Autopsy Round 19, 2024: Saints v Eagles

[Diehard Saint]

Just watched the replay and Howie said a couple of times we had lost four in a row before that win? I must have dreamt the Sydney win the other week!

He's painful. How many times could he reference Battle and the FA thing?
TBH I didn't think Smiley Brad was as bad as others mentioned.

 

[The Punter]

Because NWM is the future and Steele has runs on the board. Because they both get involved doing the tough stuff tackling and defending. Because they aren’t keeping a young promising player out of the team. Because bonner turns it over 9/10 kicks.
Bonner streaming into the forward 50 under no pressure burns players and turns it directly over.

Can you name the last really good kick inside 50 by Steele?

Bonner 15 kicks 7 handpasses 86.4% disposal efficiency last week. So the 9/10 guff is just that

The reason why many give Steele a pass is the same reason why many in the football following public think Jonathan Brown was a better player than Nick Riewoldt. It has something to do with old fashioned ideas about what all footballers should do.

If Bonner didn't play another game for the club I wouldn't be bothered. But the commentary around him would be fair if he was the worst player ever to play for the club (which he ain't).

 

[hayes]

Can you name the last really good kick inside 50 by Steele?

Bonner 15 kicks 7 handpasses 86.4% disposal efficiency last week. So the 9/10 guff is just that

The reason why many give Steele a pass is the same reason why many in the football following public think Jonathan Brown was a better player than Nick Riewoldt. It has something to do with old fashioned ideas about what all footballers should do.

If Bonner didn't play another game for the club I wouldn't be bothered. But the commentary around him would be fair if he was the worst player ever to play for the club (which he ain't).

Defensive half turnovers that result in goals stick in our memories and at one point he was top 5 for those. The thing with Bonner is he was brought in strictly for kicking and his turnovers have been killer and he doesn’t bring anything else to the table to make up for it.

I thought he was good during the preseason but didn’t take long to see why Port delisted him. I really hope we don’t go down the delisted FA path again.

 

[The Punter]

Defensive half turnovers that result in goals stick in our memories and at one point he was top 5 for those. The thing with Bonner is he was brought in strictly for kicking and his turnovers have been killer and he doesn’t bring anything else to the table to make up for it.

I thought he was good during the preseason but didn’t take long to see why Port delisted him. I really hope we don’t go down the delisted FA path again.

Our two best players on Saturday were delisted free agents.

 

[StCicatriz]

Knee

any word on what type of injury?

 

[jumperfan]

any word on what type of injury?

Injury Update: Henry's season over as scans reveal knee injury

Liam Henry will miss the remainder of the 2024 AFL season after injuring his knee in yesterday’s win over West Coast.

www.saints.com.au

"Significant cartilage damage" apparently. Not an ACL though, which is good.

 

[Silkie]

The eye test tells me that even if Bonner's not directly turning it over, his 'effective' disposals feel to be mostly either hot potato handballs to someone else because he doesn't want to make the decision himself, or long kicks to contests down the line. Both are better than turnovers of course, but on top of that, when he does turn it over it's usually both obvious and damaging. He's probably not as bad as people say but he's not great either.

Steele isn't here for his field kicking. It just needs to be servicable, as long as he gets into contests and does the harder stuff (which he does). FWIW I thought he was below his usual standard on the weekend. His disposal was pretty poor, including the shocker that directly led to a goal. Despite that, he was still one of our best.

 

[The Punter]

The eye test tells me that even if Bonner's not directly turning it over, his 'effective' disposals feel to be mostly either hot potato handballs to someone else because he doesn't want to make the decision himself, or long kicks to contests down the line. Both are better than turnovers of course, but on top of that, when he does turn it over it's usually both obvious and damaging. He's probably not as bad as people say but he's not great either.

Steele isn't here for his field kicking. It just needs to be servicable, as long as he gets into contests and does the harder stuff (which he does). FWIW I thought he was below his usual standard on the weekend. His disposal was pretty poor, including the shocker that directly led to a goal. Despite that, he was still one of our best.

I had Steele in my votes yesterday, but his disposal could be better - he is not merely getting the ball in congestion. As I have said in other places, if I was a St Kilda forward I'd rather Seb Ross was kicking it to me. I think he could do much better when out of congestion.

 

[StFly]

“
WEST Coast's Liam Ryan and Collingwood defender Brayden Maynard have avoided suspensions.

Ryan caught St Kilda's Liam Stocker high during the Eagles' heavy loss to the Saints at Marvel Stadium on Saturday.

The Match Review Officer looked at the incident but said Ryan did not elect to bump, with no further action taken.”

Paddy Ryder says hi.

Was always going to happen, from Long to Ryder, essentially if the player is stumbling you can just pull a Fyfe walk past and knee someone in the side of the head no problem.

 

[Saintbloke]

Defensive half turnovers that result in goals stick in our memories and at one point he was top 5 for those. The thing with Bonner is he was brought in strictly for kicking and his turnovers have been killer and he doesn’t bring anything else to the table to make up for it.

I thought he was good during the preseason but didn’t take long to see why Port delisted him. I really hope we don’t go down the delisted FA path again.

Who is our turnover leader- too slack to look at stats

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Can you name the last really good kick inside 50 by Steele?

Bonner 15 kicks 7 handpasses 86.4% disposal efficiency last week. So the 9/10 guff is just that

The reason why many give Steele a pass is the same reason why many in the football following public think Jonathan Brown was a better player than Nick Riewoldt. It has something to do with old fashioned ideas about what all footballers should do.

If Bonner didn't play another game for the club I wouldn't be bothered. But the commentary around him would be fair if he was the worst player ever to play for the club (which he ain't).

Disposal efficiency is a rubbish stat. If you bomb it to a pack and the opposition ends up with the ball it’s still counted as an effective disposal. Go watch each of his disposals in the first half and tell me how many you are happy with.
The Steele part is because he is often in contested situations where a turnover is more likely. Bonner is an uncontested player turning over the ball. So what’s he there for?
We aren’t getting to finals, and even with we were I’d doubt bonner in the team would change anything. Instead he’s just holding someone else out the team for some reason that a lot of us can’t see.

 

[PoppedCorn]

“
WEST Coast's Liam Ryan and Collingwood defender Brayden Maynard have avoided suspensions.

Lol
Ryan Should’ve got a week

 

[sasaint]

Signature performance from Tim, if it's to be the end this year then that's a nice way to sign off, and if not most people wouldn't begrudge him an extention. I've been a massive fan of his over his time with us - IMO it's time to move on but another year wouldn't make me furious.

Great to see Stocker back in and playing well. Love everything he brings.

Battle - I absolutely want him to stay, more because I know he will take himself and Hawthorn to another level, I couldnt bear it. After seeing the Ginnivan-led shenanigans this weekend against the Pies, I think Josh would love that kind of energy - and I'd love to see him bring that to St Kilda rather than join Hawthorn.

RTB: for god's sake, make Battle captain and double his salary, keep him and give him carte blanche to do what he likes, play where he wants. Switch with Sharman up front or Sinclair in the middle, make him the face of the Saints. Use him properly, or watch Hawthorn blitz with him starring on and off field.

It was a weird game, it honestly looked like hard work and we didn't look like we were dominating at all then I checked the scores and we were 70 points up! How did that happen. Massive asterisk game, but very much needed prior to taking on the Injectors next week. Crush em Saints!

One of the other reasons to kep Battle is that we need a salary dump, and Battle would be the lucky winner out of that. Rather pay him above odds for a couple of years than overpay any of the GOPs or developing players we have on the list.

 

[Bill Crouse]

9 Tim Membrey

28

Tim Membrey

Age

30

Ht

188cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

8.1

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

1.8

5star

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.3

2star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

4.8

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.6

3star

(STK)
8 Jack Sinclair

35

Jack Sinclair

Age

29

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.5

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

235.0

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

5.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

MG

376.0

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.0

4star

MG

138.2

3star

(STK)
6 Rowan Marshall

19

Rowan Marshall

Age

28

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

20.2

5star

D

12.9

3star

K

9.3

4star

HB

3.6

2star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.8

5star

(STK)
5 Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

28

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

(STK)
1 Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (STK)
1 Josh Battle

26

Josh Battle

Age

26

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

(STK)

 

[hayes]

Who is our turnover leader- too slack to look at stats

Not sure who the leader for us is I just remember seeing a stat somewhere that he was top 5 for points conceded from turnovers. That was a few weeks ago though.

 

[StCicatriz]

can someone explain to me how King got a week but Liam Ryan

1

Liam Ryan

Age

27

Ht

181cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.3

5star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.6

5star

didnt get shit?

 

[PoppedCorn]

can someone explain to me how King got a week but Liam Ryan didnt get shit?

nope

absolute joke this shit is becoming

one week its intent, then its not then its concussion based then its oh look he has a clean record and is a good bloke then its what colour jocks he has on and if he ate his veggies for tea

 

[SteeleSaints]

I had Steele in my votes yesterday, but his disposal could be better - he is not merely getting the ball in congestion. As I have said in other places, if I was a St Kilda forward I'd rather Seb Ross was kicking it to me. I think he could do much better when out of congestion.

Totally agree and Steele is rated our best midfielder. Jack is in the pool of players who have an inability to hit a leading forward or even a another target consistently. He hasnt always been that bad so I put some of it down to the amount of defensive running he does with little support. Patrick Dangerfield commented on it while doing special comments on our game 5-6 weeks ago. The Saints lack of skills creates so many turn overs the down side is they have to work so hard to win the ball back. Then we dont have the energy to attack or to be clean with our skills its creates a revolving door scenario we cant get off.

 

[gringo2011]

Who is our turnover leader- too slack to look at stats

Bonner is probably unfairly maligned. He's had a couple of poor weeks but overall he's been a massive win. When a depth top up that cost nothing plays just about every game it's a win.

He's fourth for possessions, seventh for marks, ninth in disposal efficiency, sixth in clangers (equal with Nas), fourth in effective disposals, third in rebound 50s, equal eighth (with Brad Hill) for SC score etc.

He's certainly not elite and he makes mistakes but they tend to get focussed on and his good plays get over looked. He tries a lot of high risk kicks because of his long kicking and when they don't come off they are really damaging.

Brad Hill can make some absolute howlers too but we like him so gets let off. If Bonner is your 23rd player you are going well for depth. He's a classic Lyon player, has flaws but his game as an overall adds to the side.

 

[Ads734]

I'm speaking generally.

He doesn't praise his players for a good game like other coaches do in their press conferences.

He's always been like it... well as long as I can remember, anyway.

I think Ross is incredibly calculated with every comment he makes about individuals. Most seem to speak very highly of him so I’ll back them in.

 

[Klaatu]

can someone explain to me how King got a week but Liam Ryan didnt get shit?

MRO have become "gun shy" because of players going to appeals board and winning, it's making a mockery of the MRO to the point it has become irrelevent.

May as well send everything to the tribunal to decide like the old days.

 

[The Punter]

Disposal efficiency is a rubbish stat. If you bomb it to a pack and the opposition ends up with the ball it’s still counted as an effective disposal. Go watch each of his disposals in the first half and tell me how many you are happy with.
The Steele part is because he is often in contested situations where a turnover is more likely. Bonner is an uncontested player turning over the ball. So what’s he there for?
We aren’t getting to finals, and even with we were I’d doubt bonner in the team would change anything. Instead he’s just holding someone else out the team for some reason that a lot of us can’t see.

This idea that Steele only kicks it forward out of deep congestion is also shash. Plenty of getting outside of the contest, kicking the ball forward and almost hitting the roof, regardless of forward's position. He's on a par with Marshall with forward 50 entry quality (and Marshall does it a lot more in congestion).

On this year's displayed performance, these are the players I'd rather have kicking to me if I was a forward (above Steele): Windhager, Ross, NWM, Hill, Clark, King, Byrnes, Stocker, Butler, Hayes, Howard, Wilson, Henry, Phillipou, Battle, Schoenmaker, Webster, Wood, Sinclair, Bonner, Wilkie.

 

[Saintbloke]

The eye test tells me that even if Bonner's not directly turning it over, his 'effective' disposals feel to be mostly either hot potato handballs to someone else because he doesn't want to make the decision himself, or long kicks to contests down the line. Both are better than turnovers of course, but on top of that, when he does turn it over it's usually both obvious and damaging. He's probably not as bad as people say but he's not great either.

Steele isn't here for his field kicking. It just needs to be servicable, as long as he gets into contests and does the harder stuff (which he does). FWIW I thought he was below his usual standard on the weekend. His disposal was pretty poor, including the shocker that directly led to a goal. Despite that, he was still one of our best.

Champion midfielders amongst other things, have reliable disposal by hand and foot, and usually to a teammate in a better position- it's something we fail badly in. Steele is not there just to be serviceable. Probably the best foot passes to forwards in better positions were by Jones an Sharman against WCE. Bonner moved the ball very well too.

 

[gringo2011]

Champion midfielders amongst other things, have reliable disposal by hand and foot, and usually to a teammate in a better position- it's something we fail badly in. Steele is not there just to be serviceable. Probably the best foot passes to forwards in better positions were by Jones an Sharman against WCE. Bonner moved the ball very well too.

Funny enough I reckon the guy who delivers the ball inside 50 best at the Saints is Byrnes. For a guy with supposed horrible kicking he's one of our best at hitting up a forward on the lead.

 

[sauce_head]

Champion midfielders amongst other things, have reliable disposal by hand and foot, and usually to a teammate in a better position- it's something we fail badly in. Steele is not there just to be serviceable. Probably the best foot passes to forwards in better positions were by Jones an Sharman against WCE. Bonner moved the ball very well too.

Nathan Fyfe says hi!