Reiwoldt v Mooney 2007

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Lets not forget that Mooney had 8 All Australians kicking the ball to him in the most attacking, high scoring side in the competition yet he still only averaged slightly more than 2 goals a game from Full Forward. If you are playing in a team with 8 All Australians, the full forward should need to win the Coleman to make the AA team. Anything less is not worth it.
 
Digby_from_Dingley said:
Poor game? He kicked 3.3. You do that every game and you win the Coleman. It just shows how ridiculously he is judged when 3.3 is seen as a poor game yet 4 goals form Harvey (including 2 in junk time and 2 gifts) is seen as a good game and redemtion for a poor showing the week before.
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Thats very true, and the delivery to franklin was deplorable. How is he expected to kick goals when the ball flies in like a helicopter all night. He has had six shots at goal and converted only 50% but he still had siz shots with shocking kicking from the likes of the normally dependable mitchell etc. Buddy had an ok night and was far from the worst
 

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Digby_from_Dingley said:
Poor game? He kicked 3.3. You do that every game and you win the Coleman. It just shows how ridiculously he is judged when 3.3 is seen as a poor game yet 4 goals form Harvey (including 2 in junk time and 2 gifts) is seen as a good game and redemtion for a poor showing the week before.
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Then why didn't he? Obviously, that wasn't an example of a poor day for him. If he kicked bags of 7 etc, and had a few smaller bags, does that mean that yes, he was inconsistent, because if he was, he would have won the Coleman?
 
42 goals in the leauges lowest scoring team is a pretty decent effort. We had real issues moving the ball this year and I have no doubt if Nick was playing with Geelong this year he would have kicked 70+
 
g_TRAIN said:
42 goals in the leauges lowest scoring team is a pretty decent effort. We had real issues moving the ball this year and I have no doubt if Nick was playing with Geelong this year he would have kicked 70+
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But he wasn't, and like it or not, who you're playing alongside makes you look a better player. If Darren Milburn played at West Coast, I'm sure he'd have been AA for about the past 3 or 4 years. Want a grape?
 
g_TRAIN said:
42 goals in the leauges lowest scoring team is a pretty decent effort. We had real issues moving the ball this year and I have no doubt if Nick was playing with Geelong this year he would have kicked 70+
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The AA isn't about what ifs. It's about what happened.

Sheesh!
 
I still don't get why people think Riewoldt had a better season. Mooney had more goals, more goal assist, more marks inside 50; they were going for a forward position, and based completly on this season Mooney was better. Franklin and Lucas were unlucky sure, no one is doubting that.
 
dont bowl there said:
Reiwoldt is the stat master though, gets a ton of the footy near the wing where his defender is happy for him to get marks.
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The stats analysis is VERY haevily weighted towards stats such as contested posessions, goal assists and goals, as well as effectiveness of the posession. Easy Posessions on the wing do not contribute much to a players ranking.
 
How on earth can you guys debate this?

Riewoldt is a superstar forward in a very ordinary team at present versus Mooney who would frequently cry in front of the umpires literally when they started bullying him. Oh hangon Riewoldt cries to, i have no case, the defense rests!! :)
 

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Duskfire said:
I still don't get why people think Riewoldt had a better season.
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Because Mooney had 8 All Australians giving him the ball, with the amount of quality deleiviery into the forward 50, it would have been almost impossible for a full forward to kick less goals. Whils Mooney had more goals and goal assists per game, when you take into consideration that the Cats higher scoring gameplan led to 33% more scores, Riewoldt comes out easily in front. IMO 4 Goals in a 10 goal to 9 victory is a better effort than 5 goals in a 25 goal to 15 goal win.
 
Digby_from_Dingley said:
Because Mooney had 8 All Australians giving him the ball, with the amount of quality deleiviery into the forward 50, it would have been almost impossible for a full forward to kick less goals. Whils Mooney had more goals and goal assists per game, when you take into consideration that the Cats higher scoring gameplan led to 33% more scores, Riewoldt comes out easily in front. IMO 4 Goals in a 10 goal to 9 victory is a better effort than 5 goals in a 25 goal to 15 goal win.
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How about this, we get in a time machine, go back to trade week 2006, trade Mooney for Riewoldt (throw in some sweetener picks if you like) re-play the 2007 season with the players in opposite teams and see how they go, then get back in the time machine and come back to “reality” where we can compare how Mooney would have gone in a St Kilda jumper and how Riewoldt would have gone in a Geelong jumper and we can make a fair and balanced assessment about all of the “what ifs”.

Or not.

We could just look at how they performed in 2007. I know it’s crazy, but that’s the criteria for selection. Disappointingly, they don’t consider other time-space continua. Further disappointment mounts when we realise that they just look at actual performance, not A was good in a good team but B was good in a poor team so B>A.

42 goals is not enough for an All-Australian key forward.
 
Digby_from_Dingley said:
Because Mooney had 8 All Australians giving him the ball, with the amount of quality deleiviery into the forward 50, it would have been almost impossible for a full forward to kick less goals. Whils Mooney had more goals and goal assists per game, when you take into consideration that the Cats higher scoring gameplan led to 33% more scores, Riewoldt comes out easily in front. IMO 4 Goals in a 10 goal to 9 victory is a better effort than 5 goals in a 25 goal to 15 goal win.
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But AA is based on individualism isn't it? Who cares about what if's. You could argue the same for someone like Fevola; if he was playing for the Cats or the Eagles he could have won the coleman, thus maybe he should have been considered too. Or pretty much every forward in the competition.
 
Riewoldt had a dual coleman medallist FF in the square behind him in a similar way Lucas did...his job is not to get in his way and to play the old fashioned CHF role. He will never kick as many goals as someone playing out of the sqaure due to his job specs being as a long leading contested ball target between half forward and the middle.

Pavlich for example played much more out of the square much like Brown did at Brissy this yr. This will naturally lead to more shots on goal and oftn easier shots.

You get the job the coach gives u ...from a contested point of view and taking advantage of poorer supply i thought Riewoldt had a fine season after zero preseason and missing the first cpl of games.

Mooney should not have been in the AA team at all.

In terms of seasons and impact with the supply offered up i would have thought that slot could have been raffled between Riewoldt, Franklin or Lucas...wouldnt have mattered which coz all three > Mooney in 07.
 
Digby_from_Dingley said:
Poor game? He kicked 3.3. You do that every game and you win the Coleman. It just shows how ridiculously he is judged when 3.3 is seen as a poor game yet 4 goals form Harvey (including 2 in junk time and 2 gifts) is seen as a good game and redemtion for a poor showing the week before.
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What influence did his 3.3 have on the game? That was moreso what I was alluding to. I'm not saying Franklin wouldn't have been deserving. He had a great year.
 
Bollox said:
his job is not to get in his way and to play the old fashioned CHF role. He will never kick as many goals as someone playing out of the sqaure due to his job specs being as a long leading contested ball target between half forward and the middle.
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We do not adjust the AA selection according to “oh but he had such and such a role and if it was different he woulda dun better but”.

Actual performances only thanks.

The case is there for Franklin and Lucas but not Riewoldt (Mr 42 goals).
 
Yashek said:
Claude Balls said:
Franklin wouldn't have been underserving, but I think his inconsistency counted against him. His 7 versus the crows followed by a poor game against the Roos was a classic example.

QUOTE]

Franklin still kicked three, and it the leading finals goal kicker - will be interesting to see if Mooney overtakes him.

Over the season though, he was clearly superior to Mooney - same number of possessions and more goals from the same position - seems fairly simple, really.

I've just put Mooney down as the "Walls pick" of this year's team - a la Brad Ottens 2001 - a tall forward with powerful thighs for him to salivate over.

Franklin - Riewoldt - Lucas - Mooney.
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Why don't you list your team?? Always baffles me when people don't do that.

I would say:

Lucas - Franklin - Mooney - Riewoldt

All I can come up with is that Mooney's tally of marks inside 50 and goal assists were looked upon very highly.
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Mooney plays in the forward line and kicks goals, takes marks and set up teammates

Riewoldt plays on the wing and chips it around.

As for the others, there was a huge case for Lucas. Lucas problem was he didn't do enough in the matches Essendon could/should have won and got them into the finals. Mooney edged him out as a 'match-winning' force

Franklin was great but inconsistent. His time will come, don't worry!
 
Mooney
Zero goal games 1
1 goal games 6
2 goal games 4
3 goal games 5
4 goal games 4
5 goal games 3

Franklin
Zero goal games ZERO
1 goal games 7
2 goal games 2
3 goal games 4
4 goal games 3
5 goal games 2
6+ goal games 4


Please explain to me how Franklin is inconsistant... or maybe that is just something that you have heard thrown around... dont worry its a common misconception
 

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Reiwoldt v Mooney 2007

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