Joe public no voter doesn't want to be demonized - even though backed by the polls. So it's hush hush.

Where as the yes voter has no or little fear of reprisal if they proudly display their yes posters and t-shirts. Not many dare oppose what is morally right.

Yet the norm on here and other social media, according to the abc report is 80 / 20 split in favour of yes. I'd think that's a pretty close reflection of the numbers in here. Don't think anyone could confidently argue that no voters outweigh yes voters in here.

Again, Joe public doesn't wanna rock the popular belief boat less they be demonized, so it's shut up.

Seems to rub against the popular narrative of social media being a den of iniquity.

 

[Kram]

The No vote is going to get up but no one wants to admit to being a no voter.

Doesn’t that say something?

We know it’s the wrong thing to do but also * it.

Nah not really.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The No vote is going to get up but no one wants to admit to being a no voter.

Doesn’t that say something?

We know it’s the wrong thing to do but also * it.

Yet for a myriad of reasons, the no voter believes their vote is the 'right thing to do'. From the intentionally hateful (one could you argue very much the minority), to the unintentionally ignorant to those who have genuine concern for whatever reason, yep, they're probably wrong, regardless they have genuine concern not mal intent.

You and I may not agree with their 'belief', none the less, we're in a democracy - they get to vote.

It's not as simple as 'coz no one wants to admit they're a no voter, they must be wrong' (if that's your implication), it's probably coz they don't wanna labeled and criticized.

This is a pattern of just about every social issue you could think of. MSM and social would have you believe the moral popular narrative is what the apparent opposite is 'in the real world'

In reality, for the same reason we have no voters that I've pointed out above, they don't wanna 'out' themselves coz they'll be labeled and demonized.

So the moral popular belief might not be popular at all.

This is not a criticism, merely an observation.

 

[phantom13]

Yet for a myriad of reasons, the no voter believes their vote is the 'right thing to do'. From the intentionally hateful (one could you argue very much the minority), to the unintentionally ignorant to those who have genuine concern for whatever reason, yep, they're probably wrong, regardless they have genuine concern not mal intent.

You and I may not agree with their 'belief', none the less, we're in a democracy - they get to vote.

It's not as simple as 'coz no one wants to admit they're a no voter, they must be wrong' (if that's your implication), it's probably coz they don't wanna labeled and criticized.

This is a pattern of just about every social issue you could think of. MSM and social would have you believe the moral popular narrative is what the apparent opposite is 'in the real world'

In reality, for the same reason we have no voters that I've pointed out above, they don't wanna 'out' themselves coz they'll be labeled and demonized.

So the moral popular belief might not be popular at all.

This is not a criticism, merely an observation.

I think if you’re voting no and you know you’ll be criticized for doing it and that’s enough to make you quiet about it then you know it’s wrong.

I don’t agree with the No voters here or anywhere but I can at least respect those willing to admit how they’re voting

 

[HairyO]

Could just vote yes then?

Except we arent voting for a piece of legislation. Legislation sets out all of the laws and powers and generally also the funding. This question is deliberately vague because Albo was too gutless to actually tell everyone what they are actually voting for. He didnt want to piss off people on the Left by it not going too far, and still managed to piss off people on the Right by them assuming it will go too far.

Also, I have just voted and did vote Yes. Its a great idea done atrociously by a political party that has always been terrible at Referenda.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

That's what the LNP want because they know that if there's a trial of more than 6 years they'll be able to tear it down when in office during that time. Or still throw enough mud at it to vote against it in referendum.

They brought down ATSIC, they'll bring down any indigenous organisation.

ATSIC was as corrupt as ****, it needed to go.

 

[Saint]

ATSIC was as corrupt as *, it needed to go.

It was fine until LNP gutted it, took away it's powers and responsibilities and then the corrupt/carpet-baggers set in. It was nowhere near as corrupt as the last LNP Govt.

That story is what the LNP (Howard) sold, but he'd opposed it for 10+ years (while it worked very well) and requisitioned audit after audit which found no corruption or problems. Then 5 years later, with Latham leading the ALP and two leftover idiots in charge of what was left of ATSIC, he was finally able to disband it. (He didn't consider the option of just re-structuring).

 

[tandino]

I think if you’re voting no and you know you’ll be criticized for doing it and that’s enough to make you quiet about it then you know it’s wrong.

They may feel that it's wrong to somebody else's standards, absolutely. That's enough to feel reassurance that they are making the right decision in the end.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think if you’re voting no and you know you’ll be criticized for doing it and that’s enough to make you quiet about it then you know it’s wrong.

I don’t agree with the No voters here or anywhere but I can at least respect those willing to admit how they’re voting

That is your view, many no voters will actually believe by voting no they're voting the right way.

Those no voters by and large aren't thinking to themselves 'this is wrong' they're thinking 'I don't wanna be criticized'. < That's a natural human reaction, not an admission to being wrong.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

The No vote is going to get up but no one wants to admit to being a no voter.

Doesn’t that say something?

We know it’s the wrong thing to do but also * it.

I have and you sooked up about it.

I vote no and Yes voters won't shut up about it.

You vote Yes and I don't care why, it's your vote and not mine.