Reiwoldt v Mooney 2007

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The 'Cousin of Jack' deserved to be in the AA team over Mooney IMO.

Cousin of Jack had a better season than his AA year last year, and although I do rate Mooney highly this year's AA team IMO (this year's isn't as strong sa usual it seems to me) so Cousin of Jack should not have been dumped from the starting 18.

It's almost as if he simply fell out of favour and didn't have the hype.

Consistency does that to great players, you forget how good they are.
 
Forget Mooney for a moment, that Steve Johnson went in there ahead of Riewoldt, Lucas, Franklin and Richardson is astounding. He only played 17 games for a start, and even then his averages are inferior in many categories. Johnson seems to have been picked primarily because of the performances of his team-mates.


AFKAJR said:
Mooney is not as soft as a marshmallow in the sun either
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Ridiculous post. How often does Riewoldt put his body on the line and his head over the ball? Certainly no less than Mooney.
 

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Reiwoldt. Carries St.Kilda on his back. Has a shocking team around him with shocking delivery into his forwardline with 3 guys hanging off him and bodying him at all times.

Mooney. Best team in the AFL around him with the best supply in the AFL. He also performs with no pressure on him as they're always up by 10 goals.
 
Chewy said:
So then, do you watch much footy? :rolleyes:

Riewoldt plays CHF.
Pavlich plays FF and CHF, and occasionally wanders up the field, but usually he stays close to home
Brown plays FF and CHF, but stays close to home.
Mooney plays FF and CHF, but stays close to home, same as Brown.
Franklin plays FF and CHF and sometimes plays further up the ground than Riewoldt.

In any case, all these old terms for "positions" are no longer relevant.
But the fact is, Brown plays more or less the same role as Mooney, only better, so going by your own logic, Mooney should've made way.

But Mooney, Riewoldt and Franklin weren't competing with Brown. He was first picked.
They were competing each other for the position of third tall.
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Difference is Mooney plays on the full forward line all the time, Brown is generally around the half forward line and drops back and Pavlich is usually close to goal and pushes up. My point is Mooney spent more time on the FF line then Franklin who was mostly on the half forward line, and Riewoldt who goes everywhere on the field.

Ebert and Mooney spend most time near the goal, hence why they were the only considerations for that spot. Ebert should have been the small pocket over Johnson or in the tall over Mooney. If you really wanted to argue Franklin in the team, then at a push on a HFF. But Riewoldt is CHF and he in NO WAY was better then Brown this year.

The Cryptkeeper said:
Scarlett plays FB yet was selected in the pocket. Your point is redundant.
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Did you even read my point? Yes Scarlett is FB but plays on the full back line. You know, deep defence. So while i dont agree with him being back pocket, it makes sense that IF they had to include him then back pocket is where it is. Because he certainly wouldnt fit in anywhere else. People are saying Mooney (FF line) should be replace by someone who plays at CHF or HFF. And im not the only one who sees how stupid that is.

cradle of filth said:
Riewolt, Franklin and Lucas ALL had better seasons than Mooney.
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Whats the difference between those 4 players? All half forwards, or in Lucas' case even sometimes CHB, Mooney = deep forward. ITS VERY SIMPLE.

And chrisjie, ever think that Mooney is one of the key reasons Geelong are up by 10 goals often? Think about it.
 
GhostofJimJess said:
Forget Mooney for a moment, that Steve Johnson went in there ahead of Riewoldt, Lucas, Franklin and Richardson is astounding. He only played 17 games for a start, and even then his averages are inferior in many categories. Johnson seems to have been picked primarily because of the performances of his team-mates.
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Wrong. Johnson is small forward, the 4 players you listed are all tall KPP players. S.Johnson competed with players like Didak and Boomer Harvey for his spot in the AA side.
 
Fact is they were looking for a forward pocket, when has Riewoldt played in the pocket? He is rarely inside 50 and gets cheap possessions up on the wing which unless he can get it to G or Milne are pretty much useless.

Mooney had a stellar year and also had guys like Johnson, both Abletts, Chapman, Stokes and Hawkins (at times) to compete with for the ball. He did it well with many goal assists was never greedy and was always relaible when we needed him.

If Riewoldt wants to be mentioned in the same breath as other great CHF he must change his game and play more like Franklin who controls that area from 60m on not 80-90m on.
 
^^^^ bit silly.

You play according to your list and what your coach thinks is best value from you. Riewoldt plays a more traditional CHF role due to having had a dual coleman medallist behind him in the square requiring space. His job is as a primary lead up target between half forward and the middle and does this extremely well.

There were times this yr when they played Koschitzke AND Gehrig near goals...do u want them to play all three as goalkicking targets or would u play the bloke with a big tank further upfield ? I know i would.

All lists are different but remember that when u have a decent FF tough match ups like Riewoldt can often just get in the way and drag TWO extra defenders close to their FF's and goalmouth.

If a CHF kicks 2 or 3 thats a damn good return..with the occ bag of 5+ during a season. Its PRESENTING YOURSELF AS A TARGET that is super important at CHF...the more you present the more valuable a contribution u make...you TRY to stay within scoring range but if the ball isnt coming in the way u need it then you need to go regulalry upfield to make an impact and get your own ball.

The way i see modern CHF's is if they DONT go upfield much its often coz they dont have the tank for it. Hansen at wce was modelling his game off Riewoldt and Pav and was proving vital to them at one stage by playing a lot upfield. Helps to have a decent FF tho.
 
Laser123 said:
Struggles in front of goals yet he was more accurate this year than Mooney :rolleyes:

Maybe the reason he leads up the ground is because there was a guy called Gehrig playing out of the goal square
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Also, top forwards in less successful teams have to take the initiative and go seek the ball out more, they can't afford to just stay home and wait for it. That's why Richardson ends up leading way up the ground a lot too.
 

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mrbehemoth said:
Also, top forwards in less successful teams have to take the initiative and go seek the ball out more, they can't afford to just stay home and wait for it. That's why Richardson ends up leading way up the ground a lot too.
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Exactly...and often u see it much more in the SECOND HALF from the better KP fwds...or when BEHIND on the scoreboard.

You WANT the better players and primary targets to try to force themselves on a game if the ball simply isnt coming in. Sometimes they have to park themselves across the middle coz their midfielders are getting squashed...if u have the petrol tickets your coach doesnt want them still available in the sheds after the game...spend them ALL for your team is what they want. Nothing more useless than having your gun pacing around the goalmouth with 2 or 3 defenders on him in a 3rd qtr whilst your team is getting run over.

These blokes having to play this way will always kick less for the season than the guys playing closer to goal...Pav and Brown looked like they were under specific instructions this season to stay closer to goal and no surprise their actual goal kicking return was higher. Franklin played tight to the posts most of the season also and had a great season.

Travis Cloke has had what i;d call his breakout season this yr..no surprise he seems to play his best footy when he's upfield a lot...he HURTS most that way as a target dragging out defenders and i regulalry saw him out on the wing trying to link the ball into his forward line...young with a good tank so he CAN. Rocca nearer the posts and u suddenly have a STRONG combination. Cloke will get his fair share of goals but his coach will not wanting him hanging around anywhere near Rocca like a bad smell if they are behind or at a crucial stage of the game...the runner will go out to tell him to get on his bike and go get it.

VALUE as a forward must be measured with common sense and with an eye to their individual team make ups. Mooney could afford to hang closer to goal with excellent delivery and lots of it from a dominant midfield. of course he will kick more.

I like my Friday night footy and one game Riewoldt played this yr stood out as ridiculous and an insight into the lot of a KP forward. Fremantle fans will remember at Subi when Riewoldt was simply destroying their backilne and played an incredle first half...was everywhere...BUTTTT he had the ball fired at his feet, over his head, 2 mtrs to his side and to the defenders advantage...the bloke must have been frustrated as hell and could have had 10 shots on goal by halftime...butchering your key forward is usually overlooked when analysing their performance.

Thought Cloke had a damn good season also. Mooney caught a gift slot.
 
Bollox said:
I like my Friday night footy and one game Riewoldt played this yr stood out as ridiculous and an insight into the lot of a KP forward. Fremantle fans will remember at Subi when Riewoldt was simply destroying their backilne and played an incredle first half...was everywhere...BUTTTT he had the ball fired at his feet, over his head, 2 mtrs to his side and to the defenders advantage...the bloke must have been frustrated as hell and could have had 10 shots on goal by halftime...butchering your key forward is usually overlooked when analysing their performance.

Thought Cloke had a damn good season also. Mooney caught a gift slot.
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Riewoldt's a fantastic player, running and running and running, like you say, when he's on song, he's everywhere. I can't say I watched the two players in enough detail to judge properly who fully deserved AA selection, but "42 goals!" and "gets marks on the wing!" are no arguments against Riewoldt. People seem to think pointing out Riewoldt's role is an excuse for why he didn't play well; it's actually an explanation of how he DID play well.
 
mrbehemoth said:
People seem to think pointing out Riewoldt's role is an excuse for why he didn't play well; it's actually an explanation of how he DID play well.
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Yepp.

Its a yr when our own power fwd COULDNT get up the ground like he normally does and make an impact...seemed he was somehow too restricted and out of form to make an impact near goal too. But watching some of these power fwds going around in neutral games to me where i dont care can be fantastic.

We're using Riewoldt as a bit of an example of their incredible worth but it can be equally applied to guys like Lucas who has been stiff to miss out on selection the last cpl of yrs. Sheedy even ran him in defence late in the season for some reason.

Individual moments get forgotten too...remember that "swanlake" game at the SCG last yr in atrocious conditions ?....how many times do u see big blokes dominate during a flood ?..Rarely. Rieowldt didnt kick a goal the whole game but bobbed up at FULLBACK with a minute left and the game in the balance and took a big chest mark in the pack..the prik took the game off us coz i was sure we were going to get one. He had the nouse not to go for it with his hands and the confidence not to go the punch. NO GOALS BUT BEST ON GROUND PERFORMANCE FROM A CHF. Just another example of the quality some of these blokes show week in week out that SOME people seem to totally overlook by seasons end...they just count up the goals.

The AA selectors need to look at HOW a forward played a season and in what role...this yr they seemed transfixed on Geelong...All three of Riewoldt, Lucas and Franklin had far more impact than Mooney who had silver service from a totally dominant midfield.
 
cradle of filth said:
Riewolt, Franklin and Lucas ALL had better seasons than Mooney.

But Mooney is the only one who plays for Geelong, i think this years all Australian team is classic example of how juvenile the selectors were this year by getting carried away with Geelong success.

The All Australian side is not about being in a successful side, it is purely based on individual efforts.
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Sorry I had to highlight this. We haven't had any "success" this season. We have achieved nothing thus far.

Now back to the topic. I would have had Franklin ahead of Mooney, not in the pocket, probably on a flank. No argument there. But, I would have had Mooney comfortably ahead of Riewoldt or Lucas. I'm not sure why you couldn't have squeezed in either Franklin or Mooney on the bench. They found room for Fletcher after all.
 
Inferno said:
Wrong. Johnson is small forward, the 4 players you listed are all tall KPP players. S.Johnson competed with players like Didak and Boomer Harvey for his spot in the AA side.
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Brent Harvey = 172cm
Alan Didak = 182cm
Steve Johnson = 189cm
Scott Lucas = 192cm
Nick Riewoldt = 193cm

You seriously think he's competing for a position with a bloke 17cm different but not one 3 or 4cm ?

And Didak wasn't even on the radar in 2007 - he wouldn't have been in the first half-dozen Collingwood players if they'd had any nominated.

Simple fact is that Riewoldt, Lucas, Richardson and Franklin were all far better players and gave far greater output for their respective clubs in 2007 than Steve Johnson. They had all clocked up serious numbers one month before Johnson even got on the footy ground this year.

Besides, when the AA team was being read out the other night, at no point did they divide the categories up into "Small Forwards" and "Tall Forwards" - there was simply six "Forwards" chosen. At 189 cm Steve Johnson hardly qualifies as a "Small Forward" anyway.
 
GhostofJimJess said:
Brent Harvey = 172cm
Alan Didak = 182cm
Steve Johnson = 189cm
Scott Lucas = 192cm
Nick Riewoldt = 193cm

You seriously think he's competing for a position with a bloke 17cm different but not one 3 or 4cm ?

And Didak wasn't even on the radar in 2007 - he wouldn't have been in the first half-dozen Collingwood players if they'd had any nominated.

Simple fact is that Riewoldt, Lucas, Richardson and Franklin were all far better players and gave far greater output for their respective clubs in 2007 than Steve Johnson. They had all clocked up serious numbers one month before Johnson even got on the footy ground this year.

Besides, when the AA team was being read out the other night, at no point did they divide the categories up into "Small Forwards" and "Tall Forwards" - there was simply six "Forwards" chosen. At 189 cm Steve Johnson hardly qualifies as a "Small Forward" anyway.
Click to expand...

So you haven't seen Johnson play?
 
If this thread contains the best arguments as to why Riewoldt should have been in front of Mooney I couldn't be more comfortable they made the right decision.

Mooney v Franklin and Mooney v Lucas are for another thread and in those cases, I think Mooney was lucky.
 
In these discussions, people get way too hung up on how tall footballers are and ignore the role they play.

Everyone says Brad Johnson is a small forward. In actual fact he stands 6 foot and plays as full forward or centre half forward for the Bulldogs. He leads out, takes loads of marks on the lead and is the primary target for the Dogs' midfielders. The term "small forward" implies that he is a crumber, which is simply not true. Most of his goals come from overhead marks or leads.

Don't get me wrong, I'm naturally biased towards Hawthorn players because I watch them more than any other team, but I find it pathetic that Mark Williams kicks over 60 goals TWO years in succession and is not considered for the All Australian team, mainly because the selectors consider him a full forward and compare him to guys like Fevola and Hall.

Meanwhile Brad Johnson gets chosen THREE YEARS in succession in the A/A team as a forward pocket, despite that fact that he also plays at full forward in the identical role as Mark Williams.

To top it off, Buddy Franklin kicks 73-62 for the season and misses. Just like Williams in the seasons before him, Franklin carried our forward line - yet he is overlooked for Pavlich and Brown despite averaging the same number of goals, but to add insult, Mooney and Johnson are picked in the FPs, despite averaging significantly less goals per game.

2007 - L Franklin 73 goals (22 games) - B Johnson 59 goals (21 games)
2006 - M Williams 60 goals (20 games) - B Johnson 74 goals (24 games)
2005 - M Williams 63 goals (19 games) - B Johnson 42 goals (22 games)

Johnson is named A/A three years in succession. Maybe the selector Gerard Healy wants to have sex with him

Don't give me no crap either that Johnson plays midfield. Franklin runs up the ground and gets kicks in the centre too, just like all the forwards do these days. If Johnson is not the Bulldogs' main forward target then who is?

So height is now a critical factor when we choose the A/A team?
It doesn't matter how you play, or the postion you play, but most important is filling the quotas according to players' height. How ridiculous is that? Once again, the selectors have ignored the crumbing small forwards and copped out by naming Brad Johnson.

Gary Ablett was named rover, despite the fact that he is also 6 foot and weighs more than Johnson.
Why don't the A/A selectors apply the same prejudices about height when they choose the rover?

Why don't they also name any small defenders?
i.e. defenders that stand the small forwards (C Brown played CHB, Milburn and McLeod played rebounding roles)

The A/A team has no real small defender, yet they feel compelled to select small forwards. Why is that?

They should get their heads out of their arses, stop playing favourites and just choose the best forwards, period.
 
Chewy said:
In these discussions, people get way too hung up on how tall footballers are and ignore the role they play.

Everyone says Brad Johnson is a small forward. In actual fact he stands 6 foot and plays as full forward or centre half forward for the Bulldogs. He leads out, takes loads of marks on the lead and is the primary target for the Dogs' midfielders. The term "small forward" implies that he is a crumber, which is simply not true. Most of his goals come from overhead marks or leads.

Don't get me wrong, I'm naturally biased towards Hawthorn players because I watch them more than any other team, but I find it pathetic that Mark Williams kicks over 60 goals TWO years in succession and is not considered for the All Australian team, mainly because the selectors consider him a full forward and compare him to guys like Fevola and Hall.

Meanwhile Brad Johnson gets chosen THREE YEARS in succession in the A/A team as a forward pocket, despite that fact that he also plays at full forward in the identical role as Mark Williams.

To top it off, Buddy Franklin kicks 73-62 for the season and misses. Just like Williams in the seasons before him, Franklin carried our forward line - yet he is overlooked for Pavlich and Brown despite averaging the same number of goals, but to add insult, Mooney and Johnson are picked in the FPs, despite averaging significantly less goals per game.

2007 - L Franklin 73 goals (22 games) - B Johnson 59 goals (21 games)
2006 - M Williams 60 goals (20 games) - B Johnson 74 goals (24 games)
2005 - M Williams 63 goals (19 games) - B Johnson 42 goals (22 games)

Johnson is named A/A three years in succession. Maybe the selector Gerard Healy wants to have sex with him

Don't give me no crap either that Johnson plays midfield. Franklin runs up the ground and gets kicks in the centre too, just like all the forwards do these days. If Johnson is not the Bulldogs' main forward target then who is?

So height is now a critical factor when we choose the A/A team?
It doesn't matter how you play, or the postion you play, but most important is filling the quotas according to players' height. How ridiculous is that? Once again, the selectors have ignored the crumbing small forwards and copped out by naming Brad Johnson.

Gary Ablett was named rover, despite the fact that he is also 6 foot and weighs more than Johnson.
Why don't the A/A selectors apply the same prejudices about height when they choose the rover?

Why don't they also name any small defenders?
i.e. defenders that stand the small forwards (C Brown played CHB, Milburn and McLeod played rebounding roles)

The A/A team has no real small defender, yet they feel compelled to select small forwards. Why is that?

They should get their heads out of their arses, stop playing favourites and just choose the best forwards, period.
Click to expand...

And some people get way to hung up defending their teams :rolleyes:
 

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Reiwoldt v Mooney 2007

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