Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

"But they have MPs to represent them"

What they want (remote teams for majority indigenous voters, purple is yes);
View attachment 1831710
What they get (biggest indigenous population but they're still a minority);
View attachment 1831712
Nah let's just keep the status quo hey

You can't just pick out an entire seat and extrapolate that into indigenous representation.

If you take Port Augusta for example, the representation of indigenous is still not a majority. Why not take a look at the indigenous communities like Fitzroy Crossing which overwhelmingly supported the YES vote.

 

[swingdog]

Lied, ran a fear mongering campaign...that's what they did very well. Their advertising campaigns were full scale political spin based on bullshit. Same words: Divisive, Risky, Faces legal challenges. None of those statements were backed up with any evidence. They just pandered to the ignorant. Many other right aligned people spread misinformation in the media/social media that were blatant lies.

This is how the Coalition is going to run going forward. Do anything and everything to win government.
Australians are scared, and the Coalition fed them that fear.


How can Labor possibly provide information to people who DO NOT want to listen, or to investigate. Listen to some of the people saying why they voted NO. It's because they couldn't be ****ed looking into the 5 minutes needed to gain an understanding of what the referendum was about.

Agree and they worked out social media was the way to do that because it's a communications channel built on conflict and reinforcing personal prejudices.

So, what should the YES campaign do now? That could be doing the next campaign differently or it could be looking at other avenues.

Complaining about the other side's tactics isn't getting them anywhere.

 

[Roby]

I live in a very progressive part of London that votes 70% Labour and voted 70% to Remain.

I have conversations daily with school parents and work colleagues about current affairs and, knowing I'm Australian, not a single person has asked about the Voice.

Most when they find out I'm Australian, talk glowingly about travelling there or wishing that they could go there one day.

No talk of us being an awful, racist country.

All my white supremacists friends say the same thing Stokey. Australia is not racist.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

This is such BS.

It's not difficult to get educated.

You're buying Dutton's lies by pushing this "inner city lefty" moronic crap. The Uluru statement and its requests is the best representation we've ever had from Indigenous people.

Educate me then champ.
How would a voice have improved the conditions in remote indigenous communities?
How would a voice have improved education levels of indigenous youth?

These are the things that matter, a voice does not address the actual issues.

The statement from the heart is not the voice

Fwiw, I did vote yes

 

[Roby]

Went book shopping in the city (Adelaide) today and saw a couple of people walking around with Australian flags with big beaming smiles on their dials. I don't know why, maybe I should have asked them.

I thought they weren't celebrating? Another lie from the RWNJ here

 

[Purple7x08_24]

All these 'we want more detail' and 'tell us how its going to work' is just vintage sealioning. No voters wanting to give the impression that they would vote for Voice if they had all these details, when deep down they were never going to. If the smoking gun that's going to flip you to the Yes side is based on how much people are going to get paid on the advisory committee, then you really aren't that interested in voting for it

Like I said earlier, it may not be incumbent on voters to do their own research and make their own minds up and expect the government to treat them like children by telling them everything up-front, but I would like to think at least most of our citizens are proactive enough to want to do some research for themselves. If everyone had this pathetic lazy "don't know, vote No" attitude, then no one would finish school or a university degree

I know from my current workplace, but people who want to avoid conflict, or avoid sharing their real motives will often hide behind "I don't know enough about it". On the one hand, it's ignorance and laziness, but it also shows racism. I know one guy at work who told me he didn't know enough about it, and I also know he's been openly racist and shared ridiculous comments about indigenous people in the past.

This is why I do not support referendums as a form of decision making on issues like this one. It should be introduced on merit. We've clearly seen how ignorant and racist people are on this issue.

 

[Roby]

Albanese should resign over this. Completely made a mess of it, has created more division and emboldened actual racists.
Got his messaging horribly wrong, awful execution.
Embarrassing that he couldn’t convince 50% of Australians that this change is a no brainer that is obviously positive.

Who's racist?

 

[Purple7x08_24]

Agree and they worked out social media was the way to do that because it's a communications channel built on conflict and reinforcing personal prejudices.

So, what should the YES campaign do now? That could be doing the next campaign differently or it could be looking at other avenues.

Complaining about the other side's tactics isn't getting them anywhere.

All I know, is Dutton is going to be the biggest grub in politics going forward. this is only the beginning. Labor could introduce housing support for the disabled and Dutton would find a way to discredit Labor.

 

[AvantGardener]

Victim mentality that the current avenues don't listen to them.

Minister for Transport and their department doesn't listen to people who drive the roads in my area
Minister for Racing hasn't delivered good results for harness racing
My local MP despite being Liberal MP historically good for business has burned local business groups on issues such as payroll tax

Everyone gets ignored.

Equal chance to representation for all.

 

[AvantGardener]

Referendums don't get up because of Bipartisan support. Referendums get bipartisan support and also get up because they are sound proposals.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

All my white supremacists friends say the same thing Stokey. Australia is not racist.

I asked a guy at work if he thought Indigenous Australians were better off since colonization and he agreed they were, and the ones that were alcoholics brought it on themselves.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I asked a guy at work if he thought Indigenous Australians were better off since colonization and he agreed they were, and the ones that were alcoholics brought it on themselves.

Would depend on your definition of “better off” of course

 

[Home Alone]

I live in a very progressive part of London that votes 70% Labour and voted 70% to Remain.

I have conversations daily with school parents and work colleagues about current affairs and, knowing I'm Australian, not a single person has asked about the Voice.

Most when they find out I'm Australian, talk glowingly about travelling there or wishing that they could go there one day.

No talk of us being an awful, racist country.

Any thoughts on international students choosing Australia as a place to acquire their education?

 

[Maddo11]

You can't just pick out an entire seat and extrapolate that into indigenous representation.

If you take Port Augusta for example, the representation of indigenous is still not a majority. Why not take a look at the indigenous communities like Fitzroy Crossing which overwhelmingly supported the YES vote.

I think we're in agreement and you've misunderstood my post?

 

[Jimi]

Educate me then champ.
How would a voice have improved the conditions in remote indigenous communities?
How would a voice have improved education levels of indigenous youth?

You don't think giving remote Indigenous communities a voice would empower them to improve their lot?

Direct from the Uluru Statement website

• It will make a difference to First Nations communities on the ground as a better-informed government will lead to better laws and policies. And better laws will improve the lives of First Nations Peoples.
  
  It will provide certainty, durability and stability so that First Nations communities can plan and build for the long term, protected from the changing winds of politics, ensuring better outcomes for First Nations peoples no matter who is in government.
  
  It will provide an opportunity for First Nations Peoples to have a seat at the table when laws and policies are being made for them, not at the end when they have little ability to influence the outcome.
  
  Taxpayer dollars will be directed to policies that work on the ground, not ones dreamed up in Canberra.
  
  It will embed more regional and remote community opinions in national decision making.
  
  If successful the Voice will have the mandate of the Australian people to be heard but ultimately the parliament will always have the final say.

 

[swingdog]

I know from my current workplace, but people who want to avoid conflict, or avoid sharing their real motives will often hide behind "I don't know enough about it". On the one hand, it's ignorance and laziness, but it also shows racism. I know one guy at work who told me he didn't know enough about it, and I also know he's been openly racist and shared ridiculous comments about indigenous people in the past.

This is why I do not support referendums as a form of decision making on issues like this one. It should be introduced on merit. We've clearly seen how ignorant and racist people are on this issue.

Agree - I work in climate change and would never think of putting that up as an issue for Australians to decide whether they want to do anything on it.

 

[swingdog]

All I know, is Dutton is going to be the biggest grub in politics going forward. this is only the beginning. Labor could introduce housing support for the disabled and Dutton would find a way to discredit Labor.

He's probably screwed politically.

This isn't going to win the Teal seats back. The danger is whether he can use outer suburban resentment and gin up culture war stuff into a coherent campaign. If the ALP is smart, they'll be working hard on those seats for the next 18 months.

 

[Gough]

I asked a guy at work if he thought Indigenous Australians were better off since colonization and he agreed they were, and the ones that were alcoholics brought it on themselves.

It's a whole different discussion but the sooner we treat addiction as a medical rather than criminal issue the better off we'll all be.

 

[Stokey]

All my white supremacists friends say the same thing Stokey. Australia is not racist.

Must suck living in a country you obviously hate.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

Just because 60% voted no doesn't mean you're on the right side of history.

40% are correct.

If we had a vote about vaccines mandates you've got the same outcome, maybe even higher than 60% voting No.

I'm sorry, but your just wrong, plain and simple.

Now respond by keep doubling down and showing your true colours.

To add to this:

Should abortion be legal?
Should we force birth control for women?

IF we had a referendum on issues like this, should Men have the right to vote?

Should we go nuclear?

Would the general public be educated enough to make an informed decision on this matter.

Policies are not always popular, but vast amounts of Australians would not be in a position to understand why.

The Brexit vote was a classic example of this. How do ordinary UK residents know the best economic outcomes for the country?

Suppose we had a referendum to give every working Australian a 200% pay increase. I can assure you it would get up but would that be in the best interests of the country?

 

[Captivating]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/australia-indigenous-voice-referendum-fails-1.6996380#:~:text=,would%20have%20created%20an%20advocacy

Australia rejects Voice referendum to recognise indigenous people in constitution

Saturday’s voice to parliament vote failed, with the defeat clear shortly after polls closed

www.irishtimes.com

Australian referendum to create an Indigenous advocacy committee to Parliament has failed

Australians rejected a referendum proposal to create a committee to offer advice to Parliament on policies that affect Indigenous people.

torontosun.com

Australian referendum on constitutional recognition for Indigenous people fails

Australian voters on Saturday rejected the Voice to Parliament referendum, which would have paved the way for constitutional recognition of Aboriginal and other Indigenous Australians.

uk.news.yahoo.com

Rod Mcguirk is AP's Canberra correspondent.

 

[Roby]

Listening to talkback radio this morning and it's fascinating to hear so many people call up and say they would have no problem with the Voice if it was legislated, but its racist and divisive if its in the constitution. So the Voice isn't racist and divisive if it's legislated?

A lot of dumb people did this calculation in their heads:

*Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders in Constitution.

*What is the constitution?

*Constitution very important!

*Aboriginals get a lot benefits already. Do they want MORE!?

*Aboriginals in constitution, will take MORE! Bingo!

*Enshrined in Constitution. Constitution very very important! Can change laws!

*Why no details? Subterfuge.

*Aboriginals will take our lands and houses with Constitution, forever! Can't change amendment back!

Hey there, could you please vote Yes...No.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

I know from my current workplace, but people who want to avoid conflict, or avoid sharing their real motives will often hide behind "I don't know enough about it". On the one hand, it's ignorance and laziness, but it also shows racism. I know one guy at work who told me he didn't know enough about it, and I also know he's been openly racist and shared ridiculous comments about indigenous people in the past.

This is why I do not support referendums as a form of decision making on issues like this one. It should be introduced on merit. We've clearly seen how ignorant and racist people are on this issue.

Maybe they didn't want to have a conversation with you about it and this was their way of shutting you down.

I think most no voters knew more about this than you would like to believe.

I'm sure many of us did the research and found that the idea that this was just a modest request, didn't pass the pub test.

 

[Purple7x08_24]

Agree - I work in climate change and would never think of putting that up as an issue for Australians to decide whether they want to do anything on it.

I could only imagine a climate related referendum.

Clive Palmer, Hanson, Murdoch and any other large corporation would pump 10s of mllions into misinformation.

 

[Gough]

Rod Mcguirk is AP's Canberra correspondent.

I've had texts from my English friends about Australian politics three times in the last couple of years, Hawthorn racism, our Tone on their Board of Trade and this morning.