Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[DaBarz]

Fantastic fill me in. I wait with great anticipation

What do you require that’s not on that list?

 

[DaBarz]

Using that metric is quite flawed.

Not taking into account that as a member of the HOR that they are elected to represent an electorate with roughly 110,000 voters.
And if you are a Senator you represent a State.

Well, thats how it is meant to be.

In reality, each member of parliament unless an Independent, represents a particular political party. So they don't get to vote on issues that are relevant to just Indigenous Australians. They are required to vote along Party lines.

There are numerous Lobbying Groups that already pass on recommendations and requests of the government. No one seems to bat an eyelid at those groups. And those groups normally have very deep pockets.

Why is it that a group that is representative of Indigenous Australians who will be doing exactly the same thing as Big Oil and Mining companies such a threat?

They will pass on recommendations and requests for the Govt to look at. They will not have the power to make law. But there will be the ability to have a concerted voice. Whether Govts now and into the future will listen is a separate issue.

Big oil and mining are in the constitution are they

 

[Rob R]

Why does it need to be in the constitution then?

Symbolism.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[South of the Yarra]

What do you require that’s not on that list?

Wel, you said you would fill me in. All you gave me was a list and I have no idea why so I will wait to be filled in.

 

[campbell]

From Adam Goodes to Stan Grant: Fear of 'tidal wave of abuse' as Voice vote looms

It is how it is, sadly.

 

[Gough]

From Adam Goodes to Stan Grant: Fear of 'tidal wave of abuse' as Voice vote looms

It is how it is, sadly.

It's what Dutton wanted, his political life is staked on being as divisive as possible. The Liberal and National Parties are pretty much the only two high profile bodies in the country who are opposing this and they want to make the process as nasty as possible.

 

[campbell]

It's what Dutton wanted, his political life is staked on being as divisive as possible. The Liberal and National Parties are pretty much the only two high profile bodies in the country who are opposing this and they want to make the process as nasty as possible.

Succeeding.
i had an idiot a few weeks ago, say to me, I am voting no, because, you mob, will take my house if this is in the constitution.

Flipping peanut.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Succeeding.
i had an idiot a few weeks ago, say to me, I am voting no, because, you mob, will take my house if this is in the constitution.

Flipping peanut.

I would be confident in saying idiots like this with this ridiculous fear are an exception.

If people like this were the norm, the world we live in would look much worse and very much more intolerable.

 

[South of the Yarra]

I would be confident in saying idiots like this with this ridiculous fear are an exception.

If people like this were the norm, the world we live in would look much worse and very much more intolerable.

You will not believe how many idiots are still around like this.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You will not believe how many idiots are still around like this.

I'm sure there are, but to suggest this is widespread or mainstream would imply we live in a dystopian society.

 

[Gough]

You will not believe how many idiots are still around like this.

It's those people that the No campaign are relying on. I do wonder whether the 2019 election represented the peak of Liberal party scare campaigning though and people are starting to wake up to the fact that more often than not these days they're just crying wolf.

 

[10571z]

Please step away from your computer, grab a beer, and chillax.
We are not the enemy, we do not bite.

Please don't fear our opinions and voices.

What are you on about? I don’t fear your opinion nor voice.

 

[South of the Yarra]

I'm sure there are, but to suggest this is widespread or mainstream would imply we live in a dystopian society.

Whilst the word dystopian is a political catch cry of an imagined land I would suggest that many Aboriginal Australians are living in a form of dystopia riddled with suffering and injustice.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Whilst the word dystopian is a political catch cry of an imagined land I would suggest that many Aboriginal Australians are living in a form of dystopia riddled with suffering and injustice.

I'm not disagreeing with you, merely pointing out that if such idiots were the norm, like broader society, then our society would be much much worse than what it is now.

 

[South of the Yarra]

What are you on about? I don’t fear your opinion nor voice.

You are certainly coming across like you do.

 

[10571z]

You are certainly coming across like you do.

Discussing in thread designed for discussing the issue means you’re scared. Logic.

 

[Grin]

I would be confident in saying idiots like this with this ridiculous fear are an exception.

If people like this were the norm, the world we live in would look much worse and very much more intolerable.

You'd be surprised. Liberal party mouth pieces use the "you will lose your house" with pretty much any policy they oppose (ie any policy that puts the interests of Australians ahead of the 0.1% or foreign owned multinationals). For example, when a policy was proposed to slightly reduce the massive subsidies for the superannuation of the super rich, David Kotch publicly insisted that it would result in the scraping of negative gearing which would mean the family home would be taxed. He was obviously deliberately lying through his teeth, but he knows that there are a lot of people naive enough to be conned by this sort of line. Hopefully enough to threaten the government's hold on power and force it to back down.
I can assure you, your average Liberal voter is absolutely stupid enough to believe sh*t like this. We know this because a lot of people who aren't super wealthy who still vote Liberal, so therefor there must be a lot of stupid, naive and gullible people out there.

It follows then that a lot of people have fallen for the fear campaign and dishonest messaging that a voice to parliament will result in unfair discrimination and even apartheid for everyone who is non indigenous. It's really not surprising that many of them believe they'll lose their home. Dutton's dishonest, divisive and racist messaging is cutting through for a fairly large minority of the population.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You'd be surprised. Liberal party mouth pieces use the "you will lose your house" with pretty much any policy they oppose (ie any policy that puts the interests of Australians ahead of the 0.1% or foreign owned multinationals). For example, when a policy was proposed to slightly reduce the massive subsidies for the superannuation of the super rich, David Kotch publicly insisted that it would result in the scraping of negative gearing which would mean the family home would be taxed. He was obviously deliberately lying through his teeth, but he knows that there are a lot of people naive enough to be conned by this sort of line. Hopefully enough to threaten the government's hold on power and force it to back down.
I can assure you, your average Liberal voter is absolutely stupid enough to believe sh*t like this. We know this because a lot of people who aren't super wealthy who still vote Liberal, so therefor there must be a lot of stupid, naive and gullible people out there.

It follows then that a lot of people have fallen for the fear campaign and dishonest messaging that a voice to parliament will result in unfair discrimination and even apartheid for everyone who is non indigenous. It's really not surprising that many of them believe they'll lose their home. Dutton's dishonest, divisive and racist messaging is cutting through for a fairly large minority of the population.

Whilst this post displays the obvious, like anyone with a modicum of intelligence will know this, stupid people like this are not the norm.

Like I said in the post you replied to.

 

[campbell]

Whilst this post displays the obvious, like anyone with a modicum of intelligence will know this, stupid people like this are not the norm.

Like I said in the post you replied to.

Think the MAGA believers here in Australia.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Think the MAGA believers here in Australia.

Yeah not many of them, certainly not a majority.

 

[Grin]

Yeah not many of them, certainly not a majority.

Not a majority but a sizable minority. Sizable enough that the leader of the opposition is gambling that appealing to them will get him back into a competitive position at the next election.
I don't think his attempts to stir up culture wars by appealing to the ignorant, easily conned, the fearful, cruel and bigoted is as an effective strategy as it was when John Howard and Tony Abbott employed it. People seem more awake to the grift. However, Peter Dutton has access to poling and focus groups etc. and he obviously thinks there's a lot of them out there.

I hope you're right and Dutton's wrong.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Not a majority but a sizable minority. Sizable enough that the leader of the opposition is gambling that appealing to them will get him back into a competitive position at the next election.
I don't think his attempts to stir up culture wars by appealing to the ignorant, easily conned, the fearful, cruel and bigoted is as an effective strategy as it was when John Howard and Tony Abbott employed it. People seem more awake to the grift. However, Peter Dutton has access to poling and focus groups etc. and he obviously thinks there's a lot of them out there.

I hope you're right and Dutton's wrong.

Of course spud head is wrong, and probably knows it, and he's appealing to numbers that won't define an election.

He's in opposition and is opposing the voice, and I'll speculate because he actually believes his own bs and hope that enough of the electorate believe his bs.

I can confidently assume that there aren't enough that believe his bs, if there were then our society would look very different and much much worse.

 

[Gralin]

I'm sure there are, but to suggest this is widespread or mainstream would imply we live in a dystopian society.

here is the important point about dystopia

it's a matter of perspective

we are a dystopian society already for many, many people around the world

if you're part of the privileged class in a society, even at the bottom of that group, like say the middle class in Australia

you might think yeah its not that bad, I've got a roof, a job, my kid goes to school, I have friends, nobody is actively trying to kill me, world seems ok

of course that also means you probably don't know anyone that isn't like you, because you think the world seems ok

kind of points to a narrow world view, unwilling, or unable to accept that it isn't like that for everyone else

 

[royale with cheese]

I'm voting no.

 

[Saint Shags]

Big oil and mining are in the constitution are they

Ah but you seem to not have a problem with rich powerful companies holding sway over govts as part of lobbying.

What's so scary about a group of Indigenous folk having the same?

The only difference is that it will be enshrined in the constitution. Nothing more nothing less. Why is that scary to you?

What's the big fear factor?