Review Round 1, 2023 - Port Adelaide vs. Brisbane Lions

[beardancer]

Richy bombing to the wing is fine if you've got someone who can actually mark it.

None of our forwards can mark.

Our Ruckman is a very average mark.

 

[dlanod]

With all this chat about wingers, I think instead we really should be taking a step back. Most teams don't set up with such a rigid wing structure as we do, and we're seeing the downside of that. Most stack a combination of hand ball winners and burst players and put them all right in and on the contest. Keeping a player or two out leaves us shorthanded, and rarely is the winger in a position to impact the play - the opposition tend to try to force the ball straight forward rather than spread these days, and trying to tackle in the open field is very very difficult (as seen by the number of broken arm tackles from a sidestep). I don't think it's going to happen, but I'd rather see some flexibility there to be honest as well as more focus on winning or halving the contested ball even if it means letting the ball spread once we've lost it.

 

[Thomasno]

With all this chat about wingers, I think instead we really should be taking a step back. Most teams don't set up with such a rigid wing structure as we do, and we're seeing the downside of that. Most stack a combination of hand ball winners and burst players and put them all right in and on the contest. Keeping a player or two out leaves us shorthanded, and rarely is the winger in a position to impact the play - the opposition tend to try to force the ball straight forward rather than spread these days, and trying to tackle in the open field is very very difficult (as seen by the number of broken arm tackles from a sidestep). I don't think it's going to happen, but I'd rather see some flexibility there to be honest as well as more focus on winning or halving the contested ball even if it means letting the ball spread once we've lost it.

Based purely on what I saw on Saturday, I disagree. Where we were cut up was having everyone drawn into the pack trying to win the ball, which meant every time the ball went out it either went straight to the port player set up to receive, or was free to be scooped up by said player anyway.

 

[mpal6]

I was watching some clips in lions facebook (like McKenna goal for example) and the celebrations / cheering were all a bit muted. I felt the same for the first Ashcroft goal. for Horne-Francis first goal the port players pretty much came from everywhere, mobbing him.

Is there a camaraderie or bonding issue between the current group? Do they really like playing for, playing with each other? One loss and so many questions.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I was watching some clips in lions facebook (like McKenna goal for example) and the celebrations / cheering were all a bit muted. I felt the same for the first Ashcroft goal. for Horne-Francis first goal the port players pretty much came from everywhere, mobbing him.

Is there a camaraderie or bonding issue between the current group? Do they really like playing for, playing with each other? One loss and so many questions.

Maybe like us they're focussed on the bigger picture

Another season of winning 2 out of every 3 games doesn't mean much to them

 

[KissKiss]

If we don't play through our wings, they're going to get f-all disposals. And we barely play through our wings.

Most of their positions will be in our defensive 50 or forward 50, when they have rolled through to play behind our defensive or offensive set up. This was particularly noticeable watching Wilmot on the weekend. Our fat side winger covers so much ground.

This is one thing that frustrates me, when people complain about Ah Chee not racking up possessions when he plays wing. The ONLY winger we ever play through is Berry. It doesn't matter who the other wingers are, we almost completely neglect them, to the point that it really looks like a coaching instruction. Their role is to play defense and do the team things.

We barely use Berry as an option from what I've seen. Even last year you would see him make a big lead into space and one of the backs would just sit and wait for the space to get filled for ages before going long down the line. But you are right the junior wingers get used even less. I massively suspect its a tactical decision.

But I do really question its the coaching position on where they set up. On the weekend Port kept being able to pick their man outside the contest in a mile of space. We would generally hack the ball out to no where or forward to get intercepted. We dont have the forwards to contest a mark like that all day and we seem to be coaching the wings to cover the wrong spots too often against the best teams

 

[p4p1]

We barely use Berry as an option from what I've seen. Even last year you would see him make a big lead into space and one of the backs would just sit and wait for the space to get filled for ages before going long down the line. But you are right the junior wingers get used even less. I massively suspect its a tactical decision.

But I do really question its the coaching position on where they set up. On the weekend Port kept being able to pick their man outside the contest in a mile of space. We would generally hack the ball out to no where or forward to get intercepted. We dont have the forwards to contest a mark like that all day and we seem to be coaching the wings to cover the wrong spots too often against the best teams

We don't make space for our forwards to lead into either. Great forward lines create holes for the guys to lead into, even if that includes sacrificing their own lead, we don't seem to do that at all. I said it last year, watching the Eagles, who were terrible and will be terrible again this year, create so much space for Kennedy or Darling to lead into was so frustrating because we have the better cattle but still can't do that.

 

[25 years on]

At school I was taught most ball sports are games of possession, if one team has the ball the other team can’t score. So in an even game a kick up the line gives each team a 50/50 chance, if we get the ball take another kick to the fwd line another 50/50 chance. So in an even game we only have a 25% chance of getting a shot at goal, when we are being smashed in the contest are game plan fails miserably, so keeping possession even with 15 metre kicks means the opposition can’t score

 

[briztoon]

We don't make space for our forwards to lead into either. Great forward lines create holes for the guys to lead into, even if that includes sacrificing their own lead, we don't seem to do that at all. I said it last year, watching the Eagles, who were terrible and will be terrible again this year, create so much space for Kennedy or Darling to lead into was so frustrating because we have the better cattle but still can't do that.

I’ve been saying this for a couple of seasons now.

If you don’t honour Charlie’s leads, or kick it perfectly for him, he throws a mini tantrum. Such a bad look.

 

[briztoon]

I also notice Mighty Lions has been conspicuously silent, even though he checks the forum twice a day.

 

[Nathan Barley]

We don't make space for our forwards to lead into either. Great forward lines create holes for the guys to lead into, even if that includes sacrificing their own lead, we don't seem to do that at all. I said it last year, watching the Eagles, who were terrible and will be terrible again this year, create so much space for Kennedy or Darling to lead into was so frustrating because we have the better cattle but still can't do that.

I thought Gunston was meant to fix this

 

[p4p1]

I thought Gunston was meant to fix this

He can't fix 5 other forwards all heading towards the same spot on the ground.

I’ve been saying this for a couple of seasons now.

If you don’t honour Charlie’s leads, or kick it perfectly for him, he throws a mini tantrum. Such a bad look.

I agree, it is a terrible look. The frustrating thing is if he had space and it's not a perfect kick but it is to his advantage, he is probably going to burn his defender off on the way to a goal.

At school I was taught most ball sports are games of possession, if one team has the ball the other team can’t score. So in an even game a kick up the line gives each team a 50/50 chance, if we get the ball take another kick to the fwd line another 50/50 chance. So in an even game we only have a 25% chance of getting a shot at goal, when we are being smashed in the contest are game plan fails miserably, so keeping possession even with 15 metre kicks means the opposition can’t score

I feel it also forces your team mates to create some movement. On TV, which I'm sure is much different to at the ground it often looks like our guys don't move to create space for those small 15-20m kicks that would edge us forward and keep us in possession. Rather the kicker is forced to go as long and wide as he can and hope we win the contest. Of course a lot of that is also on the kicker making a quick decison when he gets the ball.

 

[M Malice]

I also notice Mighty Lions has been conspicuously silent, even though he checks the forum twice a day.

ML is Cam Bruce, under the pump at the moment, too busy to post.

 

[Elixuh]

Based purely on what I saw on Saturday, I disagree. Where we were cut up was having everyone drawn into the pack trying to win the ball, which meant every time the ball went out it either went straight to the port player set up to receive, or was free to be scooped up by said player anyway.

I don’t think using the weekend to rebut what Dlanod said is reasonable.
Saturday was down to factors of work rate, reactiveness, poor structure, inability to stick tackles and too many players committing to tackle a player or win the ball. It wasn’t purely down to what dlanod is describing.

 

[martinson]

I don’t think using the weekend to rebut what Dlanod said is reasonable.
Saturday was down to factors of work rate, reactiveness, poor structure, inability to stick tackles and too many players committing to tackle a player or win the ball. It wasn’t purely down to what dlanod is describing.

Agree . We did just about everything wrong. And one thing leads to another, sometimes not.

Surely we will come out with a totally different attitude this week which means many of the problems won't be there ,at least to the same extent.

Whether that's good enough or not I'm only hoping.

 

[LionCub29]

I am a big Hipwood fan, but his total uncompetitiveness was alarming. We need forwards to provide a contest if they can’t mark and he offered absolutely no contest. The worst game I’ve seen from him and I’m sure he’ll bounce back.

 

[25 years on]

I have mixed feelings about Chris’s coaching, I don’t think he will win a flag, but I do think he will keep us at the top end of the ladder longer than a more adventurous coach, so to see more wins over a longer time we should support Chris.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

When their big fwd are on top of our defence, why do we keep kicking to a contest which give them a good chance of sending the ball strait back?
The same at the front, if Alir is on top of our fwds why do we keep kicking the ball, to a contest in the fwd 50?

Because we don't make decisions fast enough to get it to a player running free. We dither until everyone is covered, and then we have no choice but to bomb it long and hope we take a contested grab. Port didn't do that, they always seemed to have an extra man at the outside of the contest so they could keep playing the run and handball game before kicking to forwards that actually lead, as opposed to ours who stay static.

 

[KissKiss]

I agree, it is a terrible look. The frustrating thing is if he had space and it's not a perfect kick but it is to his advantage, he is probably going to burn his defender off on the way to a goal.

With how well Hippy and Joe can lead up the ground, I'm surprised we don't move them up the wings and leave Charlie one out. Then deliberately put the ball in space for him to run onto. Chaos balls in the forward line more often is a good mix up to stop good aerial defences

 

[McIvor]

With how well Hippy and Joe can lead up the ground, I'm surprised we don't move them up the wings and leave Charlie one out. Then deliberately put the ball in space for him to run onto. Chaos balls in the forward line more often is a good mix up to stop good aerial defences

I still maintain that we got rid of the wrong fwd.

 

[beardancer]

With how well Hippy and Joe can lead up the ground, I'm surprised we don't move them up the wings and leave Charlie one out. Then deliberately put the ball in space for him to run onto. Chaos balls in the forward line more often is a good mix up to stop good aerial defences

I agree. We're using a losing tactic at the moment. Only a couple of our big men can catch it.....but we continue to bomb it long to our talls and it comes straight back. Most of the time our talls don't even get to the drop.

 

[Gibbo_88]

I have mixed feelings about Chris’s coaching, I don’t think he will win a flag, but I do think he will keep us at the top end of the ladder longer than a more adventurous coach, so to see more wins over a longer time we should support Chris.

Feel the same. Over the next 3 years we've probably got the team to be top 6 and from where we were 7 years ago, it's great to actually see wins regularly. I might have it wrong but I'm pretty sure Fagan said that the weekends loss was uncharacteristic of the team. I don't think that's true based on our proven inability to stop momentum of other teams, we can't lock the game down when we clearly need to. I'm not referring to the Demons or Cats losses where we were destroyed, the games against Tigers and Blues late last year IIRC had the opposition score 8 goals in a row and we couldn't do a thing. Premiership teams might have a 1 or 2 games where they get destroyed but we've had a few more than that.

 

[On the quiet]

I have mixed feelings about Chris’s coaching, I don’t think he will win a flag, but I do think he will keep us at the top end of the ladder longer than a more adventurous coach, so to see more wins over a longer time we should support Chris.

I do to, suspect he is a good person manager and approachable and loyal to his players (especially some of the senior ones), but all things being equal if we don't make the GF or play well in a PF, then we have regressed and need to review strongly the line coaches and whoever is responsible for overall strategy. It seems to me the big Melbourne clubs seem to add a new assistant coach every few years and some of them are former head coaches.

 

[briztoon]

I do to, suspect he is a good person manager and approachable and loyal to his players (especially some of the senior ones), but all things being equal if we don't make the GF or play well in a PF, then we have regressed and need to review strongly the line coaches and whoever is responsible for overall strategy. It seems to me the big Melbourne clubs seem to add a new assistant coach every few years and some of them are former head coaches.

It's not just Melbourne clubs.

Gold Coast has Rhyce Shaw as their development coach. He restructured their academy last year, and has moved in to the senior set up as a development coach. They have Josh Drummond AND James Frawley coaching their VFL team.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

It's not just Melbourne clubs.

Gold Coast has Rhyce Shaw as their development coach. He restructured their academy last year, and has moved in to the senior set up as a development coach. They have Josh Drummond AND James Frawley coaching their VFL team.

Maybe we should put our hand up to sign someone like Scott Pendlebury as an assistant coach (when he retires) as he said that he doesn’t mind moving interstate to coach somewhere in the future.

What we do need most importantly though, is coaches that give honest and tough feedback at times to the players and coaches around them as well to get the best out of everyone, cause atm that isn’t happening at the footy club and will ultimately cost us a premiership IMO.