Autopsy Round 18, 2023: Gold Coast v St.Kilda *PERIS DEBUT*

[Cairnsman]

Johannisen won a Norm Smith, should we sign him?

I’m not sure your definition makes sense tbh.

I'm not sure you understand footy, either that or you are still like all of us and still a bit cranky from yesterday.

happy to keep chatting but make your point soon.

 

[Mowman]

We pay hard earned money to support this club, these players, these coaches.

We actually PAY to watch these putrid c#%*s serve up the same horrific, brain dead fu%$$ng dogshite every single week.

These players, aside from barely being able to execute extremely simple football skills, are just not smart footballers, very low IQ players.
Bomb inside 50 to nobody (defensive intercept mark), handball in congestion to a teammate with 3 blokes on him 1m away, no awareness, constant stupid decisions, man free i50? Nah ill bomb it to the 3on1 not in our favour down the line.

They are truly unwatchable now.

We kick 50pts a game, turn it over like no other team and I just cannot hack watching the poorest decision makers in the league dump kicks 40m high any more.

F*** em.

It’s unwatchable rubbish
Just **** en putrid
4 th lowest scoring side in the league
Good god West coast nearly beat us

 

[St Significant]

Apart from the obvious midfield issues, I believe the huge concern is our dysfunctional forward line. No one knows how to lead to space and this is even when King is playing. The whole footy world knows this and that's why the opposition just has a field day intercepting bombs into our forward 50. We don't even look like kicking a winning score in most games. Sort the forward line out!

 

[The Cobra]

I had a very tough 48 hours on a personal level before the game and was hoping the game might cheer me up a bit. However, other than maybe one of Sharman's goals or Peris' run down tackle I don't think I ever got even slightly excited. I can't remember a recent game where there was less to get excited about (WC and NM games were horrible but didn't feel as bad as this).

I agree with most that has been said on here. I didn't think we were really going anywhere with Ratten, so I was happy with the Lyon appointment and am willing to give him another season or two before I start to questions the clubs decision on that. He inherited a mess of a list and hasn't had a chance to fix it yet.

For me, it all boils down to a decade of poor decisions. Poor drafting when we bottomed out in 2012 - 2015 led to our position in 'no man's land in 2017 - 2019. The club couldn't sell another rebuild so has tried to top up along the way. We looked good in 2020, but it's clear now that was the outlier in a strange year. The club thought we could build a premiership team around the current crop of 26-30 year olds (Steele, Membrey, Howard, Sinclair, Hill, Wilkie, Crouch, Billings, etc) but its quite clear that isn't happening. It's time to focus on the young group of under 23 year olds (King, Higgins, Pou, Owens, NWM, Windy) and start to build the list around them. A few of the older guys like Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie and Marshall can still be apart of that, but that is about it.

We severely lack quality midfielders and leaders and that is the number 1 problem on the field at the moment. When was the last time we drafted a midfielder of our own that turned into a quality A grade player? Who of our draftees show any sort of leadership potential? Our drafting has been nothing short of a disaster up until the last few years. There must be something lacking in our development program also. I can't believe that we could draft SO many poorly skilled and poor decision makers year after year. We must be doing something wrong after they come into the system as well.

The season hasn't been a complete disaster as we now have a few gun kids to get excited about. The problems in the forward line can also be attributed to the fact that we are so young in there and they will also be better for the experience. We might win the next 2 but that will be it i'm afraid.

Looking forward to the off season and (hopefully) starting the list turnover.

On the money - thank you for such a clear and rational explanation of where we are at!

 

[Mowman]

Wonder why Ross got him across if he's no good. I don't know enough about him aside from his obsession with GWS players.

Maybe Ross is more concerned about how we develop than who we draft but surely we need to also draft well.

We got SOS because Cripps said no

SOS in charge of bringing in experienced players

 

[George]

We got SOS because Cripps said no

SOS in charge of bringing in experienced players

Wasn't SOS at GWS, then moved to Carlton and tried bringing them all with him? If so he's doing the same now lol, Caminiti Stocker TDK.

Not the most out of the box thinking...

 

[stavro#4]

Wonder why Ross got him across if he's no good. I don't know enough about him aside from his obsession with GWS players.

Maybe Ross is more concerned about how we develop than who we draft but surely we need to also draft well.

We got SOS because Cripps said no

SOS in charge of bringing in experienced players

No, Gubby is responsible for experienced players.

Sos Drafting.

But the lines blur.

Blokes did the GWS ground work.

 

[gringo2011]

Wonder why Ross got him across if he's no good. I don't know enough about him aside from his obsession with GWS players.

Maybe Ross is more concerned about how we develop than who we draft but surely we need to also draft well.

Toce is the drafting guy. SOS and Gubby are list managers. They design the structure of the list and manage the contracts and keep us under the cap. They are probably more involved in chasing of external talent but often clubs have a separate person managing these negotiations.

The list managers could go to the recruiter and say that we need to focus on mids but Toce makes the calls on the actual player or at least sells the benefits of the player to the list manager.

Hopefully Toce keeps getting them right. He's been pretty good so far.

 

[stavro#4]

Toce is the drafting guy. SOS and Gubby are list managers. They design the structure of the list and manage the contracts and keep us under the cap. They are probably more involved in chasing of external talent but often clubs have a separate person managing these negotiations.

The list managers could go to the recruiter and say that we need to focus on mids but Toce makes the calls on the actual player or at least sells the benefits of the player to the list manager.

Hopefully Toce keeps getting them right. He's been pretty good so far.

Toce does the work and makes the recommendations- which is the key part

 

[gringo2011]

Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

was the Blues highest rated player in their big win over Port. Bergman was in the bottom 6 players on the ground. TDK was rated high in AF score but looks like he had **** all touches, no goals and not many hit outs.

 

[bergholt]

I'm not sure you understand footy, either that or you are still like all of us and still a bit cranky from yesterday.

happy to keep chatting but make your point soon.

I don't agree that it's important to sign "big game players" like JJ or Mark McGough (Anzac Day Medallist) or Jason Gram (almost won a Norm Smith) or Paul Seedsman (Anzac Day Medallist) or for that matter Brad Hill, who was good in the 2014 Grand Final.

Anyone can have a day out when everything falls into place. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be a great contributor consistently over the 25 or 26 games required to get you to a Grand Final. I think we've got plenty of "big game players". Gresh on a good day is fantastic. Billings beat Carlton off his own boot once. Higgins has kicked 5 a couple of times. Marshall can step up and be huge (as we saw last week). Hill can have 30 touches and cut a side to pieces. Etc etc etc.

What we don't have is the solid contributors to give us a base of performance week in, week out. That's what we need - smart, resilient leaders who bring the rest of the team along with them by having high standards and performing consistently.

 

[Desperate saint]

I watched it again because I'm sick in the head and take back a bit of what I said, it's obviously not all on the coaches, it's definitely a mix though.

A majority of our players simply don't have any resilience and/or leadership out there. We are a bunch of foot soldiers which probably gives some stability in terms of where we find ourselves year after year - a middling, average football team. Perhaps I just don't want to admit that it's more of a list issue than a coaching issue because if it's a list issue it's going to take us years to fix and we're in for a lot more pain.

However, the coaching does need improvement and they aren't exempt from blame for where we are at either. Our tall forwards consist of guys like Caminiti Owens and Sharman. Not exactly dominant key forwards. So, why are the coaches instructing them to continually kick sky balls into F50? Why don't we get it in lower and give the likes of Butler Higgins etc, who are definitely more dangerous, a chance to get a hold of the ball and make something happen?

Why do the coaches continue to instruct the players to move the ball at blistering pace when we clearly don't have the cattle for it? Lyon bemoans the ball use, handballing to feet, missing targets. Why are we not playing a more conservative game? We can still be attacking but there's clearly a balance in terms of speed on the ball and if the players clearly can't execute it why continue to plough through?

We're a complete mess. How we're still 6th after losing 4 of our last 5 games is beyond me.

all good questions-i was at the game and could not believe our forward entries

 

[Cairnsman]

I don't agree that it's important to sign "big game players" like JJ or Mark McGough (Anzac Day Medallist) or Jason Gram (almost won a Norm Smith) or Paul Seedsman (Anzac Day Medallist) or for that matter Brad Hill, who was good in the 2014 Grand Final.

Anyone can have a day out when everything falls into place. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be a great contributor consistently over the 25 or 26 games required to get you to a Grand Final. I think we've got plenty of "big game players". Gresh on a good day is fantastic. Billings beat Carlton off his own boot once. Higgins has kicked 5 a couple of times. Marshall can step up and be huge (as we saw last week). Hill can have 30 touches and cut a side to pieces. Etc etc etc.

What we don't have is the solid contributors to give us a base of performance week in, week out. That's what we need - smart, resilient leaders who bring the rest of the team along with them by having high standards and performing consistently.

who said big name players? you need a minimum of 25 quality players who can stand up in the closing minutes of a GF.

can be Fred, Bob or even Mary in this day and age.

but they must be capable of that final act, everything that comes before that is bubble N froth.

I struggle to pick 6-8 with our current list profile.

We are long way back from finding at least 25 likely types.

 

[gringo2011]

all good questions-i was at the game and could not believe our forward entries

It's been a theme for 2 years.

 

[Desperate saint]

Interesting how Coops got on the scoreboard a few times but didn't rate a mention by the Boss either, sought of confirms the rumours he's already had his papers stamped.

thought he was good -natural forward

 

[George]

Toce is the drafting guy. SOS and Gubby are list managers. They design the structure of the list and manage the contracts and keep us under the cap. They are probably more involved in chasing of external talent but often clubs have a separate person managing these negotiations.

The list managers could go to the recruiter and say that we need to focus on mids but Toce makes the calls on the actual player or at least sells the benefits of the player to the list manager.

Hopefully Toce keeps getting them right. He's been pretty good so far.

Thank you for mansplaining

 

[gringo2011]

Thank you for mansplaining

You're welcome sugar-****.

 

[Cairnsman]

thought he was good -natural forward

GC didn't pay him much respect so he was able to wear the rock star glasses for an afternoon, hasn't proven he can deliver to AFL standard on a consistent basis and against quality opposition when playing for sheep stations.

Owens is an example of a player who has shown very early on he might be a likely type...that is if you are looking for a scale and metric of the type of player we need a lot more of.

small sample size, need to see much more.

 

[cooperrules]

Another wasted year that sets us back another 5. Like I said after I think it was the west coast game, until we embrace a full rebuild we’ll never get out of this.

Spot on were kidding ourselves

 

[bergholt]

who said big name players? you need a minimum of 25 quality players who can stand up in the closing minutes of a GF.

can be Fred, Bob or even Mary in this day and age.

but they must be capable of that final act, everything that comes before that is bubble N froth.

I struggle to pick 6-8 with our current list profile.

We are long way back from finding at least 25 likely types.

Yeah probably agree that there aren't many I actually trust in the current side. If we were in a GF today, the only ones I'd be confident in are maybe: Webster, Crouch, Sinclair, Wilkie, Stocker, NWM, Owens.

 

[cooperrules]

Full rebuild

 

[The Cobra]

I don't agree that it's important to sign "big game players" like JJ or Mark McGough (Anzac Day Medallist) or Jason Gram (almost won a Norm Smith) or Paul Seedsman (Anzac Day Medallist) or for that matter Brad Hill, who was good in the 2014 Grand Final.

Anyone can have a day out when everything falls into place. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be a great contributor consistently over the 25 or 26 games required to get you to a Grand Final. I think we've got plenty of "big game players". Gresh on a good day is fantastic. Billings beat Carlton off his own boot once. Higgins has kicked 5 a couple of times. Marshall can step up and be huge (as we saw last week). Hill can have 30 touches and cut a side to pieces. Etc etc etc.

What we don't have is the solid contributors to give us a base of performance week in, week out. That's what we need - smart, resilient leaders who bring the rest of the team along with them by having high standards and performing consistently.

Think RTB made a very interesting point yesterday - not exactly right but to the effect of - if our top 5 don’t perform none of the rest are capable of stepping up to fill the void. Edit: apparently he said flight not five! But I think the effect is the same! Off to get my hearing checked!

Just illustrates the lack of quality/depth in the list. Presumably some of this is due to playing youngsters, but also more relevantly, we have a whole lot of experienced mid range players who just aren’t very good.

 

[Cairnsman]

Yeah probably agree that there aren't many I actually trust in the current side. If we were in a GF today, the only ones I'd be confident in are maybe: Webster, Crouch, Sinclair, Wilkie, Stocker, NWM, Owens.

I tend to agree with most of those except I probably have questions marks over Stocker, NWM and Ownens as I have them just outside of the category of "proven" because of their small sample size.

Too may players have come and gone in the history of the game and especially at our club who have looked like rock stars in their first year or so but then get found out so although I think those last three look like they could go on with it beyond this year I want to see more so let's continue this conversation with regards to those three at the end of 2025.

And their in lies the challenge of finding a minimum of 25, just when you think you've found one, they go off the boil.

So now we have gone full circle, the challenge of building a list, and the challenge of building a list at a club like ours.

Apparently Ross has a magic trick that no other coach has.

Can't wait for trade time to see what it is.

 

[beside the seaside]

Full rebuild

We've been there before and it got us nowhere. Our best young player Owens was pick 29. I'm all for gutting out the list and it sounds like it will happen but we need to be trying to get better not worse.

 

[Saint Shags]

We've been there before and it got us nowhere. Our best young player Owens was pick 29. I'm all for gutting out the list and it sounds like it will happen but we need to be trying to get better not worse.

No we never went hard enough. We thought once we had our Billings and Paddy that was all we needed. We gifted 1st round draft picks for players that are now playing elsewhere.
Our list managers thought they were being smart. We tried to cheat the system and all it did was hamstring us.

So if we gut the list we are not magically getting better.