Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Festerz]

Excellent and detailed look into the demographical shifts behind past referendums by highly respected economist George Megalogenis and why a failed Voice referendum outcomes, while delivering a short term boost to Dutton's electoral standing, might spell disaster for the coalition by the time the 2025 Federal election comes around.

(free to access)

Demographics and the Voice

What past referendums tell us about the Voice to Parliament’s chances, and the political risk of the Coalition’s opposition

www.themonthly.com.au

ABC conversation interview with the author here:

George Megalogenis on the stats that tell our story - ABC listen

From the 1944 wartime referendum, to the 1999 vote on whether to become a republic, referenda always tell us things about Australia that aren't revealed in a normal federal election

www.abc.net.au

'The political cliché, that demography is destiny, is misplaced. Political parties do not need to be overwhelmed by the rise of voters beyond their tribe. They can choose to embrace them by engaging with them as fellow Australians. Otherwise, demography does indeed become fate.'

'In choosing to campaign against the Voice on behalf of a shrinking part of the electorate, Dutton risks turning the party of Menzies, which governed Australia for 51 of the past 74 years, into a protest party of permanent opposition.'

 

[Gough]

First two that popped into my head, results not surprising.
There are probably plenty of others I don't know about. I think Malaysia have some big issues and all sorts of nasty stuff in Africa.
A lot of the really bad stuff in africa was racially driven and not just white vs black.

A lot of the African ethnic conflicts are a result of colonial powers imposing arbitary borders about the place without taking to account the local inhabitants.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

A lot of the African ethnic conflicts are a result of colonial powers imposing arbitary borders about the place without taking to account the local inhabitants.

The conflicts , true.
Is it ok to be racist if they don't live in the same country.
Keep em Seperated?

 

[QuietB]

The conflicts , true.
Is it ok to be racist if they don't live in the same country.
Keep em Seperated?

Relevance?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Would be interesting to hear Sttew Carringbush2010 MrKK TheEscapeClub SaintsSeptember Skeppersap response to this video.

Is there anything you don't agree with here?

Not sure why you singled me out.
I agree , being semi literate i've already read the same words that guy read out to me at 1:20 and formed a similar conclusion. I see no need to block it.
I can't imagine in my wildest dreams attending that sort of event depicted at the start of the video. Chanting repetitive bullshit like some weird cult. Who does that? If you don't know, just vote no" is like a stupid verbal equivalent to a meme.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Relevance?

Of your question? Not relevant at all to the response to the post which was the response to my post which was the response to another post.

 

[Spieldory]

Since I am a conservative and voting no, I am already a Racist, so I'll just go along with that. No need to offer any other justification.

 

[Sun Ra]

Since I am a conservative and voting no, I am already a Racist, so I'll just go along with that. No need to offer any other justification.

At least you're honest about who you are and your motivations.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Chanting repetitive bullshit like some weird cult. Who does that? If you don't know, just vote no" is like a stupid verbal equivalent to a meme.

Its similar to how you teach toddlers to remember things in kindergarten.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Its similar to how you teach toddlers to remember things in kindergarten.

I guess if most of the crowd were senile, it kind of makes sense.

 

[MrKK]

Would be interesting to hear Sttew Carringbush2010 MrKK TheEscapeClub SaintsSeptember Skeppersap response to this video.

Is there anything you don't agree with here?

I'm perfectly capable of posting contributions as and when I feel like it. I don't need your annoying tags. Please desist.

 

[Saint]

So if the yes vote fails.

We'll be the most racist country on the planet, that implies everyone in it, including yes voters would be the most racist people on the planet.

Vote yes.

I prefer to compare Australia to the Australia of the past. Were we more racist in the past? We all know we were, nobody's debating it.

I'd love to hear of an example where affirmative action to balance racial inequity has actually been a problem.

It's being/been tried across the globe and there have been many positive results. I don't really know any negative outcomes.

I see the Voice as a type of affirmative action. Where there are systemic, cultural and historic inequities which need to be corrected. The benefits (likely to be tangible) will far outweigh the negatives (mostly perceptive), so I'm voting Yes.

I want the country to be less racist and less racially divided. If indigenous people have slightly more constitutional voice than me, but still less constitutional power than a Tasmanian and way less than a UK monarch, but it means they move towards better education, empowerment, cultural and health outcomes, that's fine with me.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Australia actually have laws that make some racist actions and speech illegal , stronger than many other countries.

If "Australia" were the most racist country, why would they have such laws?
Surely countries that allow racist hate speech are worse?

( Not commenting on the effectiveness of such laws ).

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Australia actually have laws that make some racist actions and speech illegal , stronger than many other countries.

If "Australia" were the most racist country, why would they have such laws?
Surely countries that allow racist hate speech are worse?

( Not commenting on the effectiveness of such laws ).

Remember during covid when newspapers were doing front page spreads of black and/or brown rule breakers, while not reporting on rich white rule breakers?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Obviously, Australia is not the most racist country in the world. But if you need to bring countries with unofficial caste systems still in place into the argument to prove this fact, it actually paints the situation in a worse light.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Remember during covid when newspapers were doing front page spreads of black and/or brown rule breakers, while not reporting on rich white rule breakers?

Racist media isn't the equivalent of Racist Australia.
If they did it blatantly enough they would be breaking the law, but the newspapers know how to skirt around the edges. They would be hoping to draw someone else in, so they can report on them being prosecuted for inciting racial hate.

 

[evolved2]

I actually think a 'yes' vote is textbook racism because you're actively preferencing one race over others. I'm a racist.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Racist media isn't the equivalent of Racist Australia.
If they did it blatantly enough they would be breaking the law, but the newspapers know how to skirt around the edges. They would be hoping to draw someone else in, so they can report on them being prosecuted for inciting racial hate.

Use Murdoch as a case study, and you'll see we exported racism to both USA and UK.

It's quite profitable.

Remember when Dutton wanted to fast track immigration for white South African famers, while at the same time dog whistling about African gangs and locking up the Biloela family?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I actually think a 'yes' vote is textbook racism because you're actively preferencing one race over others. I'm a racist.

It's actually applying to the decedents of any inhabitants of Australia ( and Islands ) prior to colonisation.
It applies to their place of living rather than their race.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Use Murdoch as a case study, and you'll see we exported racism to both USA and UK.

It's quite profitable.

Remember when Dutton wanted to fast track immigration for white South African famers, while at the same time locking up the Biloela family?

Murdoch likes ( liked , does he still do anything? ) to stir the pot because it creates news.

 

[Home Alone]

I actually think a 'yes' vote is textbook racism because you're actively preferencing one race over others. I'm a racist.

I see it a lot differently to you. We have a set of rules and laws, while not intending in to discriminate, actually do. Those are well documented.

While I accept you claim 'that it is preferencing one race', you will need to qualify how it is a detriment to any other race.

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I actually think a 'yes' vote is textbook racism because you're actively preferencing one race over others. I'm a racist.

Listening to indigenous voices isn't racism. You can still listen to non indigenous voices.

 

[evolved2]

It's actually applying to the decedents of any inhabitants of Australia ( and Islands ) prior to colonisation.
It applies to their place of living rather than their race.

Technically correct.

 

[evolved2]

I see it a lot differently to you. We have a set of rules and laws, while not intending in to discriminate, actually do. Those are well documented.

While I accept you claim 'that it is preferencing one race', you will need to qualify how it is a detriment to any other race.

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don't believe it's likely to be detrimental towards other racial groups, and I think the voice is a good initiative even if it's been marketed poorly. Purely from a textbook definition, I'm of the view that voting yes is racist.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I see it a lot differently to you. We have a set of rules and laws, while not intending in to discriminate, actually do. Those are well documented.

While I accept you claim 'that it is preferencing one race', you will need to qualify how it is a detriment to any other race.

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Without being an Anthropologist, i believe that at least some of the Torres straight Islanders come from a completely different gene pool. ( am i right)?
So it would be two races..... or any inhabitants at the time of colonisation.

Or is someone suggesting that everyone with dark skin is the same race?