Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Chief]

So do Tasmanians.

Your point?

You haven't seen 10571z 's relentless campaign against the unfairness of the Senate?

To be honest, neither have I

 

[JackOutback]

Maybe people just don't want positions of political power handed to others based on nothing more than their skin colour.

Boy, have I got a story for you. It starts almost 250 years ago…

 

[Golden_6]

I honestly think this is in massive trouble and will make a huge dent in Labor’s political capital in general.

I’ll vote yes. I’m moderately political engaged and I choose to understand political issues. This referendum has been completely muddled and those who have political apathy and have no idea what they’re voting for in my circle, the consensus is no.

Some were always going to vote no but those I thought would be on the fence have now well and truly decided they’ll be no. It’s not a nice thing to have to say but this is definitely making those I know more racist. I’m from a ‘sheltered’ area in Melbourne but his whole ordeal has made thing worse from my perspective.

 

[Cap]

I honestly think this is in massive trouble and will make a huge dent in Labor’s political capital in general.

I’ll vote yes. I’m moderately political engaged and I choose to understand political issues. This referendum has been completely muddled and those who have political apathy and have no idea what they’re voting for in my circle, the consensus is no.

Some were always going to vote no but those I thought would be on the fence have now well and truly decided they’ll be no. It’s not a nice thing to have to say but this is definitely making those I know more racist. I’m from a ‘sheltered’ area in Melbourne but his whole ordeal has made thing worse from my perspective.

I don't watch FTA TV or listen to the radio so I may have missed all the yay or nay stuff.

But for something that has polling done on it, you really don't hear a great deal about it

 

[Crankyhawk]

I've been campaigning for this for quite a while so I will definitely vote yes.

I'm just wondering if voting yes will make me racist in any way?

According to duttons version of “no” it does (based on what I could follow of his rhetoric) though given his track record he is likely to be wrong even before any serious examination of the issue.

 

[mcnulty]

This referendum has been completely muddled and those who have political apathy and have no idea what they’re voting for in my circle, the consensus is no

There is another faction- those that think this is more bureaucracy, that will most likely do nothing tangible for those in the communities. To be fair, it’s been voiced by some Aboriginals themselves. The Oz has trotted out a couple in the last few days.

Expect this angle to be hammered by the Nos.

 

[Rob R]

There is another faction- those that think this is more bureaucracy, that will most likely do nothing tangible for those in the communities. To be fair, it’s been voiced by some Aboriginals themselves. The Oz has trotted out a couple in the last few days.

Expect this angle to be hammered by the Nos.

That's probably the only way the no vote makes progress especially if combined with the unknown cost (which will probably be nearly cost neutral once the failed organisations it replaces are considered) and the cost of living pressure people are feeling. Still convinced it will romp home as most people don't really care either way and it sounds good (not to mention Dutton, Hanson and co are so bad, them saying no.will make people vote yes)

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gethelred]

I've stated this before, Indigenous Australians already represented in parliament are representing party policy (whichever party they're a member of).

This is different, this is representing the indigenous, not interests of a political party (which hold little if any positive interest for first nations people).

Yeah I know there's a fear 'just vote for it and we'll sort the detail later' - that's how the constitution was formed. Positive notion followed by the how to achieve it. (A bit more nuanced than that, but that is the basic premise). Same principle as 'we'll appoint Fly as our coach and work the finer details later'

There is nothing to fear, if the end of the day fear is, 'the indigenous will take back the land our houses are on or banish anyone non indigenous from these shores' (May have put a bit of mayo on it), how do you think the bulk of the population would accept that? They wouldn't, therefore by extension allowing a group such power would be political suicide.

The members of the voice are only there to advise govt. on issues / policies that may effect them, nothing more, nothing less.

The other fear you stated: 'will create further divide' - well that is true only for those who don't want change, which is very much the noisy minority, spud head wants you to believe the 'divide'.

The rest of us, in the middle, will be aligned in not fearing the 'voice'.

Join us!

 

[Gethelred]

How did you come to the conclusion?

Indigenous Australians have a higher representation in Parliament per capita already.

Might suggest they have a fair bit that needs changing/fixing.

Complacent people don't become activists.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I'm confused Gethy,

In one reply it seems you're implying you agree with the post.

In the next it seems you're implying you won't join the popular sentiment.

 

[Gethelred]

I'm confused Gethy,

In one reply it seems you're implying you agree with the post.

In the next it seems you're implying you won't join the popular sentiment.

I was completely onboard until the final two lines.

You've a habit of penning some utterly unobjectionable posts only to make them completely so with a line or two at the end.

 

[cartwright]

Maybe people just don't want positions of political power handed to others based on nothing more than their skin colour.

What are you really scared of?

Because there’s no positions of “political power” being handed out.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I was completely onboard until the final two lines.

You've a habit of penning some utterly unobjectionable posts only to make them completely so with a line or two at the end.

You're referring to this.


One can only conclude you think

• The majority is against / fears the voice.
• You don't want to join the majority, because it's the majority.
• You don't want to join the majority, coz I'm in it.

OK no worries.

 

[Gethelred]

You're referring to this.
View attachment 1705917

One can only conclude you think

• The majority is against / fears the voice.
• You don't want to join the majority, because it's the majority.
• You don't want to join the majority, coz I'm in it.

OK no worries.

Or...

Your deference to the majority for the concept of good/just is puerile. It's slimy. It's obnoxious. It smells.

If the No case wins in this election, will your response - despite having penned a reasoned case in favour of voting yes - be anything other than shrugging and saying, "The majority has spoken."?

It's a struggle to see what you actually believe. I have no desire to join you - or any group of enlightened centrists - because of that fence sitting.

It's part of why this forum is good: it provides you the opportunity/exposure not only to those who you disagree with, but also those you agree with but whose views or their reasons for them disagreeable.

 

[mcnulty]

If the No case wins in this election, will your response - despite having penned a reasoned case in favour of voting yes - be anything other than shrugging and saying, "The majority has spoken."?

What would you expect his response to be?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Or...

Your deference to the majority for the concept of good/just is puerile. It's slimy. It's obnoxious. It smells.

If the No case wins in this election, will your response - despite having penned a reasoned case in favour of voting yes - be anything other than shrugging and saying, "The majority has spoken."?

It's a struggle to see what you actually believe. I have no desire to join you - or any group of enlightened centrists - because of that fence sitting.

It's part of why this forum is good: it provides you the opportunity/exposure not only to those who you disagree with, but also those you agree with but whose views or their reasons for them disagreeable.

That sounds like an admission that you're against the majority generally, no surprise and a reason you get opposition on these boards.

For the most part the majority is sensibly centred, I can fairly assume you oppose that because for the most part does not fully cater to the progressive ideal view. Nor does it cater to the self centred rwnj view.

BTW If the no vote gets up, which it won't, I'd disagree with it. Not sure how you struggle to see what I actually believe or view it as 'fence sitting', if that's fence sitting, please build me fences.

I'm centred because it's the most practical world view, to wish society cater to the most (which it should) you and other progressives may view that as opposition to minority groups and their struggles - it isn't.

 

[Vindicater]

The percentage of young voters voting yes means that if the no gets up then the liberals have consigned themselves to an eternity out of office.

 

[JackOutback]

There is another faction- those that think this is more bureaucracy, that will most likely do nothing tangible for those in the communities. To be fair, it’s been voiced by some Aboriginals themselves. The Oz has trotted out a couple in the last few days.

Expect this angle to be hammered by the Nos.

A party that didn't do a single tangible thing for more than a decade doesn't get to claim that a fresh attempt to do something isn't tangible.

The percentage of young voters voting yes means that if the no gets up then the liberals have consigned themselves to an eternity out of office.

This is what gives me hope for the referendum, polling usually uses old school methods, like landline calls to gather responses and young people don't respond to that line of enquiry. Hell, I'm middle aged and if I don't recognise the number on my landline, I assume it's spam and don't answer. If the polls are skewing old and the yes vote is still ahead, it should romp it in.

 

[Gethelred]

What would you expect his response to be?

"This is wrong."

 

[mcnulty]

The percentage of young voters voting yes means that if the no gets up then the liberals have consigned themselves to an eternity out of office.

I don’t think you can say that. There will be conservatives who vote yes here but never vote Labor, and there will be rusted on Labor voters who vote no.

Also can’t assume people’s political opinions are a remain fixed, or that they will particularly care. A No vote will be a set back for Albanese, simply because he’ll cop some of the blame for it. I doubt it will be fatal, especially if the alternative is Dutton.

 

[mcnulty]

A party that didn't do a single tangible thing for more than a decade doesn't get to claim that a fresh attempt to do something isn't tangible.

Wasn’t talking about the Libs. Was saying this was an argument being run against, including Indigenous voices over the last few days. The Yes camp will need to effectively counter it.

 

[FredLeDeux]

The percentage of young voters voting yes means that if the no gets up then the liberals have consigned themselves to an eternity out of office.

Yes, the No campaign by the LNP is a political mistake, because if it gets up, the gradualists in the indigenous rights movement will lose all political and moral authority to those who think the Voice is useless tokenistic window dressing, and who will demand a Treaty now.

 

[ep2018]

I honestly think this is in massive trouble and will make a huge dent in Labor’s political capital in general.

I’ll vote yes. I’m moderately political engaged and I choose to understand political issues. This referendum has been completely muddled and those who have political apathy and have no idea what they’re voting for in my circle, the consensus is no.

Some were always going to vote no but those I thought would be on the fence have now well and truly decided they’ll be no. It’s not a nice thing to have to say but this is definitely making those I know more racist. I’m from a ‘sheltered’ area in Melbourne but his whole ordeal has made thing worse from my perspective.

Come the actual vote I still reckon all but Queensland will vote yes.

 

[L_W_P]

Is this a compulsory vote like a state/federal election?

I could see a situation where a good % of people are casually thinking 'No' but then cant be arsed to actually turn up and vote, while all the people who are in the 'Yes' camp will 100% turn out and put their ballot in.

 

[jim boy]

Is this a compulsory vote like a state/federal election?

Yes