Autopsy Round 18, 2023: Gold Coast v St.Kilda *PERIS DEBUT*

[gringo2011]

Ratts copped it all last year.

Isn't it about time the players take responsibility? They were let off last year, nobody else to blame.
Will the scales fall from the eyes finally?

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Have a look at Ratts game where it all went off the rails. He had 3 kids in but it was a very experienced side. Lyon has kids and second tier players in about half the spots or more.

Gresham looks a shadow of what he was when you look at that.

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[MrFoster]

Not really an excuse, delivery is abhorrent
Also general team tactics are counterintuitive to scoring efficiency which is Lyons department.

Our forwards seem to be overly relied on the be involved in transition + scoring. Basically means we end up heavily outnumbered deep. If mids picked up some transition slack we wouldn't be seeing people like butler in defensive 50 which happened about 5times in the first quarter.

Port, pies and lions mids are the modern era mould for moving the ball, we are no where near it.

The main problem is our mids are not good enough
1. Can’t win the ball at clearances
2. Can’t transition the ball
3. Can’t kick to forwards’ advantage
4. Can’t tackle effectively to win the ball back.
This means coaches need to move forwards to midfield and backline to help. As a result, our forward entry really suffers, often kicking blindly to opposition defenders

 

[George]

Can someone put up the presser

Full post-match, R18: Saints

Watch St Kilda's press conference after round 18's match against Gold Coast

www.afl.com.au

 

[HunterClarksHeadband]

Can’t believe a win last week was cementing our spot in the top 4 and we’ve just St Kilda’d it again. They know how to f*ck with us - we’re a bunch of losers for giving our all to this club. 150 years of utter mediocrity down, 150 more to come.

 

[Cairnsman]

This list you keep going on about had made 1 finals campaign since 2011.

It isn’t a finals side.

Your one finals campaign occurred in the most ****ed year in footy history too.

You are wrong.

No. Or Atleast not the expectation of the club and coaches and list management committee.

1 or 2 trade and draft periods.

Heavy cutting and turnover is the expectation

Gee you've changed your tune pretty quickly.

All along since Lyon was appointed you have banged on ad nauseam about how Ross would improve the players, get the best out the players, all the players needed is a system and better training standards. Not once can I remember you qualifying your love for Ross by saying our list was sub standard.

We are in for a hard rebuild and that has been obvious for a few years so hopefully Ross can start to talk openly about what his magic trick is for being able to achieve at our club which no other coach has been able to achieve and that is attract players to our club and build a GF list.

That's where the issue is at a poor club like ours, and that has always been the issue at our club and it's only getting harder with such a thin talent list and with Tasmania coming into the comp.

What is the magic trick that Ross has, that's what I'm waiting with incredible interest, trade time come come quick enough.

 

[70s sainter]

We have this horrible habit of overachieving with what we have. Smart sides look at the list and send everyone for surgeries or play kids. We played old NQR types who were just off the pace so never got horrible enough to get the picks and the few times we couldn't defy gravity we stunk up the picks. Our two top 4 picks were McCartin and Billings who could have been Bont and Petracca and we traded out for Carlisle who we still got Gresham with but hasn't seemed to work out either.

This comes up all the time but if we good bont we wouldn’t have got pick 1 (Prtrecca) but the team who finished last would’ve, because no one else is so f$&king stupid to pick mcartin at 1

 

[Diehard Saint]

You said blooding players for almost an entire season, I take that as 2023 no?

Pou Caminiti Peris the three debutants. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Expert commentators? The AFL media is a cesspit, these blokes don't follow our club as closely as we do. Bottom four ridiculous.

King Membrey Billings Jones all missed first half of year yet we pushed top four. All I hear is excuses unfortunately.

No. I never mentioned debutants. I mentioned young players at the very beginning of their careers. You have to include players who have played less than 10 or so previously. That’s blooding players. And they’ve all pretty much played every game. A distinct lack of experience.

You mentioned the team that made finals last year. None of those mentioned above missed almost the entire season last year like have did this year. Of course it makes a difference to the team this year.

 

[Baldur]

Not a golden game.

 

[gringo2011]

“Quality” won’t help with a coach like Ross in 2023.

Once upon a time, he could let cobblers cobble and do the defensive stuff, kiss the arses of his best players, pump up their tyres and give them freedom to express themselves within his rigid system.

His philosophy of dourness and defense back then gave him a point of difference.

It simply doesn’t work like that anymore. You defend by attacking in certain ways and areas and press intelligently. And a given is you can kick and handball under pressure.

Ross is a self-confessed “effort” coach.

A coach like him is outdated. Quality won’t matter a jot: in fact, with Gen Z/millenials, something with quality under Ross will eventually get ground down and then down tools (see Steele).

I agree to some degree but even effort takes experience. Guys in their first 50 games aren't going to take you far with evenness of effort. We were playing competitive with plenty of older guys available. Discipline and team first stuff isn't a bad thing and Buckley's over reliance on defence has given the Pies the best of both worlds. Flint hard in defence and freedom from a new attacking coach to take risks and bite off risker moves.

I think we are still moving forward with Lyon but don't need him to be the next premiership coach. Just guide the processes and procedures that the next guy gets the keys to.

 

[Geezington]

We made rory atkins

2

Rory Atkins

Age

30

Ht

185cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

7.9

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

367.4

5star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.3

1star

T

2.7

4star

MG

147.7

3star

D

14.2

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.2

3star

MG

217.8

4star

look like a superstar

 

[Minga]

Didn’t watch the game, thoughts on Peris?

 

[Dard Ball Get]

We made rory atkins look like a superstar

Couldn’t pick him in a line-up of my life depended on it. Was sure as the sun rising tomorrow.

 

[George]

No. I never mentioned debutants. I mentioned young players at the very beginning of their careers. You have to include players who have played less than 10 or so previously. That’s blooding players. And they’ve all pretty much played every game. A distinct lack of experience.

You mentioned the team that made finals last year. None of those mentioned above missed almost the entire season last year like have did this year. Of course it makes a difference to the team this year.

You'd have to compare how many Ratten blooded before we give it any credence. I don't think Ross has done anything out of the ordinary at all.

Yes, so it would be an even bigger failure to miss this year after the start we had without those players. We are professional bed wetters and the coaches have no idea how to turn it around. It would be so us to miss finals two years in a row from the positions we've found ourselves in LOL

 

[stavro#4]

The list isn't the same list we've had since 2011 so I don't know what you're on about. The majority of this list has been around for what? 5-6 years together?

Let's not count the semi final year because it doesn't fit the narrative

I'm wrong...OK

It sure as s**t is a finals side, the incompetence from several coaches over the years including Ross and their inability to move to plan B when they've been found out is clear as day. Could perhaps stop directing the players to kick it on our forwards heads, over handballing, playing ultra defensive conservative footy, maybe giving players a go in positions that they are better suited for...

Thankfully Ross is owning it and taking the blame as he should.

By all means count the semi final season

That list has gone 0-2 since then with regards to making finals.

So not a finals list

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Didn’t watch the game, thoughts on Peris?

Fast, layed some great tackles and applied pressure. Too early to judge at the level.

 

[George]

Didn’t watch the game, thoughts on Peris?

Thought he was very good, speed is incredible and some good chase down tackles. Play him the rest of the way.

 

[gringo2011]

This comes up all the time but if we good bont we wouldn’t have got pick 1 (Prtrecca) but the team who finished last would’ve, because no one else is so f$&king stupid to pick mcartin at 1

I'm not sure Bont was that good that he would have made us go from shit to good overnight.

 

[Geezington]

Our midfield is putrid we need windhager, Clark, owens and bytel running thru there the rest of the year, the sooner we get rid of the hacks the better

 

[gringo2011]

We made rory atkins look like a superstar

We should get paid by clubs to turn their spuds into stars.

 

[stavro#4]

Gee you've changed your tune pretty quickly.

All along since Lyon was appointed you have banged on ad nauseam about how Ross would improve the players, get the best out the players, all the players needed is a system and better training standards. Not once can I remember you qualifying your love for Ross by saying our list was sub standard.

We are in for a hard rebuild and that has been obvious for a few years so hopefully Ross can start to talk openly about what his magic trick is for being able to achieve at our club which no other coach has been able to achieve and that is attract players to our club and build a GF list.

That's where the issue is at a poor club like ours, and that has always been the issue at our club and it's only getting harder with such a thin talent list and with Tasmania coming into the comp.

What is the magic trick that Ross has, that's what I'm waiting with incredible interest, trade time come come quick enough.

I said Ross would provide us clarity on our list which is exactly what we needed and I had no expectations of finals this year. I Infact said he had a clean slate in my eyes.

He has developed 2 potential superstars in Nas and Owens with Pou looking likely.
He has ploughed games into Caminiti and the above and found a likely type in stocker.

He is doing everything I thought he would do with a list that had a lot of these “????”against each name

 

[George]

By all means count the semi final season

That list has gone 0-2 since then with regards to making finals.

So not a finals list

No, it is a list capable of making finals but our inability to implement more than one playing style coupled with our bed wetters turns 8-3 finals bound starts into capitulations.

We are capable of playing finals with this list, but I can see how it'd be a good excuse to say otherwise.

 

[Geezington]

Gresham should be playing up forward permanently we just can’t kick goals

 

[George]

I said Ross would provide us clarity on our list which is exactly what we needed and I had no expectations of finals this year. I Infact said he had a clean slate in my eyes.

He has developed 2 potential superstars in Nas and Owens with Pou looking likely.
He has ploughed games into Caminiti and the above and found a likely type in stocker.

He is doing everything I thought he would do with a list that had a lot of these “????”against each name

What have we found out about the list that we didn't know last year?

What did we need Ross to show us that we didn't see? It's pretty obvious to me. We have a decent list but not great. We could maybe win a final but need more talent to push into the top four and really challenge.

 

[malevu]

This place is laughable after a loss. Actually, toxic would be a better description.

Just a reminder of a few of our recent efforts under Ratten.
Essendon 143 - Saints 68
Dogs 144 - Saints 33
Richmond 134 -Saints 48

You'd prefer that? Bloody sure I wouldn't. I've followed the Saints for over 50 years and at one stage attended just shy of 300 games without missing a single match. I went everywhere we played. Rain, hail or shine. But I'd have been lucky if I saw 50 wins during that period. So I've had enough of watching that sh.it

If the alternative is a low scoring grind where we are at least in games with a sniff I'll take it. Stop leaking goals first then do something about kicking a score when you have your house in order. That hasn't been helped by not having our first choice forward line available all year. I don't think King, Membrey and Higgins have all played in the same team yet this season.

I'm not guilty of wearing rose coloured glasses where the Saints are concerned. I can be their greatest critic, having been forced to witness the same car crash over and over again. At the start of the year it was obvious we were deficient in the midfield, missing a tall defender and a back up ruckman. The fact we got off to a fast start to the season, when the team bought into the Lyon team defence mantra, clearly blinded many on here and falsely raised their expectations. Those list deficiencies haven't miraculously disappeared.

People saying we won 11 games last year are misguided in their comparisons. The depth of teams in the middle of the table is much higher this year. Last years grand finalists have been out of the eight most of the year. Boom teams like the Dogs and Carlton have struggled for consistency. Improvement in Adelaide and Gold Coast has placed us squarely in that logjam. That is our true standing and anyone expecting something greater are very misguided.

Should we have bit the bullet and instead experimented with a new-wave coach like MacRae, rather than Lyon. Maybe, but knowing our track record there I doubt we'd have made the right choice. One thing for certain in my mind is that I'd rather have Lyon taking us forward than Ratten.

At the very least he'll get our house in order. Whether he's the man to take us to the promised land is another thing altogether.

 

[Geezington]

We should get paid by clubs to turn their spuds into stars.

lock Tristan xerri in for 70 hit outs 42 contested possessions 20 clearances and 6 goals 8 next week