Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Maggie5]

Australia is becoming one of the most racist countries in western society.

 

[Gough]

I'm 42 but we learned a lot about Indigenous history at school, did the Dreamtime stories at school and colonisation at high school etc. I feel we did more than other areas of Australian history, I don't really recall doing Gallipoli at school for example.

That actually sounds about right. I was one of the last to do the old one year matric here which had been around for years and there was some fairly major curriculum renovation done with that. I'd imagine most did states similar around the same time.

 

[Gralin]

So the polls really started the current trend around the time the coalition officially stated their position against the voice

It's also after Dutton is rumored to have met with US Christian money groups funding the no campaign and being sold on how this would further is aspirations as PM

If the coalition had supported this there is a very good chance it would have passed

 

[1990crow]

Spoken like a person who hasn't travelled outside of the Adelaide metropolitan area.

Patently false.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

ffs, I wasn't referring to Australia in that original post that you responded to.

I was commenting on that poster's lack of awareness on what goes on in other countries when labelling Australia the most racist.country on earth.

Which other colonised countries dont have a treaty or similar?

 

[Kyptastic]

Can someone please tell me the counter argument to the conservative view that a successful yes vote will simply be creating more division in Australian society and also enshrining in our constitution the status of indigenous Australians as eternal victims who are incapable of helping themselves?

There are some indigenous people who feel this way too. Not just rednecks, racists, and "charitable Christians" like Andrew Bolt

Don't get pissed off at me. I'm just repeating verbatim the arguments I've heard put forth which I don't have an easy answer for.

I fall back on the position of: "Europeans came here... took their land... gave them nothing... It's time we righted the wrongs."
I'm not even sure The Voice will help in this respect. Like many others, I'm just going along with the "general vibe of it".
Is it just a meaningless exercise? A useless gesture that won't achieve much?

Rather than entrenching them as victims, the Voice will give them the responsibility to put forward solutions that will address the disparities between indigenous and non-indigenous people.

We also have a constitution that was imposed on Indigenous people without their input, despite being here before white settlers. This has been a long term process run by indigenous people with wide-ranging consultation about how they want to be recognised in the constitution. This is how they want to be recognised in a way that also includes a practical element that will allow them to fix the problems that they're facing as a people.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Which other colonised countries dont have a treaty or similar?

The Chinese government does not recognize the existence of Indigenous Peoples in the PRC despite voting in favor of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP).

Russia...not sure but they get a pretty raw deal.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You seem to keep turning a blind eye to the horrific racism that still takes place against many Aboriginal people in this country.

To be fair soy, that reply was about labeling all and sundry in the whole country as racist.

That is obviously incorrect, I'm fairly certain you're not racist and I know I'm not.

The throw away line of 'we're a racist country' implies that everyone in this country is racist, which is incorrect and quite frankly offensive.

The horrific racism that still takes place that you refer to is not on part of every single person in this country, that's what that reply was about. Not whether or not racism still exists.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Australia is becoming one of the most racist countries in western society.

Do you mean all of us? Or are you talking about some people who are racist are now more racist.

If you're implying we're becoming one of the most racist countries in western society then that would include you and everyone else in it.

 

[the_interloper]

That actually sounds about right. I was one of the last to do the old one year matric here which had been around for years and there was some fairly major curriculum renovation done with that. I'd imagine most did states similar around the same time.

Makes sense there might have been an overcorrection then, I really didn't learn about Gallipoli and other Australian history much until later in life.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Do you mean all of us? Or are you talking about some people who are racist are now more racist.

If you're implying we're becoming one of the most racist countries in western society then that would include you and everyone else in it.

Do you think there is a problem with white fragility in this country?

 

[QuietB]

The Chinese government does not recognize the existence of Indigenous Peoples in the PRC despite voting in favor of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP).

Russia...not sure but they get a pretty raw deal.

So Australia is hanging with the best of the best - cool

 

[Carringbush2010]

Do you think there is a problem with white fragility in this country?

WTF is white fragility?

 

[Carringbush2010]

So if the yes vote fails.

We'll be the most racist country on the planet, that implies everyone in it, including yes voters would be the most racist people on the planet.

Vote yes.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

WTF is white fragility?

You do know how to use google yeah?

What Is White Fragility?

White fragility is a term coined by Robin DiAngelo referring to the discomfort White people may feel when discussing racism.

www.verywellmind.com

 

[Carringbush2010]

You do know how to use google yeah?

What Is White Fragility?

White fragility is a term coined by Robin DiAngelo referring to the discomfort White people may feel when discussing racism.

www.verywellmind.com

Right, an opinion piece, obviously a biased one at that, not actually factual.

Not sure the relevance of that to the discussion, only relevant to self loathing cry hard white people who go looking for offence.

 

[Gralin]

Right, an opinion piece, obviously a biased one at that, not actually factual.

Not sure the relevance of that to the discussion, only relevant to self loathing cry hard white people who go looking for offence.

its an oversimplification of one set of behaviors that does come up on here and out in the world

but your reponse to it existing is pretty much a bang on text book example of it

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Right, an opinion piece, obviously a biased one at that, not actually factual.

Not sure the relevance of that to the discussion, only relevant to self loathing cry hard white people who go looking for offence.

Proof of concept.

 

[South of the Yarra]

ffs, I wasn't referring to Australia in that original post that you responded to.

I was commenting on that poster's lack of awareness on what goes on in other countries when labelling Australia the most racist.country on earth.

Yes and I have travelled the world, worked in many countries, volunteered in many countries and I can tell you that Australia is an incredibly racist country.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Spoken like a person who hasn't travelled outside of the Adelaide metropolitan area.

Spoken like someone who has no idea of what goes on in this country.

 

[JackOutback]

The throw away line of 'we're a racist country' implies that everyone in this country is racist, which is incorrect and quite frankly offensive.

No it doesn't.

This is half the battle when it comes to tackling racist structures, people take more offence at the phrase racist than the actual racist structure that people are attempting to dismantle.

 

[Roby]

Yes, it is horrific and a blight. But at the same time Australia is probably one of the most multi cultural countries on this planet. Since WWII almost 8M immigrants from over 100 countries have made Australia their home.

You haven't travelled much Stew, have you

 

[Maggie5]

Do you mean all of us?

I must admit, when I posted, didn't have you in mind.

Or are you talking about some people who are racist are now more racist.

No I am not talking about them.

If you're implying we're becoming one of the most racist countries in western society then that would include you and everyone else in it.

Strange conclusion to come to. Why would it include me or others that expressed the same view.

It seems to me that those that can't see it maybe because it is the norm for them, or don't view some of the discussions on social media, mainstream reports, some politicians etc as racists.

Sadly it exists and what is happening in the USA is normalising it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So Australia is hanging with the best of the best - cool

First two that popped into my head, results not surprising.
There are probably plenty of others I don't know about. I think Malaysia have some big issues and all sorts of nasty stuff in Africa.
A lot of the really bad stuff in africa was racially driven and not just white vs black.

 

[Roby]

Good explanation of the Voice:



It covers the biggest questions and claims.

Worth a watch if you find yourself thinking you don't know enough.

Would be interesting to hear Sttew Carringbush2010 MrKK TheEscapeClub SaintsSeptember Skeppersap response to this video.

Is there anything you don't agree with here?