Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Festerz]

and do you feel locking up 100% of a race,

You have outlined in other threads your business involvement in the WA mining/exploration industry.

I assume this informs your strong opposition to the formal recognition of Indigenous Australians in the Constitution and the creation of an Indigenous representative body to consult with the Australian Parliament and Executive.

Can I ask why?

 

[campbell]

Just watched it

None the wiser for why he's against

paid mouthpiece.

 

[kalex6251]

Just watched it

None the wiser for why he's against

his support for the 'no' vote is proportionate to the level of influence he will lose within first nations communities if the voice gets up

 

[Cap]

ah perhaps I responded to the wrong post.......

It won't matter.

do you feel the Australian governments requirement to label products with indigenous and foreign born labour (islanders, chinese and italian) as acceptable?

Show me these rules

and do you feel locking up 100% of a race, and those that aren't that race but look like that race, is not racist and not motivated solely on race? Wouldn't you expect to see some evidence of foreign allegiance or suspicion of criminal acts? should they have locked up french people or other whites, from nations we were at war with, solely on race? or are whites OK?

The locking up of people was because we were at war with them. I personally don't agree with it, however the Govt didn't simply say let's lock up the Japanese an Germans.

 

[Cap]

would you ever throw around terms, motivated by hate, denying indigenous people their indigenous identity?

if no, then perhaps context is relevant

There is no context needed with your posts

You constantly use racism in context to try an diminish it, usually in the context of indigenous people.

It's pretty clear why you do it. If we are all racist, no one can call you out

 

[AGT]

What benefits will I gain as a 7th generation Australian of European decent if I vote yes?

 

[Cap]

What benefits will I gain as a 7th generation Australian of European decent if I vote yes?

The feeling you get when you do something for someone else without expecting something in return ?

 

[Cap]

I am keen to see these laws that

Australian governments requirement to label products with indigenous and foreign born labour (islanders, chinese and italian)

I can't find anything.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I am keen to see these laws that


I can't find anything.

He probably found it in some facebook boomer meme group.

 

[Festerz]

What benefits will I gain as a 7th generation Australian of European decent if I vote yes?

What benefits did you get as a descendent of someone who arrived in this country from Europe 7 generations ago able to live and work on land that was taken without compensation from those who had lived there for tens of thousands of years previously?

What benefits did you get of not having been taken from your parents as a child to live with others purely because of your skin colour?

What benefits did you get of knowing about the history and culture of your European ancestors without it being erased by colonisers?

What benefits did you get from the fact that had you been born an Aboriginal child, your chances of survival into adulthood would have been half that of those from European descent?

What benefit did you get from the fact that as someone from European descent you are likely to live 10 years longer than Indigenous Australians?

What benefit did you get from the fact that, 7 generations after your ancestors arrived here from the other side of the world, they still have the comfort of a European monarchy, institutions and language in control of their destiny?

I could go on and on.

But you should maybe read a study or two about how someone from European descent has struck the jackpot on every socio-economic and health measure compared to those whose descendants in this country goes back thousands of times further than yours.

Lucky You!

And maybe, just maybe, lucky you could take the time to think carefully about the comparative disadvantage faced by your fellow citizens in this country on every measure you care to think of. And think that now is the time to give those disadvantaged, disrespected and disregarded Indigenous Australians a chance to be heard and respected in their own bloody country?

What do YOU get out of it? A fairer country that understands and respects its past and wants to give its original descendants a bigger say in their own future.

Sound like a good deal to me.

 

[AGT]

The feeling you get when you do something for someone else without expecting something in return.

No body does anything without expecting something in return, I think that's a contradictory statement.

Nobody dose anything without expecting something in return.

If you proform an act on any level then you expect something to happen even at a subconscious level, though you may no be aware if it's positive or negative.

We live in a society where actions are expected to garner benefit for the individual, it's democracy 101 right.

So what benefits dose the individual gain in voting yes?

 

[AGT]

What benefits did you get as a descendent of someone who arrived in this country from Europe 7 generations ago able to live and work on land that was taken without compensation from those who had lived there for tens of thousands of years previously?

What benefits did you get of not having been taken from your parents as a child to live with others purely because of your skin colour?

What benefits did you get of knowing about the history and culture of your European ancestors without it being erased by colonisers?

What benefits did you get from the fact that had you been born an Aboriginal child, your chances of survival into adulthood would have been half that of those from European descent?

What benefit did you get from the fact that as someone from European descent you are likely to live 10 years longer than Indigenous Australians?

What benefit did you get from the fact that, 7 generations after your ancestors arrived here from the other side of the world, they still have the comfort of a European monarchy, institutions and language in control of their destiny?

I could go on and on.

But you should maybe read a study or two about how someone from European descent has struck the jackpot on every socio-economic and health measure compared to those whose descendants in this country goes back hundreds of times further than yours.

Lucky You!

No benefits.

I was afford a substandard education, grew up in a single parent house hold with a disabled brother who I was caring for over night at the age of 8 while mum went to work over night just to put food on the table.

I suffered severe mental health issues because of having to send half my family away in ambulances as a child and young adult.

Then when I broke down I was the privileged middle aged "white guy" who couldn't even get a cup of coffee let alone a sympathetic ear.

I to could go on.

Don't talk to me about privilege my friend.

 

[Cap]

No body does anything without expecting something in return, I think that's a contradictory statement.

Nobody dose anything without expecting something in return.

I help local no for profits all the time with no expectation of reimbursement.

I mean that's just me.

I listened to a podcast today of a volunteer who drives into Ukrainian cities to help get citizens out before genocidal Russians arrive. He doesn't get paid either.

If you proform an act on any level then you expect something to happen even at a subconscious level, though you may no be aware if it's positive or negative.

That's why I said the feeling you get when doing something with no expectation in return

I do know some people consider that something, which is why I said it.

We live in a society where actions are expected to garner benefit for the individual, it's democracy 101 right.

No. Democracy has nothing to do with selfishness

Are you seriously suggesting you wouldn't say, give a person dehydrating a glass of water because you don't gain from it.

So what benefits dose the individual gain in voting yes?

The warm feeling you get when doing something that benefits others.

 

[Home Alone]

paid mouthpiece.

It came across like that

On SM-A515F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Cap]

No benefits.

I was afford a substandard education, grew up in a single parent house hold with a disabled brother who I was caring for over night at the age of 8 while mum went to work over night just to put food on the table.

I suffered severe mental health issues because of having to send half my family away in ambulances as a child and young adult.

Then when I broke down I was the privileged middle aged "white guy" who couldn't even get a cup of coffee let alone a sympathetic ear.

I to could go on.

Don't talk to me about privilege my friend.

Most people who go through things like that come out caring more for others

Not less.

 

[Festerz]

I to could go on.

I bet you do. Your lack of empathy for others, in their hundreds of thousands, while focussing solely on yourself tells quite the bitter story.

A 'what's in it for me' story of I/Me/My.

 

[AGT]

Most people who go through things like that come out caring more for others

Not less.

Not true, I care a great deal.

And my vote is undecided.

I'm a first aid officer at my work place, I bend over backwards to help anyone when ever possible.

I was in a long term relationship with an indigenous woman who unfortunately miscarriaged twice.

I moved from Victoria and now live in FNQ, hold a full time permanent job with many hard working, honest, loving and loyal indigenous people who respect me highly.

I've worked on outback cattle stations as the only "white guy".

You need to stop attacking anyone who dares questions the yes vote and articulate the benefits for every individual who might choose to vote yes.

That was my question.

And if the answer is as simplistic as "cos it feels good".

Then it's a doomed referendum.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Most people who go through things like that come out caring more for others

Not less.

Some come out angry though

 

[AGT]

I bet you do. Your lack of empathy for others, in their hundreds of thousands, while focussing solely on yourself tells quite the bitter story.

A 'what's in it for me' story of I/Me/My.

So what you're essentially saying is only one side of a story is worth hearing?

 

[Festerz]

So what you're essentially saying is only one side of a story is worth hearing?

No.

Because your 'side' isn't the other 'side' of what Indigenous Australians have suffered as a people for 250 years since colonisation.

All the things you have outlined as your issues, sufferings and grievances are unrelated to your cultural background. They are felt by others across the country in the tens probably hundreds of thousands - including by Indigenous Australians. They are issues that need to be heard and addressed.

But what the Referendum and the Voice is aimed at addressing is the systemic issues of denial, abuse, racism and lack of basic care to peoples based solely on their cultural heritage and skin colour.

It is aimed at giving those people an avenue to have their voices heard in our Federal Parliament in a way that has been denied to them as a cultural group since well before 1901.

In fact prior to 1967 our Constitution expressly prohibited the Commonwealth Government from making laws and taking actions to help Indigenous Australians. Individual states and territories had their own way of segregating and demoralising Aboriginal Australians. Individual states had the power to remove Aboriginal children up to 16 years of age from their families in an attempt to normalise them into European customs and ways.

Imagine the psychological harm that has resulted and is still suffered by Indigenous Australians from that.

 

[AGT]

Some come out angry though

Not angry at all.

This is a fantastic conversation and a much needed one.

I am undecided in my vote and I am not afraid to cop criticism or attacks, which have been forthcoming as expected.

I hold no ill will friend.

These decisions need to be had, and worked though vigorously.

The positions need to be challenged and I love taking the side of the challenger.

This is a vote on our constitution.

It is important.

 

[AGT]

This is an amazing forum full of remarkably intelligent people.

Let's not attack the man.

 

[Cap]

Some come out angry though

I guess we all react differently to challenges.

Mind you, it's not unique I guess.

I knew someone once that tried to get pram parking for the local store, biggest most hatefilled objectors, middle aged woman (who had already done the child thing). Just shows even those who go through a challenge don't want to see something that others can benefit from if they get nothing.

 

[AGT]

No.

Because your 'side' isn't the other 'side' of what Indigenous Australians have suffered as a people for 250 years since colonisation.

All the things you have outlined as your issues, sufferings and grievances are unrelated to your cultural background. They are felt by others across the country in the tens probably hundreds of thousands - including by Indigenous Australians. They are issues that need to be heard and addressed.

But what the Referendum and the Voice is aimed at addressing is the systemic issues of denial, abuse, racism and lack of basic care to peoples based solely on their cultural heritage and skin colour.

No my side is the side.

No.

Because your 'side' isn't the other 'side' of what Indigenous Australians have suffered as a people for 250 years since colonisation.

All the things you have outlined as your issues, sufferings and grievances are unrelated to your cultural background. They are felt by others across the country in the tens probably hundreds of thousands - including by Indigenous Australians. They are issues that need to be heard and addressed.

But what the Referendum and the Voice is aimed at addressing is the systemic issues of denial, abuse, racism and lack of basic care to peoples based solely on their cultural heritage and skin colour.

Tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands?

Which one is it?

Which people's stories are relevant and how many are required to make it relevant to you?

 

[Cap]

Not true, I care a great deal.

And my vote is undecided.

I'm a first aid officer at my work place, I bend over backwards to help anyone when ever possible.

I was in a long term relationship with an indigenous woman who unfortunately miscarriaged twice.

I moved from Victoria and now live in FNQ, hold a full time permanent job with many hard working, honest, loving and loyal indigenous people who respect me highly.

I've worked on outback cattle stations as the only "white guy".

You need to stop attacking anyone who dares questions the yes vote and articulate the benefits for every individual who might choose to vote yes.

That was my question.

And if the answer is as simplistic as "cos it feels good".

Then it's a doomed referendum.

I didn't attack you because you dared questioned it

I merely answered your question. You weren't happy with that because all of your relationships are transactional apparently.

Being a paid first aid officer doesn't make make any different, you are after all paid to help.

'Cause it feels good' isn't what people are saying either.

I don't believe you are undecided, it's pretty clear you are decided based solely on your responses.