Preview RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG - Team Post #391

[The_Wookie]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

ratten been saying for weeks thats what they've wanted to do

 

[The Coach]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

If Warnock is pretty fit, you think there is a fair chance it means Kreuze could come out but with Waite and Thornton not in but .....

 

[Peete]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

What I will be looking for: McLean to prove he does have a lot to contribute - we need him to. Gibbs to start delivering more. The first look at what might be "the backbone" Jamison|Henderson|Warnock|Kreuzer|Hampson
Eddie, Jeff and Walker to get a lot of the ball and play themselves back into form. Hampson and Kreuzer to start taking marks again.

No mercy, no slacking a big score - our percentage is down and we will need it.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Gibbs has to spend at least half the game in the square.
McLean has to impress if he wants to save his carlton career. He needs to be a complete role player, get to the contest and get the ball out.
If him and Robbo can extract it with Simmo and Gibbs streaking off the contest we can play some good footy.

 

[The_Wookie]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Thursday night shows, and Wednesdays AFL 360 (sorry again)

Mark Maclure on Carlton
[youtube]abMpxG6umUM[/youtube]

AFL 360 preview (probably the most extensive again)
[youtube]L36YAOViJJ0[/youtube]

League Teams
[youtube]vSRU-cp2ngM[/youtube]

Marngrook Footy Show (with Andrew Walker)
[youtube]bJvYxN10pIc[/youtube]

The Game Plan
[youtube]OnrSwgRIBBM[/youtube]

The Footy Show
[youtube]DPxp2BK5fsQ[/youtube]

 

[Big Red is back]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

That's rich coming someone with your record and attitude. The sort of supporter who whinged about not having Cotchin because Kreuzer clearly isn't 100%. Someone Judd was referring to with his comment that the footy public can't remember past the last two weeks.

Really can't be stuffed reading pre-match threads to see the likes of "I can't believe this player" was selected again. I don't think all of them will make it either, but GAGF if you don't want to support them trying to get us the four points.

Well if kruz isn't 100 percent then he won't play this week.

Mate we are all frustrated we should be a top 2 side and just got embarrassed by a side who didn't make the 8 , the battling saints and a side we beat by 10 goals in the finals.

I am not sure why you don't rate our list, as to accept the last month shows you have a much lower expectation than I do of the side.

Me, the coach, the players and the club expect top 4 and a flag , you appear happy to squeeze into the 8?

 

[KnobHead]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Well if kruz isn't 100 percent then he won't play this week.

Mate we are all frustrated we should be a top 2 side and just got embarrassed by a side who didn't make the 8 , the battling saints and a side we beat by 10 goals in the finals.

I am not sure why you don't rate our list, as to accept the last month shows you have a much lower expectation than I do of the side.

Me, the coach, the players and the club expect top 4 and a flag , you appear happy to squeeze into the 8?

Yep, it's frustrating, but media hype & expectation doesn't necessarily equal reality. Last year, we never beat a top 4 side, never came close to hawks or pies.

We have a talented list, but we lack a hulk forward who can stand up in packs & bring the ball to ground, ie. cloke / Dawes, j-pod / Hawkins, kr eddy / lynch / darling, buddy, Hurley, all from other clubs that jump to mind. The absence of a beefy forward is ok when a side is running, but in contested footy - especially finals, a hulk is crucial. The club recruited Rowe for that purpose, he's out, along with casboult, Mitchell, none of whom have played senior footy in any event. Hence, 3 ruckman r playing this weekend, presumably kruz to play permanent / hulk forward. Waite is out, but he's more a "floating" type mark than a 'crash & bash"

Hendo could perhaps fill the void, but that would b robbing the back line, guys like Watson r still young & have been well beaten when played at senior level - at this stage, watto isn't the answer 4 chb against teams we'd play in finals

Obviously, our key is our runners, nullify these guys and our deficiencies crack open. We're not designed for contested footy, hence clubs playing an extra man round stoppages / when we've tried to match that, the opposition just bring another man up.

most disappointing in recent weeks is the ease in which oppositions clear the ball in stoppages. While ratts has coped criticism from supporters, I'm not 100% convinced it's ratts. In stoppages, it seems the opposition wants the ball more while we stand back. It's easy to say the players aren't listening to the coach - because they don't understand him, that's a cop out. They understood him against collingwood. It's highly unlikely a coach would say to a player " don't get the ball, " for mine there could be three issues & all of them may apply (1) we just don't have enough contested midfield types, (2) players r looking 4 easy options, (3) coaching staff have screwed up

Thing is , we don't know whether it's (1) or (3) until we can b sure the players r fully committed. No game plan will work until the players give 100%. If they do & we're still losing , then look at the other factors

Problem now is no Murphy & carrots . Should bigger bodies like though b thrown in the midfield? Perhaps, but does he have the smarts ?

Fact is, if we have to try other options in the midfield & up forward then we're not settled. We're in a position where we're having to try new things, trying new things takes trial & error - just because something's not working doesn't mean th coaching staff aren't trying

Everyone knows there's problems, but haven't seen anyone come up with a good solution

Key problem is the top 4 contenders all have settled structures by now, we don't.

 

[Big Red is back]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Yep, it's frustrating, but media hype & expectation doesn't necessarily equal reality. Last year, we never beat a top 4 side, never came close to hawks or pies.

We have a talented list, but we lack a hulk forward who can stand up in packs & bring the ball to ground, ie. cloke / Dawes, j-pod / Hawkins, kr eddy / lynch / darling, buddy, Hurley, all from other clubs that jump to mind. The absence of a beefy forward is ok when a side is running, but in contested footy - especially finals, a hulk is crucial. The club recruited Rowe for that purpose, he's out, along with casboult, Mitchell, none of whom have played senior footy in any event. Hence, 3 ruckman r playing this weekend, presumably kruz to play permanent / hulk forward. Waite is out, but he's more a "floating" type mark than a 'crash & bash"

Hendo could perhaps fill the void, but that would b robbing the back line, guys like Watson r still young & have been well beaten when played at senior level - at this stage, watto isn't the answer 4 chb against teams we'd play in finals

Obviously, our key is our runners, nullify these guys and our deficiencies crack open. We're not designed for contested footy, hence clubs playing an extra man round stoppages / when we've tried to match that, the opposition just bring another man up.

most disappointing in recent weeks is the ease in which oppositions clear the ball in stoppages. While ratts has coped criticism from supporters, I'm not 100% convinced it's ratts. In stoppages, it seems the opposition wants the ball more while we stand back. It's easy to say the players aren't listening to the coach - because they don't understand him, that's a cop out. They understood him against collingwood. It's highly unlikely a coach would say to a player " don't get the ball, " for mine there could be three issues & all of them may apply (1) we just don't have enough contested midfield types, (2) players r looking 4 easy options, (3) coaching staff have screwed up

Thing is , we don't know whether it's (1) or (3) until we can b sure the players r fully committed. No game plan will work until the players give 100%. If they do & we're still losing , then look at the other factors

Problem now is no Murphy & carrots . Should bigger bodies like though b thrown in the midfield? Perhaps, but does he have the smarts ?

Fact is, if we have to try other options in the midfield & up forward then we're not settled. We're in a position where we're having to try new things, trying new things takes trial & error - just because something's not working doesn't mean th coaching staff aren't trying

Everyone knows there's problems, but haven't seen anyone come up with a good solution

Key problem is the top 4 contenders all have settled structures by now, we don't.

Well said but surely after this much time we would of landed on a workable structure? How many more top 10 draft picks, how much more time does one need.

Judd is 28, Scotland 31 and Waite 30 ish so time is running out. In terms of our window to win a flag this year is probably our best shot.

Especially now the superside of the last 5 years the cats are on the downswing , we won't get a better chance.

 

[ThePine]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Wookie, I love you. *no homo

 

[Peete]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Thanks Wookie

McClure's comments :

1. Murphy injury gives other players an opportunity
2. Carlton are getting smashed in clearances - need bigger bodies in there, need to change things up - Scotland/Duigan in the center with Gartlett maybe in there running around - need to clear the ball out of the congestion. Bigger bodies wont be pushed around - need to find / get bigger bodies
3. Warnock is key in the ruck
4. Kreuzer is key in forward role - to take marks

On Culture

You need to have played or barrracked for Carlton to understand...
This is a ruthless Club and that is how we like it to be

On Ratten

Carlton have levelled off over the last year
Ratten has improved the team positioning each year and he has to keep doing that
otherwise it is over.

 

[Blue since 72]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

If Joseph is going to be in the side he should either be the sub or be played in the middle (as a tagger).
In his first year he was a revelation playing as a tagger on the likes of G.Ablett. With all the quality in the midfield he has been moved to playing in the back pocket, and he is in trouble when he is one on one.

With the loss of Carrazzo (the prefered midfield tagger) I think Joseph should be moved in there with maybe Armfield being moved into a back pocket.
I have much more confidence with Armfield in a one on one than I do with joseph.

Unfortunately AJ is limited with where he can go. Yes he did a good job in a game against Ablett some years ago but the expectation of taggers these days is that you do good stuff offensively as well and he doesn't do that. That's why he doesn't do tagging roles in the middle anymore.

Adelaide's Robert Shirley was basically retired from the game because all he could do was a defensive lock down job. (both Ablett and Judd nominated him as the hardest tagger they'd delt with when he was playing)

Our midfield taggers this year have been Carrots and to a lesser degree Army, both because they can offer attacking football as well.

AJ is also not too great on small forwards both with reading the ball coming in and in the air.

That really only leaves the wings and forward line and we're pretty solid for players in those parts of the ground.

You'd assume Ratts still sees something to work with, both from a development point of view and as depth at least, otherwise they wouldn't have re-signed him.

 

[Claypigeon]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Well said but surely after this much time we would of landed on a workable structure? How many more top 10 draft picks, how much more time does one need.

Judd is 28, Scotland 31 and Waite 30 ish so time is running out. In terms of our window to win a flag this year is probably our best shot.

Especially now the superside of the last 5 years the cats are on the downswing , we won't get a better chance.

In the first 3 weeks we had a workable structure, then parts of it got exposed in Round 4. .. Its not just the structure that is having issues the players are failing to execute things as well. .. Structures cannot change over night, they are implemented in the pre-season and the season(s) before. .. I still think its mostly a lack of application by the players that are fit (our skills have been off these past few weeks too) and the injuries were more important than we initially thought. ..

However two losses don't end a season and the team has the chance to turn it around. .. This week and then a road trip next week are more important than the opponent would have us believe because the real test is in the 5 weeks after that. ..

 

[bendigoblues]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Unfortunately AJ is limited with where he can go. Yes he did a good job in a game against Ablett some years ago but the expectation of taggers these days is that you do good stuff offensively as well and he doesn't do that. That's why he doesn't do tagging roles in the middle anymore.

Adelaide's Robert Shirley was basically retired from the game because all he could do was a defensive lock down job. (both Ablett and Judd nominated him as the hardest tagger they'd delt with when he was playing)

Our midfield taggers this year have been Carrots and to a lesser degree Army, both because they can offer attacking football as well.

AJ is also not too great on small forwards both with reading the ball coming in and in the air.

That really only leaves the wings and forward line and we're pretty solid for players in those parts of the ground.

You'd assume Ratts still sees something to work with, both from a development point of view and as depth at least, otherwise they wouldn't have re-signed him.

It amazes me that AJ can be considered ahead of lucas or even boots.

I would have retained russel as a defender or thornton ahead of him. His game offers nothing, he cant compete in the air, is often caight holding the ball. Just offers so little. Furthermore he is not a player with improvement ahead of him.

To me this is the perfect game for Lucas to get more time. Boots as the sub, hell even Watson would be good.

Som guys need to get some time on the big stage, get the chance to "step up".

By the way, cant have ellard and curnow and brock in the same team.

A little dissapointed with this weeks selections.

 

[Silvagnis]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Unfortunately AJ is limited with where he can go. Yes he did a good job in a game against Ablett some years ago but the expectation of taggers these days is that you do good stuff offensively as well and he doesn't do that. That's why he doesn't do tagging roles in the middle anymore.

Adelaide's Robert Shirley was basically retired from the game because all he could do was a defensive lock down job. (both Ablett and Judd nominated him as the hardest tagger they'd delt with when he was playing)

Our midfield taggers this year have been Carrots and to a lesser degree Army, both because they can offer attacking football as well.

Disagree. Joseph is attacking and better with the ball than Armfield. Like Carrots, Joseph was a ball magnet and a midfielder as a junior. Armfield wasn't even a footballer until he dumped Union at 17. Unlike Tuohy, he hasn't really learnt how to kick, where to kick and where to run. Butchers his set shots and inside fifties.

Only thing Armfield might have over Joseph is his elite pace and possibly an ability to follow team instructions. They're the only reasons I can think of why he's named ahead of Joseph. Not saying Joseph is elite, but he is a better mark, a better kick for goal and better at playing the ball through the middle. AJ used his pace and agility against Freo last year to carry the ball on the larger Subiaco ground. Isn't a small defender.

 

[blueboy25]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Only thing Armfield might have over Joseph is his pace and possibly an ability to follow team instructions. They're the only reasons I can think of why he's named ahead of Joseph. Not saying Joseph is elite, but he is a better mark, a better kick for goal and better at playing the ball through the middle.

AJ's problem is when he has to play as a small defender. He panics and makes simple mistakes that if they are made in the midfield don't hurt you as much as when you make them inside 50.

The dropped mark and the free kick he gave away when we had a 2 on 1 against St Kilda realy hurt us.

Armfield breaks the lines and I don't think that Joseph is better in the air than Armfield and don't think either of them have proven to be better kick for goal than the other.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Hope to see Watson get a go.

Whilst I know his form in the VFL may not have warranted it, I personally think the leaving players for too long in the VFL has a detrimental effect - lower standard, scrappy football, inferior grounds can sometimes ****** the development of a player.

He was highly rated prior to the draft - let's get him in and see how goes for a 3-4 weeks and see if he can play.

 

[Blue since 72]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Disagree. Joseph is attacking and better with the ball than Armfield. Like Carrots, Joseph was a ball magnet and a midfielder as a junior. Armfield wasn't even a footballer until he dumped Union at 17. Unlike Tuohy, he hasn't really learnt how to kick, where to kick and where to run. Butchers his set shots and inside fifties.

Only thing Armfield might have over Joseph is his elite pace and possibly an ability to follow team instructions. They're the only reasons I can think of why he's named ahead of Joseph. Not saying Joseph is elite, but he is a better mark, a better kick for goal and better at playing the ball through the middle. AJ used his pace and agility against Freo last year to carry the ball on the larger Subiaco ground. Isn't a small defender.

You certainly can but Army's stats YTD say different. Kicks twice as often as he handballs and has a better disposal efficiency than Yarran, Betts and Garlett. If you want to look at a butcher going inside 50 look no further than Robbo.

Won't debate the merits of Army's footballing pedigree but has elite pace (as mentioned), has improved his disposal measurably, is hard at the ball, can push forward and kick a goal, can play the small defender role well and until he started filling holes in the last few rounds was definitely earning his keep as part of the midfield rotations.

Has more facets to his game than AJ who at this point is fairly one dimensional.

 

[happydude]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Hope to see Watson get a go.

Whilst I know his form in the VFL may not have warranted it, I personally think the leaving players for too long in the VFL has a detrimental effect - lower standard, scrappy football, inferior grounds can sometimes ****** the development of a player.

He was highly rated prior to the draft - let's get him in and see how goes for a 3-4 weeks and see if he can play.

Agreed about leaving players too long.
I have mentioned earlier that collingwood and geelong and box hill havent done too well in the vfl but their afl teams are. players dont have to set the world on fire in the 2's to get a call up but should each have individual goals set for them to reach while rotating through the 22.

for the selections so far im not too worried about them and will pass final judgement tonight when i see the final team, everything is in the the air til then.
good to see collins warnock and hopefully watson in though give them a chance to see what they can do.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Agreed about leaving players too long.
I have mentioned earlier that collingwood and geelong and box hill havent done too well in the vfl but their afl teams are. players dont have to set the world on fire in the 2's to get a call up but should each have individual goals set for them to reach while rotating through the 22.

for the selections so far im not too worried about them and will pass final judgement tonight when i see the final team, everything is in the the air til then.
good to see collins warnock and hopefully watson in though give them a chance to see what they can do.

Even at paddock football level it's sometimes just as hard to play a lower standard if you get dropped to the Magoos as it is to play the higher standard.

Mark Harvey was apparently like that. Didn't really set the world on fire at U/19 or Reserves level but was given a go at Senior level late in the season due to injury and took to it like a duck to water.

Not saying this will happen with Watson but we have the opportunity with our form and injuries to give him an extended run and see how he goes !! If Jamison and Henderson are both playing down back cannot see how he could not play as a third tall or 'go to' man just for his kicking (dare I say - like a Josh Hunt ??)..

 

[HBF]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Against Melbourne, AJ back in the team to play that run with role frees up Armfield and Ellard. He's much better through the midfield as TG has said, and what this also does is allows Tuohy to play as the small defender.

Not sure if AJ will hold his spot once Carrazzo comes back, but in the meantime we just have to play to our strengths. I suspect in the past few weeks we haven't been doing this.

 

[blueboy25]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Not saying this will happen with Watson but we have the opportunity with our form and injuries to give him an extended run and see how he goes !! If Jamison and Henderson are both playing down back cannot see how he could not play as a third tall or 'go to' man just for his kicking (dare I say - like a Josh Hunt ??)..

It was unfortunate for Watson that the times he was given a gig in the seniors last year it wasn't against one of the top 2 sides.

 

[Mr.Kennedy]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Hope to see Watson get a go.

Whilst I know his form in the VFL may not have warranted it, I personally think the leaving players for too long in the VFL has a detrimental effect - lower standard, scrappy football, inferior grounds can sometimes ****** the development of a player.

He was highly rated prior to the draft - let's get him in and see how goes for a 3-4 weeks and see if he can play.

I also hope Watson gets a go. I agree that too much time in VFL can be detrimental and he is due for a run in the Blues. Preferably for a month and re-evaluate. 2 games against top teams and then getting dropped was a bit harsh. I hope the whispers about him sulking because he isn't getting a run are not true.

 

[1981]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Double Bunkum. Yazz to hbf, Hendo to CHB are just 2.

I just hate posters that just know what this player or this coach can or cannot do. Get a clue. A senior AFL coach that cannot see strengths or weaknesses of players? Really? That's your contention? FFS. It just gets worse around here. And you had such a promising start. And just to round it out, your Watson Kennedy comparison rant. Kennedy spent nearly 2 years playing in the WAFL before getting his run in the WC side. Watson is a second year player. Get a grip son.

Hey man, you're clearly a clued up individual, but you also seriously need to chill.

 

[Peete]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

Everyone shoudl chill - we are playing with a band-aid team short a tall defender ( Watson?) and a proper defence against smalls. Tuohey is an attacking player and Joseph is an average small bodied midfielder - YarrAn doesnt know how to stop an attacker running at him - he was too used to chasing them down from behind as a forward. These are big and obvious flaws in defence. - We are middle of road back there not top4.

In midfield - we are two larger bodied players short of top4 team status - that is why we get smashed at clearances - we literally are getting biggger bodied out of contests - against the teams with them. We are nottop4 week in week out in midfield.

In Attack- we are one big bodied genuine FF short of Top2.

For us to beat the better teams - everything has to go well and we have to have our best 22 on the paddock.

So when we find two genuine smaller defenders and when we find 2 genuine larger bodied midfielders and one big bodied marking forward - we will be a fair dinkum big chance.

Each incremental move towards this - sees improvement.

That is why a Watson is a must developemnt project.
That is why it is such a shame that Rowe is unwell and Casboult and Mitchell are injured.
That is why we cant afford Laidler, Carrazo, Murphy Waite out - these guys cover for our short comings in terms of personel as above.

Collins/Lucas/Ellard/Joseph are fill players - doesnt really matter if the play or not.

Bower /Thornton/Russell - they arent top4 team AFL players.

etc etc etc

 

[viking12]

Re: RND 9 - Carlton v Melbourne Sunday 27th May 3.15PM @ MCG

with mclean named on the field,

im expecting mclean, curnow, ellard and robinson as our inside mids and judd, simpson and gibbs as our outside mids