Preview Round 15 St Kilda vs Essendon

[StFly]

Good side, i think it's time we all stopped whinging about selections,Kosi was a monty to play and he'll play off the bench with Macca.Wilkes will line up at FF at the start and Saad will be the sub.

3 hours after they're announced and you already want everyone to shut up shop re discussion of merits with the team? This is where the image from the Castle goes, because frankly that's unrealistic.

We are in serious need of defensive pressure as that's been our achilles heel so Jones and Ray in is pretty much a MUST to address this serious problem and besides they can help Lenny out and allow our other midfielders more outside run. So you are not a fan of their disposal but the thing is there is noone else to bring in and you know something i'd rather bring them in and give 100% which is what you wanted as well then play air heads or younger blokes not up to it.

It's not that I'm "not a fan", it's that blind freddy can see a vast majority of scores for a side come from opposition turnovers and the past 2 years the crux of our line up has been the half forward line leaking like a sieve which not coincidentally is where sides generate a lot of their attacking options. Yet we continue to persist with blokes who can't hit a target over 20m.

Ray earned his call up, no question about it, but did Jones? Could we not have trialled Ledger? Ross? Curren? Markworth? Why must it always be Jones? Because he tags? So, well be not expecting him to do anything but lay tackles, smother and run as we're all happy we're preferring that over others who might be able to kick forward with any competency, mark, spread or perhaps kick goals from the midfield?

As for the blokes with few games under their belt how can you be dissapointed? Siposs and Simpkin are the future of the club and must be getting game time.

My posts are earlier in this thread where I'm adamant we need to either get or start using multiple plans within games rather than sticking with the same single structure of 3-2-3 KP. Frankly because I refuse to sit through yet another Essendon game where their mids work far harder than ours and we again get carved up by individuals who can kick, hitting targets, getting the overlap and watch them either slot it from 50 or hit a leading target on the tit whilst we bomb it on Rooeys head and expect him to nab it vs 2.

But you're all "extremely happy" that's what we'll have a very real liklihood of getting. Again.

As for Wilkes inclusion. That speaks for itself where Kosi will be spending time this weekend and while i'm not overly enthused he's still playing i can understand why they kept him in the side even though i don't agree with it. If we can't play Wilkes now then why on earth is he on the list? Now is the time to see if he can cut it in the big league.

3 forced changes + 2 omissions equates to 2 changes since 3 were forced after a heavy loss which saw us drop a game out of the 8 instead of a game clear like we had hoped. Effectively we kept the core of the underperforming side so they could underperform again whilst batted about 5 changes and aren't we being different with our lineup all of a sudden.

I'm saying it should have been harsher, I'm saying our midfield as it stood before was not performing, I'm saying there were options besides the Jones addition, I'm saying that, shock horror, you can play a game and succeed breaking even in the ruck with a more dominant midfield that we don't always have to have 2 ruckmen, similarly 3 tall forwards, there are other ways we're not even trying and it's obviously shitting me we can continually dish up that crap and people and the club are happy with 2 changes that weren't forced upon them.

I'm at the end of my rope with this excreting gold sentiment with team discussions. There are blokes named who shouldn't be and in my book that means fornicate them off until they earn it.

 

[The Fact]

I think he is a better match up for Fletcher than Hooker or Hardingham.

Riewoldt needs to play CHB/CHF rotate ruck.

I don't want to watch a game where Kozi plays forward and is too slow for Hooker/Fletcher or even Hardingham.

And certainly don't want to watch a game whereby Riewoldt takes a couple of uncontested marks 80 metres from goal to prove he can lead faster than Fletcher (a 37 year old veteran).

Wilkes for Full Forward.

Kozi and Roo can get back their prized glamour forward spots once the team starts winning again. And both start kicking straight!

Kozi/Roo to rotate Ruck/CHB/CHF and help out Macca!

It's up to you guys really but i would have thought he is the last player you would want on him, a tall forward that isn't that great and isn't really going to be used. Thats what fletch normally feeds off, in recent time its been mid sized mid/forwards that have had the most success.

IMO if he was playing i would have liked to see goddard go up forward and play on him but i'm not sure who else really fills this idea in your team to play on him.

 

[Tragic sainter]

I think he is a better match up for Fletcher than Hooker or Hardingham.

Riewoldt needs to play CHB/CHF rotate ruck.

I don't want to watch a game where Kozi plays forward and is too slow for Hooker/Fletcher or even Hardingham.

And certainly don't want to watch a game whereby Riewoldt takes a couple of uncontested marks 80 metres from goal to prove he can lead faster than Fletcher (a 37 year old veteran).

Wilkes for Full Forward.

Kozi and Roo can get back their prized glamour forward spots once the team starts winning again. And both start kicking straight!

Kozi/Roo to rotate Ruck/CHB/CHF and help out Macca!

CTD you keep harping on about roo's and kosi's goal kicking accuracy when in previous threads you've been proven wrong. So can you please stop, everyone is pretty sick of reading about it. Roo has been the best CHF of the last ten years, you don't just change his position.

 

[saber_32au]

Ray earned his call up, no question about it, but did Jones? Could we not have trialled Ledger? Ross? Curren? Markworth? Why must it always be Jones? Because he tags? So, well be not expecting him to do anything but lay tackles, smother and run as we're all happy we're preferring that over others who might be able to kick forward with any competency, mark, spread or perhaps kick goals from the midfield?

Spot on mate. Would have loved to have seen Curren play, who not only has been playing fantastically well in the VFL, but can play both as an offensive midfielder, or a tagger, who can hurt the opposition going the other way, and has very good disposal to boot.

My posts are earlier in this thread where I'm adamant we need to either get or start using multiple plans within games rather than sticking with the same single structure of 3-2-3 KP. Frankly because I refuse to sit through yet another Essendon game where their mids work far harder than ours and we again get carved up by individuals who can kick, hitting targets, getting the overlap and watch them either slot it from 50 or hit a leading target on the tit whilst we bomb it on Rooeys head and expect him to nab it vs 2.

But you're all "extremely happy" that's what we'll have a very real liklihood of getting. Again.

That's what I fear as well. Even if we can shut down Watson/Stanton, Essendon are a quick, skilled team, who'll take the game on, and regularly hit targets over 40m away.

The problem for us will be scoring goals. Our disposal into the F50 is poor to say the least. Not only do we bomb it long and high to Roo, we do it to Kosi, to Stanley, to Saad, Milne and any other player playing forward.

FFS, drill the ball into the F50, to the advantage of the leading forward, not bomb it high, letting Fletcher or any other Essendon defender time to run, jump and punch the ball.

Unfortunately, how many players have the skill to successfully complete such a kick? Goddard (but he's not playing), Schneider, Dal Santo, Gwilt, Siposs, Fisher (possibly). Maybe we have too few top quality kicks in the team???

 

[CrashTestDummy]

CTD you keep harping on about roo's and kosi's goal kicking accuracy when in previous threads you've been proven wrong. So can you please stop, everyone is pretty sick of reading about it. Roo has been the best CHF of the last ten years, you don't just change his position.

The last game that Roo had his kicking boots on was against the Suns.
Last week, Kozi couldn't manage to get a kick.

Nick Riewoldt is a superstar. But that doesn't mean he should play the same role week-in week- out. Poor Service, Schmoor Service out of the middle it really doesn't matter anyway. But I reckon Wilkes is better in front of goal these days.

I don't mean to single out Roo or Kozi. Both have given over and above for the Red, White & Black.
But this week we go in short. (No Blake, No Stanley, No 2nd ruck) That's an undeniable fact.

Surely, Superstars can adapt given the circumstances.

And surely our forward line including Milney, Saad, Schneider etc... can muster some pride by kicking straight and not give the Bombers the inside 50 avalanche result that they dearly want to keep a high percentage top 4 spot finish. Roo might be the key to stemming the haemorrhage flow this week. If he can play on the ball or at CHB for periods.

Maybe you think I'm singling people out. But hey Blake, Stanley, Goddard can all play on-ball, forward and back. Can Roo or Kozi?

Or do we just stick with the same old same old and get pulverized this week?

Sometimes a slight change of plan isn't such a bad thing. Especially, given the circumstances etc..-> (No Blake, No Stanley, No 2nd ruck)

So in the words of Billy Beane ---> "What's the problem?"

To which I say ---> "There's no PLAN B". If Roo and Kozi play their normal forward roles this week the Saints will cop a schellacking. BOOKMARK IT! I mean seriously do the Saints footy club have to telegraph all of their strategies to the opposition every week!

Someone is going to have to chop out Ryder's lead all night when he goes forward. While Chips and the Colac Lad mind Hurley. A loose man in defence better be tall and quick or it will be Silverchair Pure Massacre time. I just hope we don't decide to put a loose man in defence when the game is shot to bits and we are down by 8 goals at Half-Time.

And I don't care if Essendon kick 25 goals against us, as long as the Saints can kick 26! With some dead-eye kicking.

Anyway, look forward to everyone venting about Raph Clarke, Gilbert, Milney, Clint Jones & Schneider next week because it will be all their fault again.

Oh and Siposs should be dropped after the Adelaide game. Who is the moron that decided that?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The last game that Roo had his kicking boots on was against the Suns.
Last week, Kozi couldn't manage to get a kick.

Nick Riewoldt is a superstar. But that doesn't mean he should play the same role week-in week- out. Poor Service, Schmoor Service out of the middle it really doesn't matter anyway. But I reckon Wilkes is better in front of goal these days.

I don't mean to single out Roo or Kozi. Both have given over and above for the Red, White & Black.
But this week we go in short. (No Blake, No Stanley, No 2nd ruck) That's an undeniable fact.

Surely, Superstars can adapt given the circumstances.

And surely our forward line including Milney, Saad, Schneider etc... can muster some pride by kicking straight and not give the Bombers the inside 50 avalanche result that they dearly want to keep a high percentage top 4 spot finish. Roo might be the key to stemming the haemorrhage flow this week. If he can play on the ball or at CHB for periods.

Maybe you think I'm singling people out. But hey Blake, Stanley, Goddard can all play on-ball, forward and back. Can Roo or Kozi?

Or do we just stick with the same old same old and get pulverized this week?

Sometimes a slight change of plan isn't such a bad thing. Especially, given the circumstances etc..-> (No Blake, No Stanley, No 2nd ruck)

So in the words of Billy Beane ---> "What's the problem?"

To which I say ---> "There's no PLAN B". If Roo and Kozi play their normal forward roles this week the Saints will cop a schellacking. BOOKMARK IT! I mean seriously do the Saints footy club have to telegraph all of their strategies to the opposition every week!

Someone is going to have to chop out Ryder's lead all night when he goes forward. While Chips and the Colac Lad mind Hurley. A loose man in defence better be tall and quick or it will be Silverchair Pure Massacre time. I just hope we don't decide to put a loose man in defence when the game is shot to bits and we are down by 8 goals at Half-Time.

And I don't care if Essendon kick 25 goals against us, as long as the Saints can kick 26! With some dead-eye kicking.

Anyway, look forward to everyone venting about Raph Clarke, Gilbert, Milney, Clint Jones & Schneider next week because it will be all their fault again.

Oh and Siposs should be dropped after the Adelaide game. Who is the moron that decided that?

I'm sure that Raph will cause some sort of commotion in the grandstand that will ultimately cost StKilda the game.

I'd almost go with Simpkin on Ryder, I think he's a bit quicker and better one on one ( at the spoil ) than Gilber. Otherwise I'd go with Gilbert.
Gwilt on Hurley, with Fisher loose , lending support. If it doesn't work they need to swap.

Jones should be a dedicated tagger.
Good thing about having both Ray and Geary is that they don't NEED to tag. They can either take turns on the same player, both attack , or tag two other players. Maybe Geary should be just playing an accountable role in the back line.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Sorry, but I'm with Fly on this one.

The purpose of this season has changed. It is virtually impossible that we will play finals, and so the purpose becomes blooding kids in strategic areas. This was the week to start doing that. I recognise that you don't want to throw an ocean of newbies to the wolves of a Top-4 side. But you CAN choose to give games to a few young players who have been demanding a spot.

Dropping Jones for the Kangas game was a big call. But if you've made the call, MAKE the call. Don't bring him back with your tail between your legs the next week. Watters was stating that an okay player who was older was expendible. That has not been disproven by last week's performance. It was confirmed. Curren should have been promoted or Ross played. Neither is as good as Jones yet, but they are better kicks already, and like I said, the purpose of these last 7ish games of the season has radically changed. Jones is not part of that purpose.

And no matter how bad Gilbert could be in the ruck, he will not be as utterly embarrassingly putrid as Kosi has been, for well on three years. I am thoroughly over it.

Two more things. Firstly, the evidence of lunacy is doing the same thing over and over when it has repeatedly not worked. That is pretty much precisely what we have done in this team selection. Secondly, Watters said that he would reward VFL form and PLAY KIDS. He has kinda kept one of those promises (with Simpkin and Ray, both of whom should never have been dropped in the first place), but I call "bullocks" on the second one. I for one am getting extremely tired of his petty fibbing.

 

[Persevering Saint]

And one more thing. We will lose this week. We were always going to lose this week. We are going to lose huge. The only hope of a positive that would come from this week is looking at some young blood getting a taste. We lose with a few more young'uns in, and we at least can hold our head high and say the kids got a lesson. Now we're losing for the same reason we've been losing for the last two years - a bunch of oldies holding on to past glories, now long past. One option has hope. The other is hopeless. Completely. Utterly. Hopeless.

I'm going to go watch netball or some other form of punishment this weekend.

 

[Terror Time]

And one more thing. We will lose this week. We were always going to lose this week. We are going to lose huge. The only hope of a positive that would come from this week is looking at some young blood getting a taste. We lose with a few more young'uns in, and we at least can hold our head high and say the kids got a lesson. Now we're losing for the same reason we've been losing for the last two years - a bunch of oldies holding on to past glories, now long past. One option has hope. The other is hopeless. Completely. Utterly. Hopeless.

I'm going to go watch netball or some other form of punishment this weekend.

Maybe we will, maybe we won't but are you sure you support this club 100%? No team has beaten us by more then around 30 points this season and i hate to break it to you but we have played better teams then Essendon. Or do you think Goddard or playing untried younger guys is the difference between being right in it and being completely and utterly uncompetetive as you are putting it? Please!

Here's my take. Ray and Jones alone will do more then all our outs combined this week and will be a big reason why we either win or narrowly go down yet again.

By my reckoning, we now have 2 added midfielders to our current five which puts us where the top clubs are. Add Gram if he actually gave a stuff and tried this week.

How many sides can boast a midfield of Armitage, Steven, Hayes, Montagna, Dal Santo, Ray, Jones and Gram who can all get plenty of it. Sheer weight of numbers means there is no reason we don't run this game out strongly.

This game is more then winnable but i hope for teams sake they don't share your attitude.

 

[stkildathunda]

Got it on good authority that Essendon will be flying out tonight so they dont have a repeat of last time where they couldnt make game on time

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Maybe we will, maybe we won't but are you sure you support this club 100%? No team has beaten us by more then around 30 points this season and i hate to break it to you but we have played better teams then Essendon. Or do you think Goddard or playing untried younger guys is the difference between being right in it and being completely and utterly uncompetetive as you are putting it? Please!

Here's my take. Ray and Jones alone will do more then all our outs combined this week and will be a big reason why we either win or narrowly go down yet again.

By my reckoning, we now have 2 added midfielders to our current five which puts us where the top clubs are. Add Gram if he actually gave a stuff and tried this week.

How many sides can boast a midfield of Armitage, Steven, Hayes, Montagna, Dal Santo, Ray, Jones and Gram who can all get plenty of it. Sheer weight of numbers means there is no reason we don't run this game out strongly.

This game is more then winnable but i hope for teams sake they don't share your attitude.

One area we have been struggling has been with oversize forwards.
Last week we had three over 197cm I think.
Makes it hard for our 191cm and less to get a fist on it.

Now Hille is a big bloke, but maybe not as quick as some, and while they are good players, Ryder and Hurley wont beat us on pure size, and may allow our defenders to display some of their talent.

 

[Persevering Saint]

TT, your post shows the CLASSIC confusion. If a supporter says we will lose a game, the assumption is that this means they don't support the club. That is just categorically naive and fails to understand a key principle:

It is not about winning the battle, but winning the war.​

​

I am not fixated on winning every game. That is unrealistic as a goal. I am interested in us being in a position to win that one game in September.​

​

Furthermore, stating the bleeding obvious and saying that we will lose to a top-4 side, when we have been beaten by Port, Freo and North this year (one of which was last week), is not disloyalty. It's reality. The question is not how we pull off the impossible and somehow win this game. The question we should be asking, what I am asking, and what Watters damn well should be asking, is this: how can we use any game, even if we probably will lose it, to help us to win the next premiership for this club?​

​

We will not win the next premiership by playing solid veterans (Kosi, Jones, Blake, for example) instead of youth. We will win the next premiership by playing exceptional older players (Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo, Fisher, Milne, Schneider) alongside youth who can learn from them on the field, and by playing solid 24yo+ players who will become the experienced veterans of the future. Every game that young midfielders like Ross, Curren, Ledger etc do not play this year, is a game they will miss the chance to play and learn from Lenny Hayes.​

 

[Jade]

He should play deep & lead from the square. I would love to see him match up on Fletcher.

Wouldn't you be worried Fletcher will carve him up?

Generally to negate Fletcher you need a very good mid sized player who is quick enough and smart enough to effectively tag him out of the game. Is Wilkes up to that?

I would have thought the best way for you guys to negate him would be to try and empty the forward line out (ie. Stack our backline), and give Kois / Roo / Milne as much space as possible to lead into. The more space you can create the less likely Fletcher is to act as third man up. You'd have to back yourselves to win a fair amount of the ball through the middle though.

 

[mysainters]

At least we will be going in with a different plan.

Different coach, different lineup, different method.

Will that = different result?

Not sure, but it won't be the same old.

 

[Jade]

At least we will be going in with a different plan.

Different coach, different lineup, different method.

Will that = different result?

Not sure, but it won't be the same old.

Yeah true that - very worried about this game.

 

[hayes]

Same slow players though, particularly in the midfield. I think they're going to be too quick for us to put any sort of pressure on them and will run riot like they usually do. Stranger things have happened though and of course I'd like nothing more than to be wrong but I just can't see it happening.

If we get another shellacking I think we'll start to really see the changes that everyone wants.

 

[Terror Time]

TT, your post shows the CLASSIC confusion. If a supporter says we will lose a game, the assumption is that this means they don't support the club. That is just categorically naive and fails to understand a key principle:

It is not about winning the battle, but winning the war.​

​

I am not fixated on winning every game. That is unrealistic as a goal. I am interested in us being in a position to win that one game in September.​

​

Furthermore, stating the bleeding obvious and saying that we will lose to a top-4 side, when we have been beaten by Port, Freo and North this year (one of which was last week), is not disloyalty. It's reality. The question is not how we pull off the impossible and somehow win this game. The question we should be asking, what I am asking, and what Watters damn well should be asking, is this: how can we use any game, even if we probably will lose it, to help us to win the next premiership for this club?​

​

We will not win the next premiership by playing solid veterans (Kosi, Jones, Blake, for example) instead of youth. We will win the next premiership by playing exceptional older players (Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo, Fisher, Milne, Schneider) alongside youth who can learn from them on the field, and by playing solid 24yo+ players who will become the experienced veterans of the future. Every game that young midfielders like Ross, Curren, Ledger etc do not play this year, is a game they will miss the chance to play and learn from Lenny Hayes.​

bolded (1) - You didn't say we would just lose mate, you said alot more then that and it's your attitude

bolded (2) - Hello? Melbourne beat Essendon, North got within 2 points and Gold Coast within 17 yet you are pumping them up like the greatest side of the modern era. Sure they beat some good sides including West Coast by a gap yet the saints haven't been out of any game this year including a good win over Sydney where the scoreline didn't reflect the dominance

Rest of your post i can see your point to a degree however i'm sitting on the fence on this. After watching the press conferences this week, the players and coach have not given up on season 2012 and are going into this game with a job to do and that is WIN and keep our season in tact so i'm with them!

Only one area where i completely disagree with Watters and team structure be damned and that's playing Kosi and Gram to a lesser extent. They should have been dropped. Then again they should have been dropped along time ago. I can only hope he's warned them they are close to the end of their careers unless they seriously change their attitude. Would of had no problem bringing in whoever you wanted for either of them.

In any case we are not the rabble you are making us out to be. We can beat anyone and if only the players believed it and gave 100% from EVERYONE then we'll beat Essendon into the netherworld and beyond this week!

 

[mysainters]

I don’t think it’s same slow players.

I also think the emergency list should be treated as an extended squad, and they will likely run out very different Saturday night.

Don’t forget that last year, we had no Lenny, he is a pretty handy in. All this talk about Kosi having a crapper v Essendon, he didn’t play last time either.

Gamble was played from memory on Fletcher last time?

I think nobody can have any preconceived ideas this time around, good or bad.

 

[saintsrfreak]

I don’t think it’s same slow players.

I also think the emergency list should be treated as an extended squad, and they will likely run out very different Saturday night.

Don’t forget that last year, we had no Lenny, he is a pretty handy in. All this talk about Kosi having a crapper v Essendon, he didn’t play last time either.

Gamble was played from memory on Fletcher last time?

I think nobody can have any preconceived ideas this time around, good or bad.

Wasn't it Tom Lynch on Fletcher? I remember Fletcher toweling him up

 

[hayes]

I don’t think it’s same slow players.

I also think the emergency list should be treated as an extended squad, and they will likely run out very different Saturday night.

Don’t forget that last year, we had no Lenny, he is a pretty handy in. All this talk about Kosi having a crapper v Essendon, he didn’t play last time either.

Gamble was played from memory on Fletcher last time?

I think nobody can have any preconceived ideas this time around, good or bad.

Was Lenny there for the previous 3 times they flogged us?

TBH I'd like to see at least 2 of the emergencies come in because they're all quick but for one of the very few times this season I think we'll run out unchanged. Not overly confident about this game, but stranger things have happened.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Wasn't it Tom Lynch on Fletcher? I remember Fletcher toweling him up

That was Lynch's first game a couple of years ago I think.

 

[Plugger35]

bolded (1) - You didn't say we would just lose mate, you said alot more then that and it's your attitude

bolded (2) - Hello? Melbourne beat Essendon, North got within 2 points and Gold Coast within 17 yet you are pumping them up like the greatest side of the modern era. Sure they beat some good sides including West Coast by a gap yet the saints haven't been out of any game this year including a good win over Sydney where the scoreline didn't reflect the dominance

Rest of your post i can see your point to a degree however i'm sitting on the fence on this. After watching the press conferences this week, the players and coach have not given up on season 2012 and are going into this game with a job to do and that is WIN and keep our season in tact so i'm with them!

Only one area where i completely disagree with Watters and team structure be damned and that's playing Kosi and Gram to a lesser extent. They should have been dropped. Then again they should have been dropped along time ago. I can only hope he's warned them they are close to the end of their careers unless they seriously change their attitude. Would of had no problem bringing in whoever you wanted for either of them.

In any case we are not the rabble you are making us out to be. We can beat anyone and if only the players believed it and gave 100% from EVERYONE then we'll beat Essendon into the netherworld and beyond this week!

Good post.

Can't believe the negativity from some of our supporters writing this game and the season off already. FFS we are just 4 points outside the top 8 and if we beat Essendon and North lose to West Coast we will be back in the top 8. Essendon have had our measure in recent years but they aren't unbeatable as Melbourne and Sydney showed and if we have a team of players that all give 100%, which we didn't have last week, then we can beat them.

That's why I'm glad that Watters has picked the strongest team possible for this week rather than just playing kids. If we lose to Essendon it will make it tough to make finals but not impossible, if we lose to Brisbane next week though then that will be season over and Watters should look at getting games in to more kids.

Was Lenny there for the previous 3 times they flogged us?

TBH I'd like to see at least 2 of the emergencies come in because they're all quick but for one of the very few times this season I think we'll run out unchanged. Not overly confident about this game, but stranger things have happened.

I'm not all that confident either but I don't mind going in as underdogs with most people expecting Essendon to win. When you win as the underdog it makes the win so much better and if you lose then it doesn't hurt as much as most people expected you to lose anyway. I just hope if we lose that we are at least competitive and don't get blown away.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Good post.

Can't believe the negativity from some of our supporters writing this game and the season off already. FFS we are just 4 points outside the top 8 and if we beat Essendon and North lose to West Coast we will be back in the top 8. Essendon have had our measure in recent years but they aren't unbeatable as Melbourne and Sydney showed and if we have a team of players that all give 100%, which we didn't have last week, then we can beat them.

Agree with this. Some of the negativity on this thread is bizarre and not all that logical.

Look, no Saints fan I know is ever confident about playing Essendon. I'm no different. But this season is so even and hard to predict. We are in a big group of teams hovering around the eight, all of whom have shown they can knock off those above them from time-to-time. Saturday night at the dome, a new coach with (hopefully) a better plan to knock these blokes off than the last one, and a team that has shown it is competitive all year against every team, why wouldn't we as supporters go in to this game thinking we are a chance?

 

[aussierulesrules]

I know we are a chance, but I think I speak for most when I say that over the last few years of being in premiership contention, I've gotten a strong desire to win a premiership, not just win a spot in the bottom part of the 8. I don't believe we're going to win the premiership this year (might have been different if we'd won the four games that we lost by a goal or less and sat equal 2nd on the ladder, as we would have) but now that the flag looks to be off the table, I would rather we draw a line through this year and look to future seasons, to give us a better chance of winning that elusive premiership in those years.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

I know we are a chance, but I think I speak for most when I say that over the last few years of being in premiership contention, I've gotten a strong desire to win a premiership, not just win a spot in the bottom part of the 8. I don't believe we're going to win the premiership this year (might have been different if we'd won the four games that we lost by a goal or less and sat equal 2nd on the ladder, as we would have) but now that the flag looks to be off the table, I would rather we draw a line through this year and look to future seasons, to give us a better chance of winning that elusive premiership in those years.

Agree in the main with all of this. The question to debate is, how best does our club draw a line in the sand and reload again for a premiership? I actually think we are doing exactly that this year by introducing a fair few new players.

The thing is, while our top level of talent is playing, we are never going to bottom out like a Melbourne or Carltank have: and for that I am grateful. I don’t think bottoming out in that fashion has shown itself to be a success. Realistically, “bottoming out” for us won’t be as drastic with our team as it is. Why not play finals this year and give our young blokes a taste of it? Finishing 8th or 11th 12th isn’t going to make or break our draft, so there is no huge incentive for us, at this stage, to give up on this season. Give kids a game if they are knocking the door down for sure, as I think Watters is doing ok on this year.

I fully endorse the club trading in the off-season to secure draft picks while only dropping as low as mid-table instead of getting draft picks from bottoming out in our performance. It’s a fine line though and an interesting debate.