Autopsy Round 16, 2023: West Coast v St.Kilda *WILKIE 100TH*

[MordySaint]

People are frustrated because it's quite obviously how we are playing that is concerning. You'd have to be stupid to look at the ladder and ignore everything else. "Yep nothing to see here we're 5th" is nonsense.

We all know that our team has issues and is out of form.

We are in a lot better place than last year.... in everyway.. on field and off.

People constantly looking for faults to discuss is deeply concerning and shows more about our supporters than the actual side. The sky is falling in really gets tiresome, especially after a win.

 

[stavro#4]

Yeah again it's not an opinion based on a loss against Hawthorn and a disappointing win against West Coast, it's 8 weeks of poor form, starting 8-3 and missing finals the year before, dramatic shifts in performance week to week or game to game over the past 6 or 7 seasons. This is what this list has produced.

And this is what Ross has been brought in to fix.

He has 8 weeks to win 2 more games and match last seasons tally or better it.

I understand your issue is that in the last 8 weeks we have been wildly inconsistent.

As of right now, we have been consistent more often than not across this entire season.

Take your chances against Richmond and hawthorn and we are 4 th equal with Brisbane in third and 2 clear of Melbourne in 5.

That’s how small a difference we are squabbling over here. Moments and quarters of football for a side who finished 10th. Who are playing a number of kids and has lost numerous players who are arguably best 22 in posters eyes.

We are getting minimal from Gresham Steele and Ross on top.


We also lack the top end super duper talent at current.

 

[The Punter]

We all know that our team has issues and is out of form.

We are in a lot better place than last year.... in everyway.. on field and off.

People constantly looking for faults to discuss is deeply concerning and shows more about our supporters than the actual side. The sky is falling in really gets tiresome, especially after a win.

I think that is all true, but I think we all need to recognise that last year's fade out, compounded with over a decade in the wilderness away from elite performance, means that supporters will continue to have a hair trigger and that is understandable and the only thing that can change it is elite performance.

 

[Sully111]

We all know that our team has issues and is out of form.

We are in a lot better place than last year.... in everyway.. on field and off.

People constantly looking for faults to discuss is deeply concerning and shows more about our supporters than the actual side. The sky is falling in really gets tiresome, especially after a win.

I want to see us playing good footy

We're not doing that, so I'm not happy, regardless of where we sit on the ladder

People seem pretty confident we'll rack up the wins in the next 6 weeks... I hope we do, but I'm not confident.

I guess we'll see.

 

[Saint Kidding]

We all know that our team has issues and is out of form.

We are in a lot better place than last year.... in everyway.. on field and off.

People constantly looking for faults to discuss is deeply concerning and shows more about our supporters than the actual side. The sky is falling in really gets tiresome, especially after a win.

It gets a bit embarrassing. I've seen some Carlton or Richmondesque type dummy spits.


You know it is going to be cringe worthy when the "I've supported this club for XX years" line gets trotted out.

 

[George]

It quite fairly was a game of 2 halves as it has been for about 6 weeks with us.

2 good quarters. 2 s**t ones.

That’s a concern. But there is a lot of improvement being made and still to make.

We have been good value for “5th” thus far.

Therein lies the problem I reckon. I think we are too quick to gloss over the Eagles side that took the field yesterday. Let's remember that outside of the expansion clubs in their formative years, the Eagles this year are the worst side in 68 years. We have finals to play for with a coaching group apparently much better than last year and we find ourselves 31 points down in the 2nd quarter. It's just simply not good enough.

I don't understand why the coaches didn't slow the game down. We allowed them to pressure us like wild dogs and instead of taking the fizz out of the game we went head to head with them and then it becomes a toss up as to who executes better, but we should already know our skills are below average. We played into their hands by making it less about skill and more about effort.

We've probably peaked. 4th would be a tremendous result but the gap between the top sides and us is stark. If we have any brains then we simply must get our act together because at our best we can knock off anyone and that is the most frustrating part, us picking and choosing when to show it.

 

[George]

And this is what Ross has been brought in to fix.

He has 8 weeks to win 2 more games and match last seasons tally or better it.

I understand your issue is that in the last 8 weeks we have been wildly inconsistent.

As of right now, we have been consistent more often than not across this entire season.

Take your chances against Richmond and hawthorn and we are 4 th equal with Brisbane in third and 2 clear of Melbourne in 5.

That’s how small a difference we are squabbling over here. Moments and quarters of football for a side who finished 10th. Who are playing a number of kids and has lost numerous players who are arguably best 22 in posters eyes.

We are getting minimal from Gresham Steele and Ross on top.


We also lack the top end super duper talent at current.

That's what is frustrating though mate, we continually blow golden opportunities and it ultimately costs us. Like you said, we could be nestled inside the top four right now if we didn't shit the bed in games we should've won.

Yes we finished 10th last year but we shouldn't have which is my point really. We were pushing top four last year until we inevitably shat the bed again.

We do it all the time, yesterday was our last few years summed up perfectly.

 

[CursingFijian]

By losing. Those sides between 9th to 15th all look like they are better than us at the moment.

Ladder predictor has us 10th on auto tip. If we only win one more match against the Roos and sides like Carlton and Sydney keep winning we will fall over and slide back.

Autofill on the ladder predictor at the moment returns this for me:



Not that I agree with that being where we eventually end up.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

We are 5th, developing young players, winning games we lost last year.

Goal for me is making and winning 1 final.

A lot of work needs to be done in the midfield but winning ugly beats loosing pretty.

 

[George]

Autofill on the ladder predictor at the moment returns this for me:

View attachment 1728102

Not that I agree with that being where we eventually end up.

Depends which version of autofill you're using. Gringo is on the scorched earth pure rage iteration.

 

[True Believer]

A fit Hayes takes Caminiti's spot without hesitation.

No he doesn't, he takes Seb Ross's spot.

Or more correctly he takes Mitch Owens spot, and Mitch Owens takes Seb's spot.....

 

[pebblesofsand]

We all know that our team has issues and is out of form.

We are in a lot better place than last year.... in everyway.. on field and off.

People constantly looking for faults to discuss is deeply concerning and shows more about some of our supporters than the actual side. The sky is falling in really gets tiresome, especially after a win.

EFA

 

[sammm]

The way some miserable campaigners carry on,
You would think we aren’t the highest on the ladder we have been at round 16 since 2010.
For the record we were already 9th this time last year.

with what percentage and and how many points?

 

[StFly]

No he doesn't, he takes Seb Ross's spot.

Or more correctly he takes Mitch Owens spot, and Mitch Owens takes Seb's spot.....

That or Sharman, there's a reason he is sub and not starting, no way he replaces Caminiti as same issues in F50 if he does.

 

[stavro#4]

Therein lies the problem I reckon. I think we are too quick to gloss over the Eagles side that took the field yesterday. Let's remember that outside of the expansion clubs in their formative years, the Eagles this year are the worst side in 68 years. We have finals to play for with a coaching group apparently much better than last year and we find ourselves 31 points down in the 2nd quarter. It's just simply not good enough.

I don't understand why the coaches didn't slow the game down. We allowed them to pressure us like wild dogs and instead of taking the fizz out of the game we went head to head with them and then it becomes a toss up as to who executes better, but we should already know our skills are below average. We played into their hands by making it less about skill and more about effort.

We've probably peaked. 4th would be a tremendous result but the gap between the top sides and us is stark. If we have any brains then we simply must get our act together because at our best we can knock off anyone and that is the most frustrating part, us picking and choosing when to show it.

Ross called the players out for a lack of pressure in the first hand in his presser. Pretty clear they didn’t execute or show the required effort.

The second half should have been a 10 goal turnaround and a 5 goal win.

So the issue is why and that’s what needs to be worked on.

But we have had people torching the god damn place since the game ended. We aren’t a good enough side to just turn up and win. We need to apply the effort

 

[True Believer]

Therein lies the problem I reckon. I think we are too quick to gloss over the Eagles side that took the field yesterday. Let's remember that outside of the expansion clubs in their formative years, the Eagles this year are the worst side in 68 years.

Short memories in here. Saints of the early to mid-eighties would be flogged by the current Eagles outfit!! How many spoons did we collect in that era??

 

[stavro#4]

 

[True Believer]

That or Sharman, there's a reason he is sub and not starting, no way he replaces Caminiti as same issues in F50 if he does.

Agreed, Hayes in, Sharman out, Ross sub......

 

[gringo2011]

But isn’t that what we are doing mate?

You are literally getting everything you asked for.

Finals contention. Building a list. Playing youth. Winning games.

But because we lost to Hawthorn. Struggled yesterday and the last few weeks has been rough.

You are throwing the baby out with the bath water. You aren’t alone FYI. I recognise that.

But I just can’t understand how any of our supporters can be upset with this season. I really can’t.

Quite frankly. We are over delivering 15 games into RTBs second tenure.

We moved a coach on for not delivering so what ever you say we will be measuring him on that. He is rebuilding but if he culls seniors and we go back to not contending next year he will also be measured against what he replaced. I reckon next year there is a very good chance we fall away without the new coach bounce, his system seems to keep our heads above water, not play on our terms.

If he's dropped away the gloss will come off Ross and everyone involved with the club. We have said that this is the year to sort wheat from chaff but next couple of years expect to contend. If they fail at it they will be held to account. That's how the system works.

I'm not off Ross Lyon but at the moment we are pretty hard to like. We are the anti Collingwood, boring, slow and ugly and like a lead blanket rather than an enjoyable free flowing watch.

 

[stavro#4]

We moved a coach on for not delivering so what ever you say we will be measuring him on that. He is rebuilding but if he culls seniors and we go back to not contending next year he will also be measured against what he replaced. I reckon next year there is a very good chance we fall away without the new coach bounce, his system seems to keep our heads above water, not play on our terms.

If he's dropped away the gloss will come off Ross and everyone involved with the club. We have said that this is the year to sort wheat from chaff but next couple of years expect to contend. If they fail at it they will be held to account. That's how the system works.

I'm not off Ross Lyon but at the moment we are pretty hard to like. We are the anti Collingwood, boring, slow and ugly and like a lead blanket rather than an enjoyable free flowing watch.

Luckily there are multiple ways to play football and if you think this is that bad I’d say it’s still a better watch then the past 2 seasons.

And comfortably.

I think we are a finals side next year. I just don’t know when we make the jump to legitimate contender

 

[stavro#4]

That or Sharman, there's a reason he is sub and not starting, no way he replaces Caminiti as same issues in F50 if he does.

Big chance to play the battle role this week.

Looked good on the weekend and against Richmond in that role

 

[gringo2011]

You do realise that:

A) to contend, you need a list capable and I think we can all agree. This is not it.

So you either bottom out and draft and hope you build one. Or you do what we are doing now which posters are upset about the quality of our players.

My expectation for the year was minimal. Free pass almost. Sort the list out and find out who is a legitimate long term option and who is powder puff and needs to go - made that clear when we sacked Ratten.

You can have a losing season and build a winning culture in the expectations and tolerances you set. But move on the wannabes and bring in talented you can mould under a legitimate heavyweight coach.

B) I know what Gringo was arguing. But his opinion doesn’t carry weight when the bloke who dropped Dal Santo and Milne - which Gringo was advocating we do with King, actually values his contribution.

That’s why Max is in the side.

You blokes chew the fat on the few instances you feel like King let himself and the team down.

How about you chew the fat on the numerous times a 23 year old gun forward worked his ass off and then remember. He is 23 - coming off a shoulder reco and getting the ball kicked his way by Ross Byrnes and Gresham

Exactly the reason we have had a bunch of GOPs run around thinking that they are superstars in the last decade. We let everyone off for being good enough. High standards aren't something that just arrives one day. You need discipline and constant bar raising. King has the talent to be the best forward in AFL. Not sure we get him there by giving him a pass mark for standing around sooking.

 

[sammm]

And this is what Ross has been brought in to fix.

He has 8 weeks to win 2 more games and match last seasons tally or better it.

I understand your issue is that in the last 8 weeks we have been wildly inconsistent.

As of right now, we have been consistent more often than not across this entire season.

Take your chances against Richmond and hawthorn and we are 4 th equal with Brisbane in third and 2 clear of Melbourne in 5.

That’s how small a difference we are squabbling over here. Moments and quarters of football for a side who finished 10th. Who are playing a number of kids and has lost numerous players who are arguably best 22 in posters eyes.

We are getting minimal from Gresham Steele and Ross on top.


We also lack the top end super duper talent at current.

i just want more than 28 players tried. someone said that Bytel had his papers stamped . now he is injured, but at least we should have tried him first. connelly same deal. can't be as bad as Ross and some others sitting in the mid field. Give Steele a couple of weeks off. its going to be no good, if hewe limp into finals and he is so banged up.

 

[StFly]

Big chance to play the battle role this week.

Looked good on the weekend and against Richmond in that role

Too loose for mine, but my point was he's current fill so first in first out unless something like that pops up where he might then be used.

 

[NextYearPlease]

No he doesn't, he takes Seb Ross's spot.

Or more correctly he takes Mitch Owens spot, and Mitch Owens takes Seb's spot.....

Agreed, I don't think Caminiti is getting enough credit for yesterday's game.

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