Autopsy Round 16, 2023 : Hawks get the Blues

[burner1]

We can really only play one of Breust and Wingard IMO. Both lack defensive accountability, not from a lack of trying. Greene is the cherry on top.

Carlton were just walking it out of the back 50.

Yep. It’s what doesn’t show up on the stat sheet that’s the issue. Adding chad, Greene and Harry makes us very slow (and scrim as well). They try but can’t keep up with opponents.

Our turnaround in form seemed to be in part from us fielding a quick team.

Challenge is we cop a small handful of injuries and side looks a lot worse.

 

[Liverbird]

Poor day at the footy.

Hawks just didn't turn up in 1st half, no intensity and pressure.

Saw team selection prior to game and knew this was on the cards. No forward structure just kills the ball movement and slow smalls in fwd line means ball retention in front half is non existent.

Last 2 weeks have been a large regression back to clearly a bottom 3 club.

Need find a second forward and key back we can believe in and utilise going forward.

In Mitchell - we have a coach and knows our problems and will get us back into top tier - as supporters we need to be prepared for 2 / 3 years of growing pains.

Poor last 2 weeks - need to see a response soon.

 

[SSSSSS]

I'd still play Kosi > Greene.

Greene might score more goals but Kosi creates goals through presence alone.

You're looking at maybe 1-2 goals from Greene and 1-2 goals from Lewis vs 1 goal from Kosi and 3+ goals for Lewis. We need to give our main man a chance. Just throwing him to the wolves without someone to occupy another defender.

Kosi isn't the answer but he's the best second KPF we have at the moment. Ramma isn't ready yet.

 

[H00t]

One thing that MacKenzie brings is quick, two way running.

I like MacKenzie a lot. But he doesn’t bring this at all.

He’s fairly slow as mids go but has a nice side step to buy him some time.

He works himself into space offensively but the two way running I haven’t noticed.

He’s at the point were he will play well if we dominate the inside ball and are able to get it to him on the outside. He wouldn’t have done much yesterday.

 

[Franko Armani]

If you count the last quarter last week, that’s three quarters in a row without a goal.
I don’t care how you spin it or where this list is at, that is woeful.

Interesting on Footy Classified the other night with Mitch on, the convo got going about Darcy Moore not sticking to his player enough and giving away goals. But Mitch made the comment that we're not taking into consideration about the goals he has created for playing so attacking, and it outways the goals scored against.

My take with that is that is what Sicily is to us and hence why our attack has been down, since he has been out.

Good point

 

[stevehawkington]

We are better without him. ******* dont play him.

That missed handball in the 3rd killed the energy, I was shattered for him, cos itll be hard to regain confidence.

 

[SSSSSS]

That missed handball in the 3rd killed the energy, I was shattered for him, cos itll be hard to regain confidence.

It was a learning experience for Shammy as well. Had to run around Frost to his right where the open space was. Running to his left was already covered by two players so even if he received the handball he would have already been under pressure.

Inexcusable miss though from a professional footballer.

 

[PenAndPaper]

I'd still play Kosi > Greene.

Greene might score more goals but Kosi creates goals through presence alone.

You're looking at maybe 1-2 goals from Greene and 1-2 goals from Lewis vs 1 goal from Kosi and 3+ goals for Lewis. We need to give our main man a chance. Just throwing him to the wolves without someone to occupy another defender.

Kosi isn't the answer but he's the best second KPF we have at the moment. Ramma isn't ready yet.

I still think we should give it a shot of playing Greene, Kosi and Lewis in the same forward line. I know people will complain about the potential for less pressure but there are a few teams running 3 similarly sized forwards with only one consistently putting pressure on.

It also gives us more of a contest in the forward line aerially which means our crumbers can actually do what they are good at, plus gives our players the confidence to get it into the forward line.

Will other teams get it out of our 50 easily sometimes, sure, but I think it will free up Lewis and even Greene alot more having another tall option up there.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Just a quick gripe about the umpiring.
3 advantage calls.
First 2 we had a player out. Clear advantage and it got called back

The 3rd the player (Nash?) Was being held as he took possession, and was then tackled. It was paid advantage.

Those 3 calls killed our momentum

 

[SSSSSS]

I still think we should give it a shot of playing Greene, Kosi and Lewis in the same forward line. I know people will complain about the potential for less pressure but there are a few teams running 3 similarly sized forwards with only one consistently putting pressure on.

It also gives us more of a contest in the forward line aerially which means our crumbers can actually do what they are good at, plus gives our players the confidence to get it into the forward line.

Will other teams get it out of our 50 easily sometimes, sure, but I think it will free up Lewis and even Greene alot more having another tall option up there.

3 forwards + 2 lumbering ruckmen seems like a disaster to me but given this is a free hit I'm all for experimentation.

I'd be more interested in a forward trio of Lewis, Greene/Kosi and Ramma and dropping a ruck if we wanted to go for the three talls.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Stop looking at stats and start looking at the structure. Scrimshaw hasn't been getting game because his role is taken by Seamus and Weddle. He was brought back in for Sicily. However, we throw Weddle to the wolves because Scrimshaw can't do that role. And Weddle can't do it either. So now we lose both coverage for Sicily and the run and carry of Weddle.

Watched the games, structure & looked at the stats. Always room for all three. The same as when looking at anything, pessimism, optimism and realism.

Scrimshaw played the game rotating on key position players to be the floating spare at times. He did this pretty well, the game was played completely at one end for big parts of the contest and honestly, no defender did really well, which was unlike the case last week.

Weddle was on Curnow from the first bounce, Frost was playing on a small whilst Blanck was on McKay. Scrimshaw played minimal role in this rotation where Weddle moved onto the half back flank, Frost back onto Curnow and Blanck stayed pretty much on McKay bar in play switches.

Scrimshaw was playing as that floating, general third tall and played on a mixture of players, but really wasn’t bad defensively. I can’t remember too many genuine “what the hell?” moments.

It’s probably something where I’ll have a look at the game again as I do to look at all three lines and what went wrong and what went right.

The main thing would be us wanting him to be more prolific with ball in hand. Continuing to take more responsibility with defense and giving 100% for a prolonged period. He has lapses that are crucial at times.

And to drive his legs and take on difficult kicks. He is a player I definitely trust doing this. His skills are very good.

But he was far from our worst, he is definitely growing whipping boy status.

 

[Hodgey 15]

Watched the games, structure & looked at the stats. Always room for all three. The same as when looking at anything, pessimism, optimism and realism.

Scrimshaw played the game rotating on key position players to be the floating spare at times. He did this pretty well, the game was played completely at one end for big parts of the contest and honestly, no defender did really well, which was unlike the case last week.

Weddle was on Curnow from the first bounce, Frost was playing on a small whilst Blanck was on McKay. Scrimshaw played minimal role in this rotation where Weddle moved onto the half back flank, Frost back onto Curnow and Blanck stayed pretty much on McKay bar in play switches.

Scrimshaw was playing as that floating, general third tall and played on a mixture of players, but really wasn’t bad defensively. I can’t remember too many genuine “what the hell?” moments.

It’s probably something where I’ll have a look at the game again as I do to look at all three lines and what went wrong and what went right.

The main thing would be us wanting him to be more prolific with ball in hand. Continuing to take more responsibility with defense and giving 100% for a prolonged period. He has lapses that are crucial at times.

And to drive his legs and take on difficult kicks. He is a player I definitely trust doing this. His skills are very good.

But he was far from our worst, he is definitely growing whipping boy status.

Unfairly.
I don't care what people say, I think we're a better side with him playing.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Unfairly.
I don't care what people say, I think we're a better side with him playing.

I think he has ALOT to improve. It’s more about how good he could be and the untapped potential. He doesn’t realise it and he isn’t working hard enough consistently. If he gets games it’s because Sam sees his work ethic behind closed doors. That’s most important with Scrimshaw.

Frost is the one for me who needs to give way. We play much better when he isn’t in the side.

 

[Yardie]

Watched the games, structure & looked at the stats. Always room for all three. The same as when looking at anything, pessimism, optimism and realism.

Scrimshaw played the game rotating on key position players to be the floating spare at times. He did this pretty well, the game was played completely at one end for big parts of the contest and honestly, no defender did really well, which was unlike the case last week.

Weddle was on Curnow from the first bounce, Frost was playing on a small whilst Blanck was on McKay. Scrimshaw played minimal role in this rotation where Weddle moved onto the half back flank, Frost back onto Curnow and Blanck stayed pretty much on McKay bar in play switches.

Scrimshaw was playing as that floating, general third tall and played on a mixture of players, but really wasn’t bad defensively. I can’t remember too many genuine “what the hell?” moments.

It’s probably something where I’ll have a look at the game again as I do to look at all three lines and what went wrong and what went right.

The main thing would be us wanting him to be more prolific with ball in hand. Continuing to take more responsibility with defense and giving 100% for a prolonged period. He has lapses that are crucial at times.

And to drive his legs and take on difficult kicks. He is a player I definitely trust doing this. His skills are very good.

But he was far from our worst, he is definitely growing whipping boy status.

I've been a defender of Scrimshaw in the past (I defended him after the Geelong scratch match!) so will ignore the whipping boy comment.

I see his issue at the moment is that he can't change his style to suit the game plan that Mitchell wants to implement. We obviously want to break the lines and to do this you have to take a calculated risk (See the Frost/Seamus discussion) to catch the other team out of position. Scrimshaw is playing too safe and slow and wonder if he has had too much drilled into him from the Clarkson days (Howe had this same problem, he tried to change but couldn't make it work on game day). Wingard had the same issue with taking a mark, taking too long to assess and allowing the opposition to set-up. Although I saw Wingard this game play on more quickly.

I'll be surprised if he stays in the firsts when Sicily comes back.

 

[PenAndPaper]

I've been a defender of Scrimshaw in the past (I defended him after the Geelong scratch match!) so will ignore the whipping boy comment.

I see his issue at the moment is that he can't change his style to suit the game plan that Mitchell wants to implement. We obviously want to break the lines and to do this you have to take a calculated risk (See the Frost/Seamus discussion) to catch the other team out of position. Scrimshaw is playing too safe and slow and wonder if he has had too much drilled into him from the Clarkson days (Howe had this same problem, he tried to change but couldn't make it work on game day). Wingard had the same issue with taking a mark, taking too long to assess and allowing the opposition to set-up. Although I saw Wingard this game play on more quickly.

I'll be surprised if he stays in the firsts when Sicily comes back.

The thing is we need to have a good mix of breaking the lines and playing slow. Yesterday we were going way too fast with everything and constantly putting ourselves under pressure with handballs for the sake of it. We needed to slow it down a bit and just retain possession.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I've been a defender of Scrimshaw in the past (I defended him after the Geelong scratch match!) so will ignore the whipping boy comment.

I see his issue at the moment is that he can't change his style to suit the game plan that Mitchell wants to implement. We obviously want to break the lines and to do this you have to take a calculated risk (See the Frost/Seamus discussion) to catch the other team out of position. Scrimshaw is playing too safe and slow and wonder if he has had too much drilled into him from the Clarkson days (Howe had this same problem, he tried to change but couldn't make it work on game day). Wingard had the same issue with taking a mark, taking too long to assess and allowing the opposition to set-up. Although I saw Wingard this game play on more quickly.

I'll be surprised if he stays in the firsts when Sicily comes back.

It’s an interesting discussion. He has every tool & talent you’d want as an afl player. He is the deciding factor in whether he makes it or not. I’ve seen big improvements with his defense. But it’s about a prolonged intensity. He needs to take it quarter by quarter. Because if he focuses for a full game he might have lapses like he does now. Or moments where he’s jogging and then realised he should’ve gone sooner.

But also ball in hand it’s a lot to do with his own confidence. Drive your legs, take the game on and use his skills. He’s a beautiful kick and we need to utilise it.

I know he isn’t slow and he has leg speed he just needs to use it, back himself in.

 

[Yardie]

The thing is we need to have a good mix of breaking the lines and playing slow. Yesterday we were going way too fast with everything and constantly putting ourselves under pressure with handballs for the sake of it. We needed to slow it down a bit and just retain possession.

I think this is more of an issue with not knowing when to kick after we decide to take on the game.

 

[Yardie]

It’s an interesting discussion. He has every tool & talent you’d want as an afl player. He is the deciding factor in whether he makes it or not. I’ve seen big improvements with his defense. But it’s about a prolonged intensity. He needs to take it quarter by quarter. Because if he focuses for a full game he might have lapses like he does now. Or moments where he’s jogging and then realised he should’ve gone sooner.

But also ball in hand it’s a lot to do with his own confidence. Drive your legs, take the game on and use his skills. He’s a beautiful kick and we need to utilise it.

I know he isn’t slow and he has leg speed he just needs to use it, back himself in.

When I say slow I mean he slows down play. I don't think he has the got the right balance between when to move it on quick and when to take stock and slow it down. Which is the opposite of the problem that PenAndPaper is saying above with other players.

I'm aligned with your view here and want him to make it. I'm a tad concerned that he has been drilled too much to play one way (see Howe issue) and can't make that change.

 

[MrPremiership]

Off the back of getting almost 40k to the Brisbane game, it was amazing to see 67k at the Blues game considering:

• raining morning
• train chaos
• 1.10pm Sunday

Nice to see the Hawk crowd numbers in Melbourne this year have been very good, espeically for a 16th place rebuilding side copping hammerings most weeks

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I like MacKenzie a lot. But he doesn’t bring this at all.

He’s fairly slow as mids go but has a nice side step to buy him some time.

He works himself into space offensively but the two way running I haven’t noticed.

He’s at the point were he will play well if we dominate the inside ball and are able to get it to him on the outside. He wouldn’t have done much yesterday.

I reckon his ball use across the middle and into the half forward line would’ve been great to have.

 

[stevehawkington]

It was a learning experience for Shammy as well. Had to run around Frost to his right where the open space was. Running to his left was already covered by two players so even if he received the handball he would have already been under pressure.

Inexcusable miss though from a professional footballer.

Frosty's ball use out of the backline is shaky but he's got speed for a big man and can lock down a good forward when he's on. I rkn he might be better used in another position not sure what that is.

 

[H00t]

I reckon his ball use across the middle and into the half forward line would’ve been great to have.

His ball use is great to have. I’m not sure how much he would have been able to use it though. Like the suns game where he only had 4 kicks.

 

[BlueWaterHawk]

I know it was ugly to watch but i honestly think a lot of it came down to Carlton's pressure. They had a lot more to play for than we did and they were all switched on. We just didn't or couldn't (hopefully the first one) go with them. We have a lot of gaps in the list and when the opposition comes to play its not surprising they control the game. We just have to use these losses to really truly identify what missing and make a plan to over come those deficiencies. The DGB to fwd line could be one of those revelations.

This draft/trade period we really need to focus on the 2 ends of the ground particularly up front. Our fwd line is missing so many elements and add to that the idea of Bruest retiring soon.

Every time a team has put heavy pressure on us this year, we've struggled. You'd be mad not to focus that as an oppo coach.

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk

 

[CHUBBSS]

Seems consistent that teams play us really hard and tough to try take the game away from us early, and as we are young we just don’t have the strength to match it physically.

It’s a long season in the back half of the year and we can’t do much without Sicily unfortunately, his just that bloody good.

I still reckon the coaches would be disappointed in the last fortnight but how much could be put down to endurance of the list across the season I wonder.

 

[toomanysquibs]

I like MacKenzie a lot. But he doesn’t bring this at all.

He’s fairly slow as mids go but has a nice side step to buy him some time.

He works himself into space offensively but the two way running I haven’t noticed.

He’s at the point were he will play well if we dominate the inside ball and are able to get it to him on the outside. He wouldn’t have done much yesterday.

It's his first year, but....

He'd literally be the fastest mid we have on the park. I doubt it would be close except for maybe Nash, with MacKenzie probably quicker off the mark. Check out his sprint times and this analysis from Rookie Me:

"Mackenzie also plays the role of receiver naturally around stoppages, using that same speed to get separation on his direct opponent and spread from the congestion well, getting out in space in a position easy for his teammates to give the ball out to."


He was drafted as a guy whose defensive game and tackling was one of his main attributes.

" his work off the ball is also admirable, as one of the better two way runners in the crop, Mackenzie works hard to help aid his side in defence, whether it’s laying tackles or applying heavy pressure on an oppositions disposal."

If you're saying he's a first year player, and can't bring it at a high level all day, and isn't Josh Ward then I wouldn't disagree.

But if you like him a lot, you must notice the difference he's made around the ball as a sub - Port game comes to mind.

Also the fact that he can tackle and run defensively so well.

Definitely gives us bite around the contest with his pace and hurt with clean disposal. But he's also a fast mid, who can run both ways and tackle in addition to being damaging with ball in hand. Is definitely tackling guys in the back half, even if he's mainly been used on ball or forward.