Autopsy Round 14, 2023: Richmond v St.Kilda

[BrutThough]

We are still getting knocked over by sides hitting low percentage shots as well. Bolton's ability to turn half chances into goals and their long range shots hitting the mark cost us. Add a few dumb turn overs and that was the difference.

Adelaide did a similar thing against us. Took a lot of shots from outside 50 so they didn't have to contend with our defenders.

Now, not every team has the players to go with that strategy but it's something we need to work on because other teams might start trying it.

 

[Yawkey way]

We need to start planning for a future without him though.

Statement has to be made at selection at some point, can't keep consistently serving up this level of footy and expect to hold your spot.

I don’t rate Daniher that highly but we can’t play Sharman or van es on debut on him so howard it is. Brisbane are a very good side who are out of form, maybe we can pinch a win but it’s not the week for dropping our only tall defender imo.

 

[gringo2011]

Great post, yep we're 5th with 113% everyone, nothing to see here. Let's not discuss and address any obvious issues because we simply can't get any better than this. What a s**t take

Not sure smugly dismissing everyone's opinion has ever changed anyone's mind. Strange technique.


Anyways, I'm a lot clearer on what we need in the side after this season. To me Lyon was potentially playing a bunch of mature guys with very limited development. So far he's been bringing through more kids than Ratts or late stage Richo while still having us in the 8. There is a really fine balance between North who still have plenty of experienced talent and youth and sides like us.

I'm not unhappy with how it's going. We are a bet each way. Staying in contention for finals while bringing through youth.

I think that was Lethlean's model for this build. Have a competitive squad that plays finals while bringing through a lot of youth.

Port fans go feral at Hinkley but he's balanced that really well. They always have quite a few kids coming through and rebuild on the fly.

 

[gringo2011]

Adelaide did a similar thing against us. Took a lot of shots from outside 50 so they didn't have to contend with our defenders.

Now, not every team has the players to go with that strategy but it's something we need to work on because other teams might start trying it.

I think a lot try it but as you said it doesn't work most of the time. Crows have Tex who is a gun long range shot and lots of those small goal sharks.

Hawks did it too. They had shots from anywhere if there was a half chance, They also pinged the ball around by hand to flummox our system which seemed to confuse us.

 

[gringo2011]

We need to start planning for a future without him though.

Statement has to be made at selection at some point, can't keep consistently serving up this level of footy and expect to hold your spot.

To me he's a good enough type but if something better came along he's the replaceable one. The defence up ahead of the midfield is still the big issue IMO. We aren't supporting defence and Howard is prone to breaking down under pressure. Having one mid playing to capacity and only Bytel come in is a big part of our issues.

 

[Saintbloke]

You can speak for yourself there, I don't think anyone here expected us to be bottom four at all.

30 in the first quarter and 40 over the next three. Can't remember the last time we kicked a ton.

Didn't hear much talk of bottom 4 this season at the cub or with supporters, seems me that everyone was talking about our march to the finals, and now the gloss is wearing off, we will just flop around and probably drop out of the eight as the second goes on..much like last year

 

[Mowman]

Brad Crouch must be bloody frustrated lately. He's giving 100%.... needs help

Steele and Ross should be embarrassed how they let him down

 

[Yawkey way]

I didn't expect bottom 4. We played a very experienced Tigers side though. This year a lot of guys like Cotchin and Martin looked past their best. They both turned back the clock.

They had Judson Clark 19, Sampson Ryan 22 who subbed out and Ralphsmith who is 21. That was their youth quota.

We had Owens, Caminiti, Windhager, Nas, Phillipou, Byrnes and Sharman added to a pretty average list. The Tigers played the bulk of their triple premiership side in conditions that suit their scrub the ball forward game style.

We are still getting knocked over by sides hitting low percentage shots as well. Bolton's ability to turn half chances into goals and their long range shots hitting the mark cost us. Add a few dumb turn overs and that was the difference.

We’re weak in the air and have too many who can’t kick, gresham and Higgins lack of range really hurts us up forward. Having said that Gresham has lost some distance which I put down to injury’s and Higgins can kick 50 it’s just you can’t rely on him with anything over 40. Higgins at least does work hard on his kicking, he’s often seen working on it at the ammo’s ground.

 

[George]

Not sure smugly dismissing everyone's opinion has ever changed anyone's mind. Strange technique.

You sure you quoted the right person? My opinion is the one that was smugly dismissed and so I responded.

In regards to what the side needs, we didn't need Lyon to tell us that. We've known about our lack of midfield quality for several years.

 

[phantom13]

He’s no buckets but it’s not a weakness, generally I want the ball in the hands of guys who use it well as much as possible. I’m not sure it’s practical the way the ball is switched etc to have a guy barely touching it but I wouldn’t have him kicking out and he’d have clear instructions to give the ball off or as you say long down the line.

The issue i usually see with Doogs is if hes under little to no pressure he makes the worst possible decision.

If we can have him stand on Hawkins/Fogarty/Daniher etc and keep them very quiet, give a 30m fist to the boundary for a few packs and block out the big boys for Wilkie/Roma/Sharman/Whoever to take uncontsted intercepts then IMO hes doing his job.

Hes extremely limited in what he can and should do but he can play an pretty important role.

 

[Mowman]

Not sure smugly dismissing everyone's opinion has ever changed anyone's mind. Strange technique.


Anyways, I'm a lot clearer on what we need in the side after this season. To me Lyon was potentially playing a bunch of mature guys with very limited development. So far he's been bringing through more kids than Ratts or late stage Richo while still having us in the 8. There is a really fine balance between North who still have plenty of experienced talent and youth and sides like us.

I'm not unhappy with how it's going. We are a bet each way. Staying in contention for finals while bringing through youth.

I think that was Lethlean's model for this build. Have a competitive squad that plays finals while bringing through a lot of youth.

Port fans go feral at Hinkley but he's balanced that really well. They always have quite a few kids coming through and rebuild on the fly.

Unlike years gone by I have a lot of hope going forward
Owens- NWM - Windhager- The Pou - Caminiti- King - Higgins
Lyon has played the kids every time he can. Saturday nights loss is on no one but the players. Howard and Wilkie gave up 5 goals from stupid mistakes

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Not sure how anyone can be confident of finals from here. On paper we will win 1 game in the next month. That leaves us at 9 and 8 and on the outside looking in for finals. Even West Coast in Perth has me slightly nervous. That's the issue with both our game style and the ingrained weak mentality, we could beat anyone on our day or lose to anyone as well, just never know who's gonna turn up. Haven't won more then 1 game in a row since Essendon. Being such a poor offensive team means smaller margin for error and games are never over. It's a recipe for disaster with this group of senior players who struggle when it matters.

 

[Yawkey way]

Unlike years gone by I have a lot of hope going forward
Owens- NWM - Windhager- The Pou - Caminiti- King - Higgins
Lyon has played the kids every time he can Saturday nights loss is on no one but the players. Howard and Wilkie gave up 5 goals from stupid mistakes

Wilkie had a poor night but the defence was overwhelmed by our mids getting smacked. That vision of seb ross on Taranto was just embarrassing and we played like that most of the night.

 

[Mowman]

I didn't

Me either
7th or 8th

 

[phantom13]

Didn't hear much talk of bottom 4 this season at the cub or with supporters, seems me that everyone was talking about our march to the finals, and now the gloss is wearing off, we will just flop around and probably drop out of the eight as the second goes on..much like last year

I said 6-14th was wide open and extremely likely for us at the start of the year.

I still personally dont really care if we make or miss finals, were not winning a flag this year and 6th with one finals win might help a bit whilst also sliding our draft hand.

I cant really say i understand the despair after this loss, the hawks loss, sure, we looked shit against a side that isnt much more than pluck and attitude. Richmond still has absolute champion footballers all over the park and it was pissing down which suits the more mature players and bodies.

Pou, Windy, Owens, King, Battle and some supporting cast around them look to be a very good core to me.

 

[BrutThough]

Not sure how anyone can be confident of finals from here. On paper we will win 1 game in the next month. That leaves us at 9 and 8 and on the outside looking in for finals. Even West Coast in Perth has me slightly nervous. That's the issue with both our game style and the ingrained weak mentality, we could beat anyone on our day or lose to anyone as well, just never know who's gonna turn up. Haven't won more then 1 game in a row since Essendon. Being such a poor offensive team means smaller margin for error and games are never over. It's a recipe for disaster with this group of senior players who struggle when it matters.

The games aren't played on paper.

Why mope about poor results before the games have been played?

 

[Mowman]

Wilkie had a poor night but the defence was overwhelmed by our mids getting smacked. That vision of seb ross on Taranto was just embarrassing and we played like that most of the night.

mate

But Seb has been doing this for years
West Coast when he was on Kelly
Essendon game at Marvel where he let his
Man run straight past him into goal
He needs to go

 

[phantom13]

Thats probably (to me at least) the most interesting thing to watch now.

Doogs, Ross and a few others would have to be in he gun but will Ross have the balls to pull the trigger, especially if we dont have the cattle in the twos?

 

[Sully111]

We miss simple targets by foot. Hill Does it, Nas can do it, ever Stocker had some absolute clangers that put us under pressure

 

[pebblesofsand]

Great post, yep we're 5th with 113% everyone, nothing to see here. Let's not discuss and address any obvious issues because we simply can't get any better than this. What a s**t take

Wow - interesting post. I'll repeat the facts

We are 5th, we do have 113%, we are two games clear of ninth, Cooper Sharman will not play as a full back on Daniher or Hipwood next Friday night and Hotton and Connolly will not replace Seb or Steele.

As for getting better, the answer is clear



PS - a little reminder for you

"We will have zero tolerance for posting that is designed to make other posters time here less pleasant or generally bring the tone of the board down.
This can include:

Any kind of abuse/denigration of a fellow St.Kilda poster (even if in retaliation).

Bullying.

Disruptive posting.

Undermining mods in doing their jobs.

Trolling other posters by way of either posting or reacting ("like", "laugh", "wow", etc) to their posts.

In short, treat others the way you wish to be treated even if you feel they are not treating you that way."

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Wow - interesting post. I'll repeat the facts

We are 5th, we do have 113%, we are two games clear of ninth, Cooper Sharman will not play as a full back on Daniher or Hipwood next Friday night and Hotton and Connolly will not replace Seb or Steele.

As for getting better, the answer is clear

View attachment 1716320

PS - a little reminder for you

"We will have zero tolerance for posting that is designed to make other posters time here less pleasant or generally bring the tone of the board down.
This can include:

Any kind of abuse/denigration of a fellow St.Kilda poster (even if in retaliation).

Bullying.

Disruptive posting.

Undermining mods in doing their jobs.

Trolling other posters by way of either posting or reacting ("like", "laugh", "wow", etc) to their posts.

In short, treat others the way you wish to be treated even if you feel they are not treating you that way."

No, but Cordy could replace Howard (he was supposed to be key position depth when signed), Owens or even Bytel could replace Ross. To me it would be absolute insanity to role out the Steele, Ross and Crouch midfield again this Friday.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

The games aren't played on paper.

Why mope about poor results before the games have been played?

LOL not moping just giving an honest opinion when posters were saying they were still confident of finals from here.

 

[Sully111]

Wow - interesting post. I'll repeat the facts

We are 5th, we do have 113%, we are two games clear of ninth, Cooper Sharman will not play as a full back on Daniher or Hipwood next Friday night and Hotton and Connolly will not replace Seb or Steele.

As for getting better, the answer is clear

View attachment 1716320

PS - a little reminder for you

"We will have zero tolerance for posting that is designed to make other posters time here less pleasant or generally bring the tone of the board down.
This can include:

Any kind of abuse/denigration of a fellow St.Kilda poster (even if in retaliation).

Bullying.

Disruptive posting.

Undermining mods in doing their jobs.

Trolling other posters by way of either posting or reacting ("like", "laugh", "wow", etc) to their posts.

In short, treat others the way you wish to be treated even if you feel they are not treating you that way."

Your post he replied to was pretty condescending mate. Hardly think you're a victim here.

 

[luca77]

Great post, yep we're 5th with 113% everyone, nothing to see here. Let's not discuss and address any obvious issues because we simply can't get any better than this. What a s**t take

I don't see why it's necessary to begin with "Great post", or end with "What a shit take".
Pretty hard to pull other people up for disrespectful behaviour when you're acting like this.

 

[BrutThough]

PS - a little reminder for you

"We will have zero tolerance for posting that is designed to make other posters time here less pleasant or generally bring the tone of the board down.
This can include:

Any kind of abuse/denigration of a fellow St.Kilda poster (even if in retaliation).

Bullying.

Disruptive posting.

Undermining mods in doing their jobs.

Trolling other posters by way of either posting or reacting ("like", "laugh", "wow", etc) to their posts.

In short, treat others the way you wish to be treated even if you feel they are not treating you that way."

That's not a serious policy on here and we've lost multiple good posters as a result. Don't let yourself become the next one for pointing it out.