Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Big Papa Ted]

No body does anything without expecting something in return, I think that's a contradictory statement.

Nobody dose anything without expecting something in return.

If you proform an act on any level then you expect something to happen even at a subconscious level, though you may no be aware if it's positive or negative.

We live in a society where actions are expected to garner benefit for the individual, it's democracy 101 right.

So what benefits dose the individual gain in voting yes?

I'm sorry but what the ****? How transactional is your life jesus.

 

[Festerz]

Tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands?

Which one is it?

Which people's stories are relevant and how many are required to make it relevant to you?

You are trolling here. A freshly minted burner account resorting to the sealioning technique rather than engaging in serious and intelligent dialogue..

The same endless and pointless questions that lead to more questions that has been used by the Coalition to generate an air of confusion and doubt.


Goodbye.

 

[AGT]

I guess we all react differently to challenges.

Mind you, it's not unique I guess.

I knew someone once that tried to get pram parking for the local store, biggest most hatefilled objectors, middle aged woman (who had already done the child thing). Just shows even those who go through a challenge don't want to see something that others can benefit from if they get nothing.

I have a disabled brother who I took to pretty much every sporting event in Victoria because he was a sports nut.

Ever pushed a wheelchair through mud at Phillip Island in the middle of winter.

Lots of people have it hard.

You know not challenge.

You are trolling here. A freshly minted burner account resorting to the sealioning technique rather than engaging in serious and intelligent dialogue..

The same endless and pointless questions that lead to more questions that has been used by the Coalition to generate an air of confusion and doubt.


Goodbye.

View attachment 1700152

Later

 

[AGT]

I didn't attack you because you dared questioned it

I merely answered your question. You weren't happy with that because all of your relationships are transactional apparently.

Being a paid first aid officer doesn't make make any different, you are after all paid to help.

'Cause it feels good' isn't what people are saying either.

I don't believe you are undecided, it's pretty clear you are decided based solely on your

With all due respect, my original post was a very simple question.

The only answer given had been "because it feels good".

Your beliefs about me specifically are irrelevant.

I'm undecided and this debate has done nothing to convince me either way because it's a football forum and frankly your opinions are irrelevant.

Good night.

 

[Cap]

With all due respect, my original post was a very simple question.

The only answer given had been "because it feels good".

Do better.

Good night.

No you haven't

My answer was it's simply something that doesn't benefit you or me. A response which you apparently don't accept.

You then made a heap of stories that are completely meaningless to anyone

Don't do better, be better.

 

[Cap]

I have a disabled brother who I took to pretty much every sporting event in Victoria because he was a sports nut.

Ever pushed a wheelchair through mud at Phillip Island in the middle of winter.

Lots of people have it hard.

You know not challenge.

And here you are bragging about it on the internet, I guess that backs up your transactional view on life

Still doesn't really mean anything except you are voting no because someone else might benefit and you get nothing.

Later

I mean you probably need sleep after all those heroic things you do for internet points

 

[Theseventhhamster]

You have outlined in other threads your business involvement in the WA mining/exploration industry.

I assume this informs your strong opposition to the formal recognition of Indigenous Australians in the Constitution and the creation of an Indigenous representative body to consult with the Australian Parliament and Executive.

Can I ask why?

Has also claimed to be a super wealthy, semi retired, terminally ill, labor member among other things. Will claim absolutely anything that he believes will enhance whatever disingenuous right wing shit needs pushing on the day.

 

[Power Raid]

There is no context needed with your posts

You constantly use racism in context to try an diminish it, usually in the context of indigenous people.

It's pretty clear why you do it. If we are all racist, no one can call you out

would you ever throw around terms, motivated by hate, denying indigenous people their indigenous identity?

I note Ghost Patrol gave you a like for the post...........Ghost would you support such terms?

 

[Power Raid]

You have outlined in other threads your business involvement in the WA mining/exploration industry.

I assume this informs your strong opposition to the formal recognition of Indigenous Australians in the Constitution and the creation of an Indigenous representative body to consult with the Australian Parliament and Executive.

Can I ask why?

if your suggesting there is a conflict of interest between mining and indigenous people, you are a few decades too late. Native title is well established and I dare say people who work with indigenous people on a daily basis have a pretty good relationship with each other.

 

[Gethelred]

would you ever throw around terms, motivated by hate, denying indigenous people their indigenous identity?

I note Ghost Patrol gave you a like for the post...........Ghost would you support such terms?

I told you to cease attacking people. Bye now.

 

[JackOutback]

if your suggesting there is a conflict of interest between mining and indigenous people, you are a few decades too late. Native title is well established and I dare say people who work with indigenous people on a daily basis have a pretty good relationship with each other.

If you’re suggesting mining companies aren’t still taking the piss and ravaging the land while giving a pittance back, then I have a bridge to sell you…

 

[ElectricG]

I heard someone saying on the radio this morning that “enshrining race in the constitution” is the biggest lie of the No campaign.

I would really like to know how the Voice doesn’t do that. The stickied link tries to address it but doesn’t really engage the claim other than to say “race doesn’t exist”.

Thoughts?

 

[Gough]

Just once in the campaign I'd like to hear someone talk about prominent Indigenous Australians opposing the Voice and mention someone other than Mundine and Price.

 

[jim boy]

Not true, I care a great deal.

And my vote is undecided.

I'm a first aid officer at my work place, I bend over backwards to help anyone when ever possible.

I was in a long term relationship with an indigenous woman who unfortunately miscarriaged twice.

I moved from Victoria and now live in FNQ, hold a full time permanent job with many hard working, honest, loving and loyal indigenous people who respect me highly.

I've worked on outback cattle stations as the only "white guy".

You need to stop attacking anyone who dares questions the yes vote and articulate the benefits for every individual who might choose to vote yes.

That was my question.

And if the answer is as simplistic as "cos it feels good".

Then it's a doomed referendum.

You have to be paid to do a good thing that costs you nothing? You'd rather make other people miserable because you are not getting paid??

Fortunately not everyone is FIGJAM like you, some people just want to do the right thing and expect nothing in return.

 

[Crankyhawk]

You have to be paid to do a good thing that costs you nothing? You'd rather make other people miserable because you are not getting paid??

Fortunately not everyone is FIGJAM like you, some people just want to do the right thing and expect nothing in return.

I suppose the point is that they aren’t sure or clear it is the right thing. Particularly if they are indoctrinated by some sectors of mainstream media they could be fully of the belief that “the voice is racist”.

For me it’s simple

• current settings and approaches to closing the gap have failed
• a broad based consultation led to the Uluṟu statement
• the people involved there want a voice
• therefore if we give them a voice then the First Nations people also get a share of the decision making and also responsibility when things don’t work. So if outcomes dont improve it isn’t because we have not had the First Nations people/ representatives involved.

 

[AGT]

After sleeping on it, I've decided to vote yes.

How could anyone possibly argue against changing the constitution for no other reason then "it feels good".

lol, good luck with that.

 

[Festerz]

Just once in the campaign I'd like to hear someone talk about prominent Indigenous Australians opposing the Voice and mention someone other than Mundine and Price.

And at the very least - the media must hold them to account for their lies:

 

[Festerz]

Excellent little article from Paul Bongiorno in The New Daily on the spectre of race being leveraged by the No proponents:

Raising the issue of race​

What can’t be denied; it is the Dutton-led opposition which, with few exceptions, is stridently raising the issue of race.

Mr Dutton told Parliament the Voice would “re-racialise the country”.

The opposition ignores that its side of politics has often precisely used the existing race power in the constitution to intervene in the Northern Territory, impose cashless debit cards and set up Indigenous programs from Canberra because, like John Howard and his minister Mal Brough, they know what’s best.

Little wonder that independent Indigenous Senator Lidia Thorpe says that the “no campaign is looking more like a white-supremacy campaign that is causing a lot of harm”.

The special place of Indigenous Australians has been recognised by every federal government for decades, with ministers appointed to oversee the billions of dollars allocated to their welfare.

It is hard to argue with Justice Harrison that “there is something subtly disgusting” about the contention that the Voice promotes a false “spectre of harm to the Australian community”, which ignores the benefit of giving recognition to a “long-neglected section of our society”.

 

[Saint]

And at the very least - the media must hold them to account for their lies:

Because Warren Mundine only ever won one election, to Dubbo Council.

He's lost many since (State election Dubbo (ALP), Senate seat ALP, Federal MP (Liberal).

In between, he's been collecting Govt money at indigenous advisory bodies. He wants to keep his gravy train of being the unelected indigenous spokesperson and because he'd probably just lose a Voice election, he doesn't want such a Voice to exist.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Excellent little article from Paul Bongiorno in The New Daily on the spectre of race being leveraged by the No proponents:

Raising the issue of race​

What can’t be denied; it is the Dutton-led opposition which, with few exceptions, is stridently raising the issue of race.

Mr Dutton told Parliament the Voice would “re-racialise the country”.

The opposition ignores that its side of politics has often precisely used the existing race power in the constitution to intervene in the Northern Territory, impose cashless debit cards and set up Indigenous programs from Canberra because, like John Howard and his minister Mal Brough, they know what’s best.

Little wonder that independent Indigenous Senator Lidia Thorpe says that the “no campaign is looking more like a white-supremacy campaign that is causing a lot of harm”.

The special place of Indigenous Australians has been recognised by every federal government for decades, with ministers appointed to oversee the billions of dollars allocated to their welfare.

It is hard to argue with Justice Harrison that “there is something subtly disgusting” about the contention that the Voice promotes a false “spectre of harm to the Australian community”, which ignores the benefit of giving recognition to a “long-neglected section of our society”.

"The New Daily"...

 

[00Stinger]

Why are people who are hardcore 'yes' voters openly attacking anyone who dares to say that they may note vote 'yes' when there are aboriginal people openly saying that they will vote no?

 

[Cap]

"The New Daily"...

Genuine question.

What's wrong with the new daily ?

I read indaily here in SA and it's usually pretty good (unrelated entity, but online newspaper)

 

[Crankyhawk]

Why are people who are hardcore 'yes' voters openly attacking anyone who dares to say that they may vote 'yes' when there are aboriginal people openly saying that they will vote no?

the hardcore supporters attack anyone who lacks their ideological purity. Part and parcel of interacting here and you learn who is worthwhile and who lives in an ivory tower of impossible expectation.

 

[00Stinger]

the hardcore supporters attack anyone who lacks their ideological purity. Part and parcel of interacting here and you learn who is worthwhile and who lives in an ivory tower of impossible expectation.

Yeah I didn't mean necessarily just here, but everywhere in general

I mean they are attacking the news for using the work 'divisive'

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/quite-shaken-single-word-in-nine-news-bulletin-infuriates-viewers/news-story/60523aae3a996ed65104961d15f4fb40

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yeah I didn't mean necessarily just here, but everywhere in general

I mean they are attacking the news for using the work 'divisive'

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/quite-shaken-single-word-in-nine-news-bulletin-infuriates-viewers/news-story/60523aae3a996ed65104961d15f4fb40

I suggest that the problem with the News Slimepool using the word "divisive" about anybody or anything else is the sheer, utter hypocrisy.