Review Round 12, 2015 - Bulldogs vs Brisbane Lions

[lions2010]

Games like this are tough to accept but the reality is that we are a young inexperienced team, with no tall forward to speak of, crippled by injuries to key players and leaders, playing away from home every second week. Changing personnel, structures and location is a massive factor in these type of performances.

The Bulldogs may have a similar age profile but they have some significant advantages in building a list and confidence within the team. They play in Victoria so rarely have to suffer home sick players, play at home more often than not ( have only left the state twice to play all year!) They have several good forward prospects and have the rabid Vic media pumping their young players confidence whenever they play well.

It is easy for us supporters to hope for a contest but I think that we have to accept that we are going to suffer games like this quite a bit over the next few years. We do need to look at our drafting and focus on specific personality types based on the conditions we play under. I trust Leppa and the board are fully aware of these facts and no rash decisions will be made.

The key difference is not talent, its leadership. It was obvious last night that the bulldogs players had better leaders across the ground. Murphy, Boyd (midfield Boyd), etc lead the bulldogs team well, whilst Lions had no leadership at all. Having Rich as a leader is a concern, and further concern is Adcocks ability to lead since he was removed from captain. I dont see him directing like he used to. Then add in Zorko and he is not the same since he had more leadership duties.

This is not an ability issue, to me this is leadership and a confidence issue as a result of the lack of leadership.

It doesnt help having Rockliff out, but i think Merrett, Adcock etc need more leadership responsibilities when they are back on the park and need the vice captains role instead of Rich, Zorko.

 

[lions27]

Zorko will be lucky to get a game in a few weeks, he should be the next one after ZOB to go back in the reserves- talking midfielders. He is the weakest mozzie by a fair margin.

 

[Voss the boss]

The problem is... who else have we got? It's not like Gardiner and Andrews are massively more experienced.

I certainly appreciate that there is f- all to chose. But surely Gardner , harwood, even staker could play before Bourke and Beasley. Shit we could throw Mitch Robbo back. Just something. I even thought robew was a hbf originally and he hasnt played there.

 

[jackess]

Sorry about the result. Lions are just undermanned at the moment but there were some flashes tonight to build on.

Interesting that your list could also refer to the Bulldogs.

Young KPPs.
Libba injured.
Lost Griffen to GWS.
Sacked their coach.
Board was under siege last year.
Always on the edge financially.

Both clubs have had similar set backs recently. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Yeah I was trying to be subtle. The Bulldogs have done well from getting higher picks than us, a couple of good father sons and were gutsy getting Boyd but they're a far better side at the moment.

Main difference is the coach has been able to get their team to play a gameplan which allow them to play at a level where they can beat the best while something major has gone wrong at our club leaving the team a complete rabble who can't do most of the simple things nearly well enough.

 

[possum8]

Zorko will be lucky to get a game in a few weeks, he should be the next one after ZOB to go back in the reserves- talking midfielders. He is the weakest mozzie by a fair margin.

Our VC, Dan Rich played worse then Zorks, got a few cheapies in the final quarter to add to his huge disposal total of 12. Should he be dropped too? Who do you bring in?

 

[carnthemlions]

Oh yay, here comes the ****ing whinge-a-thon.

Redden concerns me quite a bit. He had a great start to his career but really hasn't come on since. Can only think of a handful of matches where he's had a real influence and tonight his awareness was just nonexistent. First game back from a bit of a layoff but still, you'd expect much better from him.

Most importantly though, I just don't know if he's a very good midfielder of late. For some time now he hasn't been very good at winning clearances, his tackling has been considerably down on what we've come to expect, and his ability to shepherd and make space for teammates has disappeared too.

Hard to single players out after a performance like that but it was the most concerning in a string of worrying games that Redden has had.

As for Rich, what can you say? He's a sublimely talented footballer but just does not seem to have the football smarts to match his skills. He'll quite likely be a player who looks outstanding in a good win and appalling in a bad loss for the rest of his career, I think.

Leppa mentioned leadership but it really is what we're missing. Our two most vocal players on the field over the past few seasons have been Brown and Rockliff, and to be without both for chunks of this season has made things really difficult. Taylor seems to do a bit of it but for the most part we're just silent out there. Not good.

And finally, as someone who hasn't played much football bar at a junior level I'm always hesitant to comment too strongly on gameplans, but I really don't know if this slower, more measured style is one that suits our list. We simply don't have the skills to pull it off on a number of levels - execution of the kicks, marking of the receivers, leading of the forwards when it comes to the inside 50 kicks - it's just not working.

I share your concerns re: Redden, but I just don't think he was anywhere near full fitness out there.

After having a good night's sleep, I have a new perspective:

Trade anyone who has currency now. Start a proper, focused, publicised rebuild with the board endorsing the coach to see this process through by putting forward a 5 year deal.

We haven't done a rebuild, just tried to gapfill where we could. And results over the least few years suggest this hasn't and isn't working. Any player born earlier than 95 on our list won't be part of our top 4 team, never mind a premier.

Yup, that'll work. It's not like the team isn't young enough already...

 

[Cockliff38]

The positive thing I will say is, based on last night's game at least, I know which forward target I'd rather have between McStay and Boyd.

From limited opportunities McStay was very good. Kicked 3 and could've had more but led up and marked well. Boyd got two of the softest frees 10m from goal and dropped a ball onto his foot that spilled over the line. Without sounding like a complete sook, Boyd really only did 1-2 decent things for mine.

 

[lions27]

Our VC, Dan Rich played worse then Zorks, got a few cheapies in the final quarter to add to his huge disposal total of 12. Should he be dropped too? Who do you bring in?

Rich had a poor game, Zorko has had a poor year.
Rockliff, Mayes both to come back over the next couple of weeks.
Harwood should be getting close also.

 

[carnthemlions]

The positive thing I will say is, based on last night's game at least, I know which forward target I'd rather have between McStay and Boyd.

From limited opportunities McStay was very good. Kicked 3 and could've had more but led up and marked well. Boyd got two of the softest frees 10m from goal and dropped a ball onto his foot that spilled over the line. Without sounding like a complete sook, Boyd really only did 1-2 decent things for mine.

Boyd looks like a taller version of Tom Hawkins. Will be a great contested mark, but really needs to work on the other parts of his game because there isn't a lot else there at the moment.

 

[lions27]

The positive thing I will say is, based on last night's game at least, I know which forward target I'd rather have between McStay and Boyd.

From limited opportunities McStay was very good. Kicked 3 and could've had more but led up and marked well. Boyd got two of the softest frees 10m from goal and dropped a ball onto his foot that spilled over the line. Without sounding like a complete sook, Boyd really only did 1-2 decent things for mine.

Yeah was a good game from Mcstay, thought he stayed in it for longer than usual. Hopefully a long future with the lions

 

[jackess]

I really liked Bourke's game. Will never be big enough to play on tall forwards or mobile enough to play on smalls but good depth.

 

[Skoob]

Snip>
Taylor is a good case in point - he gets the ball a lot but has to turn back because no-one will offer him anywhere to kick to - it was just a forest of blue in front of hime tonight. It was almost as if the dogs conceded the ball to him because they knew he would have to either kick it to their goal or turn it over. No teamwork or encouragement there.

Leadership extends down to the emergency player everyone has a part to play - unfortunately not in the Lions.

It's interesting that this is so often the case, but last night, it really wasn't. I was pretty pleased in the the first quarter to see a good number of players running/leading to space to provide options for the ball carrier. Unfortunately, they were most often ignored. So many times, a short option was ignored in favour of a long 50/50.
Then going inside 50, we were kicking from 70 onto the heads of packs, 20m from goal. Leuey can't mark above his head and McStay the only other option is still struggling with big packs, so what's the point. On many of those occasions we had space around the 50, and a loose man. We are ignoring too many shorter options.
At one point, the ball carrier had one Bulldog then a Lion ahead of him on the wing then empty paddock. Rather than kicking over the top to space, the choice was to kick to 3 on 2 in the middle.
Yes, continual short options can allow the attacking 50 to fill up with opposition, but while we're struggling to contest in the air (and on the ground for that matter), surely an uncontested short option is better.

My favourite play of the night was Jed's 50m rushed behind.

 

[MacMum]

I also think there should be an official complaint put in by the club in regards to the disgustingly biased commentary by ch7......from the start in their pregame show, right to the end of the game....totally lacking in respect to the opposition team, which in this case happened to be us.

...it was a disgrace and very unprofessional.

 

[Simbatheking21]

I also think there should be an official complaint put in by the club in regards to the disgustingly biased commentary by ch7......from the start in their pregame show, right to the end of the game....totally lacking in respect to the opposition team, which in this case happened to be us.

...it was a disgrace and very unprofessional.

This has been going on for ages though mate. I remember us playing geelong in geelong last season. The commentary wank off to very experienced geelong players was prutride. Commentators getting our players names wrong, the only thing they commented on Brisbane wise, was I think Darcy gardener got falconed by one of our team mates.

 

[Skoob]

I also think there should be an official complaint put in by the club in regards to the disgustingly biased commentary by ch7......from the start in their pregame show, right to the end of the game....totally lacking in respect to the opposition team, which happened to be us.

...it was a disgrace and very unprofessional.

It was very annoying (understatement of the year) but until we start to perform, there really isn't much about us to discuss. McStay took a few grabs, and that's it. We are currently just making up the numbers, while the Bulldogs are a talking point with a chance to be playing finals again. When you look at the 'inexperience watch' thread, and see that they have more youth than us, it's quite a feat.
But yeah, BT should be retired. Actually worse than Derwayne. He has all the annoying attributes of Dwayne, but delivers it with the maturity of an 8 year old on Redbulls.

 

[patfullfankezz]

He has all the annoying attributes of Dwayne, but delivers it with the maturity of an 8 year old on Redbulls.

Give me the 8 year old on Redbull any day. At least the 8 year old wouldn't be that full of their own self-importance and would do their best to give a good product.

 

[James North]

I'm really surprised that Etihad stadium still has synthetic grass right up to the boundary at the interchange area, and right up to the goal line.

 

[Elixuh]

I'm really surprised that Etihad stadium still has synthetic grass right up to the boundary at the interchange area, and right up to the goal line.

I assume they've been given independent advice that it creates no greater risk to the players. Either that or it does but removing it mid season would create an even bigger risk because of the time needed for the real grass to settle/grow.

 

[MacMum]

This has been going on for ages though mate. I remember us playing geelong in geelong last season. The commentary wank off to very experienced geelong players was prutride. Commentators getting our players names wrong, the only thing they commented on Brisbane wise, was I think Darcy gardener got falconed by one of our team mates.

Yes it has been going on for ages.....but the time has come for it to be stopped. For them to be more professional in their broadcasts.

Time for lesser struggling clubs (us in this instance) to be shown more respect, and not ridiculed or ignored in the telecast.

We will never get respect if we don't take a stand. This is just one example towards getting that respect back. Stop being a pushover by the media.

Enough is enough. Last night sickened me on so many levels, this one the most.

 

[Tassie4ever]

Ok, it's obvious we don't have the talent. This we have to accept- along with seeing Yeo starring for the WC, Docherty, Polec, Darling etc etc.

What we don't have to accept is the laziness, absence of enthusiasm, abysmal "tackling", repeated schoolboy clangers from experienced footballers [yes Redden and Lester, I'm looking at you], extremely poor coaching [free run to Boyd etc].

And just WTF has happened to Leuenberger, Rich, Redden to name a few. None of them worth a game and it's a disgrace that they are playing senior AFL football, particularly Berger. Just what has come over this bloke who we all had great hopes for. Right now his trade value would be minimal.

This game a sign of just what a parlous state our club is in- up against a busted arse club with no dough [ie the same as us] but we give in without a whimper.

Couple of Q's- do we actually do any contested hot-ball training? Do we do any hard body on body stuff? Do we do any tackling training? If we do any of this, it ain't obvious. Not sure what is going on in our club but the obvious signs are perilous.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

It's interesting that this is so often the case, but last night, it really wasn't. I was pretty pleased in the the first quarter to see a good number of players running/leading to space to provide options for the ball carrier. Unfortunately, they were most often ignored. So many times, a short option was ignored in favour of a long 50/50.
Then going inside 50, we were kicking from 70 onto the heads of packs, 20m from goal. Leuey can't mark above his head and McStay the only other option is still struggling with big packs, so what's the point. On many of those occasions we had space around the 50, and a loose man. We are ignoring too many shorter options.
At one point, the ball carrier had one Bulldog then a Lion ahead of him on the wing then empty paddock. Rather than kicking over the top to space, the choice was to kick to 3 on 2 in the middle.
Yes, continual short options can allow the attacking 50 to fill up with opposition, but while we're struggling to contest in the air (and on the ground for that matter), surely an uncontested short option is better.

My favourite play of the night was Jed's 50m rushed behind.

I agree with the short passing option, or a relay of short passes.
But it only works if we do it spontaneously, and not marking then waiting for the short option, only for the other team flooding our further options and our forward line. Like you say the first couple of options are almost always ignored. The whole team seems to do this,Clarke and Taylor I seem to notice more than any other players are guilty of this.
We are far too slow at moving on , and it seems to start from our fullback .
Merret is not the answer there either , we need to get someone in who can anchor the backs with the ability to defend well and make a decision quickly.

On another note, our running patterns and leading patterns don't seem to have much strategy about them.
When we lead into space there is no one leading into the space created, giving that flow of options.
Is this why the short option is our best at present.
That is just one observation. Fix it Leppa ffs.
And is our game plan to flood the ball space where ever it is, cause it's not working, they get it then they find players on the outside.
We get it and we are still all around the ball.

Has anyone else seen this problem , it seems to be a game plan that is not sustainable, the boys cant spread quick enough for mind, or dont have outside players with enough space to clear it efficiently.
I am really starting to hate the way we put almost all our players around the ball, more so than any other team, as the games we play in are those highly congested contests all over the park.

We are almost getting to that stage in the season where a few late wins will mean very little
I would say if we continue on this path for the rest of the year this club is screwed .
If you think that is harsh then watch what the crowd numbers for the rest of the year,( next week) which will transfer to next year .
We need to change our game plan or the coaches.

One more thing, can we stop making excuses for our so called superstars,and results its really pathetic.
Rich to me is a limited player playing in a team with poor structure and is purely and simply not a great midfielder .
Are we lacking key players all over the park or is it a little to do with the results produced from our coaches?
Rich imo still adds to our team but we need to find that tallish inside outside midfielder you know like Crisp to compliment our midfield.
Some people on here dont realize what a loss he was.

Oh yeh one last thing is a positive , I stopped watching at 3/4 time, picked up the guitar and destressed, best part of the footy.

 

[MacMum]

Ok, it's obvious we don't have the talent. .

..but we do have the talent. I am now questioning the coaching.

Injuries aside, too many of our players have gone backwards.

Why?

 

[SizeMatters]

It's interesting that this is so often the case, but last night, it really wasn't. I was pretty pleased in the the first quarter to see a good number of players running/leading to space to provide options for the ball carrier. Unfortunately, they were most often ignored. So many times, a short option was ignored in favour of a long 50/50.
Then going inside 50, we were kicking from 70 onto the heads of packs, 20m from goal. Leuey can't mark above his head and McStay the only other option is still struggling with big packs, so what's the point. On many of those occasions we had space around the 50, and a loose man. We are ignoring too many shorter options.
At one point, the ball carrier had one Bulldog then a Lion ahead of him on the wing then empty paddock. Rather than kicking over the top to space, the choice was to kick to 3 on 2 in the middle.
Yes, continual short options can allow the attacking 50 to fill up with opposition, but while we're struggling to contest in the air (and on the ground for that matter), surely an uncontested short option is better.

My favourite play of the night was Jed's 50m rushed behind.

I was screaming at my dog because of this. Taylor and a massive shocker all game with regards to this and a Berger classic early on was the icing on the cake. They work hard to get the ball on a wing and then an overlap develops but they don't use them instead look to hold onto the ball for a few seconds too long and forced to go sideways or most commonly backwards. Our team plays best when we take the game on.

 

[SizeMatters]

I agree with the short passing option, or a relay of short passes.
But it only works if we do it spontaneously, and not marking then waiting for the short option, only for the other team flooding our further options and our forward line. Like you say the first couple of options are almost always ignored. The whole team seems to do this,Clarke and Taylor I seem to notice more than any other players are guilty of this.
We are far too slow at moving on , and it seems to start from our fullback .
Merret is not the answer there either , we need to get someone in who can anchor the backs with the ability to defend well and make a decision quickly.

On another note, our running patterns and leading patterns don't seem to have much strategy about them.
When we lead into space there is no one leading into the space created, giving that flow of options.
Is this why the short option is our best at present.
That is just one observation. Fix it Leppa ffs.
And is our game plan to flood the ball space where ever it is, cause it's not working, they get it then they find players on the outside.
We get it and we are still all around the ball.

Has anyone else seen this problem , it seems to be a game plan that is not sustainable, the boys cant spread quick enough for mind, or dont have outside players with enough space to clear it efficiently.
I am really starting to hate the way we put almost all our players around the ball, more so than any other team, as the games we play in are those highly congested contests all over the park.

We are almost getting to that stage in the season where a few late wins will mean very little
I would say if we continue on this path for the rest of the year this club is screwed .
If you think that is harsh then watch what the crowd numbers for the rest of the year,( next week) which will transfer to next year .
We need to change our game plan or the coaches.

One more thing, can we stop making excuses for our so called superstars,and results its really pathetic.
Rich to me is a limited player playing in a team with poor structure and is purely and simply not a great midfielder .
Are we lacking key players all over the park or is it a little to do with the results produced from our coaches?
Rich imo still adds to our team but we need to find that tallish inside outside midfielder you know like Crisp to compliment our midfield.
Some people on here dont realize what a loss he was.

Oh yeh one last thing is a positive , I stopped watching at 3/4 time, picked up the guitar and destressed, best part of the footy.

Agree with everything posted here. 100% correct and glad someone else posted this as my opinions are mostly ignored.

 

[patfullfankezz]

Agree with everything posted here. 100% correct and glad someone else posted this as my opinions are mostly ignored.

Hey, haven't seen you around before, welcome to Bigfooty!