Game Day Round 2 Carlton v Brisbane Match Discussion

[blue gunslinger]

monster shorts counts

 

[Bring on Vinnie]

Collingwood, Geelong and Hawthorn might have something to say about that.

To win a flag, we need to find a power forward who is the perfect complement to Waite.

Someone like Rowe or Mitchell.

If Mitchell or Rowe were to develop that would be sensational but I'm not sure how crucial power forwards are to winning a flag relative to a gun midfield, watertight defence and multiple forward options. The Cats have had all these aspects covered without having gun power forwards.

Mooney was a tough competitor, Pods has been handy and Hawkins finally came good in last year's GF last year but Chapman, Johnson, the goalkicking abilities of Bartel, Ablett and recently Menzel, Varcoe and Stokes have separated Geelong from the rest over the last five years. We are so much better with Waite on the park, but the Walker, Betts and Garlett options will give opposition teams nightmares this year. Add their defensive pressure and we can really limit the oppositions run out of the backline. If Juddy, Murph, Gibbs, Simmo and Robbo keep pressing forward we have a formula very similar to that which has served the Cats so well.

 

[Silvagnis]

So how do you explain Collingwood not winning the premiership last year when they had Dawes complimenting Cloke yet Geelong lost Jpod halfway through the match and Hawkins took all those marks and kept missing but were still able to smash them in the end? In fact, I would go as far as to say losing JPod was a blessing in disguise because it gave Hawkins more space to take charge in the forward line.

It isn't a coincidence that the top four sides had at least two tall forwards. We have a 29 year old lead up forward. We still need that big forward who can stand under the pack and contest the inevitable long kick. If not to mark it, but to bring it to ground for our mids and ground level forwards.

If Waite is out with another injury, who comes in for him?

We need to find either a KPF or a tall defender so Henderson can go forward again.

Our forward line is perfectly fine for our game, we play a fast paced, play on almost at all times style and it compliments our forward line so well because they are all fast and athletic players. Walker, Waite, Betts, Garlett, Kreuzer/Hampson and a resting mid like Murphy/Judd/Simpson/Robinson looks like the perfect combo of height and speed/endurance to me and I would also say our forward line is the most dynamic in the comp along with the Hawks.
As for being flag favourites with the talent we have on every line, 40YearBlue has to remember that Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn and even West Coast have plenty of talent on every line as well, it's just a matter of which team is able to bring their absolute best for the big games and Geelong have proven time and time again that they know how to bring it better than anyone. The good news is, we have the game to worry them especially at the MCG with our speed on the bigger ground. I would be more confident if we had to play Geelong or Collingwood in the GF than Hawthorn. But anyways it's far too early to say who the top flag contender is yet this season, we'll have a better understanding once the season unfolds.

IF we can beat the Pies, Hawks and Cats then I would say we're solid flag favourites.

We'll have the perfect forwardline if we can beat one of the top three sides.

Anything else is pie in the sky.

Pies would be confident of covering our tall forwards with Tarrant, Reid, Brown and Maxwell.

 

[blues4flag]

With our spread of goalkickers, I'm not worried at all of a dominant key forward being needed. Betts, Garlett and Walker were an excellent trio but we look like adding a fit Waite and Hampson to that equation. Kreuzer's hands look far stickier than they did last year and a goal a game playing predominantly in the ruck isn't beyond him.

Not to mention our midfield group kicking goals. Murphy is the obvious one but I'm calling it now - expect to see far more of a running game from Judd this season. Albeit against a hapless Brisbane, he should have kicked 5 if not for a couple untimely fumbles. He's leaner and it shows. As agile as he's ever been since coming to Carlton.

Chris Yarran is getting forward more and kicking goals, with 3 in the first 2 games. Might struggle to do so against better opposition but if he's allowed to push further up the wings, he's a chance to kick 20.

Kade Simpson and Mitch Robinson are good for 30 shots on goal per season. How much of those they convert is a different story. If they kick at 60% I'd expect at least 30 between them (they managed 27 last year with Kade below 50% and Mitch at 30%).

Bryce Gibbs has shown his ability to kick goals when played in the middle and forward of centre. He averaged 2 goals a game in the last 7 weeks last season. Once Duigan and Jamo are back and he's released up the field, put him down for 30.

Do we have a big key forward capable of 70 goals a year? Probably not. What we do have is one of the most unpredictable and multi-faceted attacks in the league. And that's not to mention the goals that the rest of the boys out there will contribute on any given day. If Thornton gets decent game time he's a chance to nudge 20.

Betts: 50
Waite: 50
Garlett: 50
Walker: 45 (due to games missed)
Hampson: 30
Gibbs: 30
Murphy: 25
Kreuzer: 20
Judd: 20
Simpson: 20
Robinson: 20
Yarran: 15

That's a hell of a lot of goals but we've already seen it's going to be a high scoring season. And few teams are more than suited to the fast running style of play than Carlton is.

Bring on Friday night.

 

[blues4flag]

It isn't a coincidence that the top four sides had at least two tall forwards. We have a 29 year old lead up forward. We still need that big forward who can stand under the pack and contest the inevitable long kick. If not to mark it, but to bring it to ground for our mids and ground level forwards.

Football's changing, TG. Speed kills and we've got in spades. Give Garlett, Betts or Walker a paddock on the transition and they'll cut you up.

Hampson's development has been brilliant. Will he clunk everything? No. Might be games where he doesn't mark anything. But you can bet that 7 times out of 10 neither will his opponent. Can't think of another team in the competition who's more effective with the ball on the deck in their forward line.

IIRC, we scored more goals from I50 stoppages than any other team last year. With Waite and Hampson to compete down there, ground level goals will only go up.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Yep. Which is why we might have to wait till next season or beyond.

So you seriously don't think we can beat the Cats, Pies and/or Hawks this year? Can you tell me what you base that on?

Last year, the second time we played the Pies we didn't have Waite or Jamison IIRC and Kreuze wasn't really at his best playing just his 4th or 5th game back from the knee reco. We'd have to be really unlucky to not have our 3 key big men at full force this season. Anyway, we only lost by a few goals and considering those circumstances there is no reason to believe why we can't beat them this year.

They should be weaker when you factor in they lost Leigh Brown so a 30yo+ Jolly has to shoulder most of the ruck work while we have 2 young quality, athletic and fast ruckmen in Hampson and Kreuzer to double team him. Plus Malthouse isn't coaching anymore, they've lost Krakeour and Davis and Dawes has fallen by the way side with his form. We're a very good chance if we have to face them in the finals.

As for the Cats, last year at Etihad they were lucky they'd won. If Warnock didn't miss that game was ours. We'd also beaten them in early 2010 and in 2009 IIRC. Factor in our improvement and their slight decline along with the fact that if we play in the finals it'll be at the MCG which should suit us better, we're also a very good chance if we have to play them in the finals.

That leaves the Hawks. They're the ones we should worry about the most they haven't lost to us since 2005 IINM, but that doesn't really count since we're both different teams since then. Still that is a head 2 head that will give them confidence against us. The main positive to draw out of us playing the Hawks will again be the MCG factor. It suits our game far better than Eithad stadium where we lost to them last year by a couple of goals (after being down by about 40 early on). Waite also didn't play that game and Jamo played his first game back where we had no choice but to move him forward because he wasn't given the chance to find some form and to go against Franklin was always going to be really tough and we needed a target in Waite's absence. They'll be the toughest opponent for us IMO but we can definitely beat them especially at the MCG.

So yeah, I think we can win the flag this year provided we keep playing well and we are a bit luckier with our injuries.

 

[Dale Gribble]

Collingwood, Geelong and Hawthorn might have something to say about that.

To win a flag, we need to find a power forward who is the perfect complement to Waite.

Someone like Rowe or Mitchell.

I like Mitchell surely 2013 will be his year of luck.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

It isn't a coincidence that the top four sides had at least two tall forwards. We have a 29 year old lead up forward. We still need that big forward who can stand under the pack and contest the inevitable long kick. If not to mark it, but to bring it to ground for our mids and ground level forwards.

Isn't it a coincidence that our small/med forwards Betts (50), Garlett (48) and Walker (56) kicked a total of 154 goals compared to Cloke (69), Dawes (27) and Krakeour's (35) total of 131? And Geelong's JPod (52), Hawkins (27) and Steve J's (50) total of 129? And Hawthorn's Franklin (82), Breust (30) and Rioli's (29) total of 141?

If Waite is out with another injury, who comes in for him?

We need to find either a KPF or a tall defender so Henderson can go forward again.

Yes IF Waite is out again with a major injury then we will definitely need backup but we will not be decimated by it. At worst, we could throw Thornton up there or make Hammer a permanent forward and bring in Warnock to share ruck with Kreuzer.

But, that wasn't your original argument, you said we need someone to compliment Waite to win the flag, not someone to replace Waite should he get injured.

We'll have the perfect forwardline if we can beat one of the top three sides.

Anything else is pie in the sky.

We beat Geelong and Saint Kilda in 2010 back to back rounds 5 & 6 IIRC. They were the reigning premiers and runners up. Does that mean we had the perfect forward line back then?

Our problem against the top sides isn't our forward line it's our ability to stay focussed for the whole game. At times last year we had lapses which cost us. That improves with experience and is the reason why we'll be harder to beat this year. The Hawks lost to the Pies because they couldn't continue to stay focussed in the last quarter.

Pies would be confident of covering our tall forwards with Tarrant, Reid, Brown and Maxwell.

Well we don't have many tall forwards so good luck to them playing all those tall defenders against Garlett, Betts and Walker.

 

[The_Wookie]

Goal scoring is not the problem with this team. I disagree with the notion that a power forward is necessary. Look at the results so far this season, TWELVE goal scorers a game is preferable to relying on one big guy to kick a bag - hi fev!

We've built a team of runners, and we pile into the inside 50 area that way. Many of our goals result from forward pressure, crumbing or brilliance like murphy and yarran's goals. We take quite a few marks inside forward 50 thanks to walker, waite and betts.

Power forward isnt the only way to do things just because everyone else hasnt made it work.

 

[rp84]

I'm as excited as the next guy, but surely we aren't close to being flag favourites.

Hell, we are not even a lock for top 4 by pure virtue of 4 others very good teams. We didn't beat west coast last year, as close as we were. They look pretty decent. The benefit of 12 home games is massive.

Geelong have the runs on the board. I do fancy beating them though.

We haven't beaten the pies in ages. They are struggling a touch now, so we have our best chance next Friday. In fact, it'll be a little hard to get excited about premierships if we can't get over them. Really keen for us to come up big in a big game. Has certainly been our Achilles heel, rarely winning the big ones.

Then we have the hawks. By far and away the team to beat in 2012. We just can't stop them. Haven't done so for a long time. The easily have the best 22 and they have buddy. A player that can beat us off his own boot. For mine, if we get close to the hawks, then I will get excited.

The prematurity of flag talk may be a bit embarrassing for some. It is only round two, and we have played teams that will rank 10-14.

Beat the pies and then maybe start thinking top four.

Perform well against west coast, cats and hawks, then maybe get excited for a flag tilt. I will get doubly excited if we can keep a strong team on the park. I feel we really need duigan and jammo fit for the big games. Emu has gone ok, but he hasn't yet had a stern test.

Nevertheless, we do look fit, fast and skilful. A joy to watch! Keep up the defensive pressure lads, and we will go far. As I said pregame, our pressure is nearly best in the league. Will lead to a lot of blowout wins against lowly teams and give us a huge chance against the top teams. Is integral to our chances.

Go blues!

 

[40yearBLUE]

I agree the Hawks look good this year. With Roughie to come back in they have a good spread of talent too. But what if Buddie was to go down with an injury? I think they are far more dependent on him than we are on any one player.

Anyway, its not really what I meant. I guess I should have said what I meant.

I meant that we have such spectacular players just oozing talent, it seems each week will be a new highlight reel. Last week Yazz's goal, this week Murphs goal and the Eddie screamers. Next week it will be Jeff's turn to do the impossible.

What was annoying me though, and why we are not being spoken of as flag favorites, just as "top 4 aspirants" is evident in the commentary when one of our boys does the briliant feat...."its Buddy like isnt it?" or "he thinks he's Rioli". So next week, will a Buddy goal be Yarran llike? or will a screamer be "he thinks he's Eddie"?

The commentators havent caught on yet. The Hawks flag was a generation ago in footy terms yet they have the commentators eye as genuine contenders. I dont think we do yet. We will soon.

Its true we have to beat the other contenders. But Hawthorn beat WC by a kick last year (we failed by a kick!) and they failed in every attempt v Cats or Pies. So what is it that has elevated them to such status this year and not us? Had Knockers kicked the goal against the Cats would we now be as sure a thing as the Hawks seem to be? Perhaps after we beat the Pies next week the tone will change.

 

[rp84]

All very fair mate.

I think the excitement around the hawks is due to them being so good with a large group of 2nd-4th year players. They have an
Enormous amount of improvement to come.

The idea that they only bear eagles by a goal and we
Missed the eagles by a goal makes iana two goal worse
Team is a little simplistic. The truth is the have the gameplan and the matchups to see us off fairly easily. We commonly beat Geelong for that exact reason.

Team that do well against us normally have very good pressure and contest the stoppages well. AND they almost always have a good KPF. They take our run and carry away and then we struggle. At
Least that is how it's been the last two years. With experience, we
May be able to break that. Hawks are very reliant in buddy but he is a great player to rely on. From memory, has only had one extended stint out. Conversely, if the injury probe rioli plays a full season, the sky is the limit.

I worry that we had to play a bit of a
Magical game against the eagles. Their bigs certainly
Worry us, and Kennedy could become the second best forward in the league this season. Looks amazing. I pray we
Finish above them because if we get them
In the finals we need to be at home. I would loathe another interstate knockout final.

Still, as we said. Take some scalps, name top 4, and play all our finals in vi iris
And we have a chance. Minimum for me is a win next
Week, beat Geelong by a good margin, and beat the eagles in victoria ( if we
Get them there). Then you'll see me and I think the boys really excited!

I agree the Hawks look good this year. With Roughie to come back in they have a good spread of talent too. But what if Buddie was to go down with an injury? I think they are far more dependent on him than we are on any one player.

Anyway, its not really what I meant. I guess I should have said what I meant.

I meant that we have such spectacular players just oozing talent, it seems each week will be a new highlight reel. Last week Yazz's goal, this week Murphs goal and the Eddie screamers. Next week it will be Jeff's turn to do the impossible.

What was annoying me though, and why we are not being spoken of as flag favorites, just as "top 4 aspirants" is evident in the commentary when one of our boys does the briliant feat...."its Buddy like isnt it?" or "he thinks he's Rioli". So next week, will a Buddy goal be Yarran llike? or will a screamer be "he thinks he's Eddie"?

The commentators havent caught on yet. The Hawks flag was a generation ago in footy terms yet they have the commentators eye as genuine contenders. I dont think we do yet. We will soon.

Its true we have to beat the other contenders. But Hawthorn beat WC by a kick last year (we failed by a kick!) and they failed in every attempt v Cats or Pies. So what is it that has elevated them to such status this year and not us? Had Knockers kicked the goal against the Cats would we now be as sure a thing as the Hawks seem to be? Perhaps after we beat the Pies next week the tone will change.

 

[Silvagnis]

Isn't it a coincidence that our small/med forwards Betts (50), Garlett (48) and Walker (56) kicked a total of 154 goals compared to Cloke (69), Dawes (27) and Krakeour's (35) total of 131? And Geelong's JPod (52), Hawkins (27) and Steve J's (50) total of 129? And Hawthorn's Franklin (82), Breust (30) and Rioli's (29) total of 141?

Their ground level forwards benefit from having tall targets to work off.

Yes IF Waite is out again with a major injury then we will definitely need backup but we will not be decimated by it. At worst, we could throw Thornton up there or make Hammer a permanent forward and bring in Warnock to share ruck with Kreuzer.

But, that wasn't your original argument, you said we need someone to compliment Waite to win the flag, not someone to replace Waite should he get injured.

Thornton, Hampson and Kreuzer wouldn't work without Waite.

We need a Rowe, Mitchell or Casboult to step up.

The ideal result would be McCarthy or Watson taking CHB in a breakout season so Henderson can play CHF.

We beat Geelong and Saint Kilda in 2010 back to back rounds 5 & 6 IIRC. They were the reigning premiers and runners up. Does that mean we had the perfect forward line back then?

What?

Essendon beat Geelong last year, but they aren't a top four side.

Our problem against the top sides isn't our forward line it's our ability to stay focussed for the whole game. At times last year we had lapses which cost us. That improves with experience and is the reason why we'll be harder to beat this year. The Hawks lost to the Pies because they couldn't continue to stay focussed in the last quarter.

Hawks lost after the Pies went long to Cloke or Dawes to force Schoenmakers to rush a spoil.Rest is history after the ball landed in Ball's hands. Long kicking is back in vogue. You need two big targets. Hampson was this target against Richmond, but will need to do it regularly against better opposition.

Well we don't have many tall forwards so good luck to them playing all those tall defenders against Garlett, Betts and Walker.

Tarrant to Walker
Reid to Waite
Maxwell to Thornton
Brown to Hampson or Kreuzer
O'Brien to Betts
Shaw or Toovey to Garlett

We'd be better of with a bigger forward in Thornton's place who can exploit the Maxwell match up.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Their ground level forwards benefit from having tall targets to work off.

Really? Their small targets are reaping the benefits are they? Why aren't they scoring anywhere near the amount of goals our small forwards are especially when you factor in Waite was missing for a lot of last season? Show me the stats that back up what you're saying, what are these small forwards benefitting from exactly when they've scored nowhere near as many goals as our small forwards who didn't have the luxury of the big targets to "benefit" from?

Thornton, Hampson and Kreuzer wouldn't work without Waite.

Oh ok we should just take your word for it right? Wonder how the hell our team even scored last year while Waite was out

We need a Rowe, Mitchell or Casboult to step up.

Yep would be great if they did but all three haven't played one game for us yet (unless Casboult played one or two somewhere that I'm forgetting) so I highly doubt they will be stepping up this year or even next.

But we can still win the premiership without them and I've already explained why.

The ideal result would be McCarthy or Watson taking CHB in a breakout season so Henderson can play CHF.

lol ideally we'd win every premiership but it aint going to happen, just like Watson and McCarthy having a breakout season. These key position players need more time to develop they're not like midfielders where you give them a couple years and they're into the swing of things.

What?

Essendon beat Geelong last year, but they aren't a top four side.

You missed my point. You said we'll have a perfect forward line if we beat one of the top 3 teams, my argument was that we did just that a couple years ago and quite comfortably too I might add, so again I ask does that mean we had a perfect forward line in 2010? Of course not, we have the perfect forward line for our game and the statistics back that up. We have a very even spread of goal kickers almost every week if anything, we need our midfielders to step up and kick more goals, Murph and Simmo were the only ones last year, we need Judd and Gibbs to step in. Gibbs was towards the later stages of last year so hopefully when we get our full defence in he can get back to that.

Hawks lost after the Pies went long to Cloke or Dawes to force Schoenmakers to rush a spoil.Rest is history after the ball landed in Ball's hands. Long kicking is back in vogue. You need two big targets. Hampson was this target against Richmond, but will need to do it regularly against better opposition.

Rubbish, you're basing that on one piece of play, I'm talking about the whole last quarter where the Hawks were clearly not playing at the same level they were for the previous 3.

Again I'll ask you this how is it possible that Geelong won the grand final last year after Jpod went off at half time? They didn't have 2 big targets for a whole half yet their forward line functioned quite well with Hawkins as the one main big target. In fact, they were smashing the Pies with a more open forward line.

West Coast had about 4 tall targets against us (Kennedy, Darling, Lynch and Cox/NicNat) while we didn't even have Waite or Kruezer yet we lost by less than a kick. How do you explain that? WC could very well be our opponents if we make a GF this year especially if they get a home prelim.

Tarrant to Walker
Reid to Waite
Maxwell to Thornton
Brown to Hampson or Kreuzer
O'Brien to Betts
Shaw or Toovey to Garlett


We'd be better of with a bigger forward in Thornton's place who can exploit the Maxwell match up.

Hammer's pace and height would exploit the Brown match up, as would Kreuzer's marking ability. Waite on Reid is another match up that works in our favour, I'd also back Walker, Betts and Garlett against any defensive trio, the stats speak for themselves they were the best forward trio in the league last season and Betts and Garlett don't seem to be slowing down and I'd back Walker to slot right in and perform well again up there this season too.

The Hawks only had Franklin and still almost got into the GF last year. The game is much more fast paced especially our style which suits faster more agile targets who win the ball at ground level. Hammer and Waite almost always provide a decent contest so if they don't mark our smalls swoop. Betts and Walker are also very quick off the lead and great overhead marks and Jeffy's pretty good too at that too.

 

[40yearBLUE]

All very fair mate.

I think the excitement around the hawks is due to them being so good with a large group of 2nd-4th year players. They have an
Enormous amount of improvement to come.

The idea that they only bear eagles by a goal and we
Missed the eagles by a goal makes iana two goal worse
Team is a little simplistic. The truth is the have the gameplan and the matchups to see us off fairly easily. We commonly beat Geelong for that exact reason.

Team that do well against us normally have very good pressure and contest the stoppages well. AND they almost always have a good KPF. They take our run and carry away and then we struggle. At
Least that is how it's been the last two years. With experience, we
May be able to break that. Hawks are very reliant in buddy but he is a great player to rely on. From memory, has only had one extended stint out. Conversely, if the injury probe rioli plays a full season, the sky is the limit.

I worry that we had to play a bit of a
Magical game against the eagles. Their bigs certainly
Worry us, and Kennedy could become the second best forward in the league this season. Looks amazing. I pray we
Finish above them because if we get them
In the finals we need to be at home. I would loathe another interstate knockout final.

Still, as we said. Take some scalps, name top 4, and play all our finals in vi iris
And we have a chance. Minimum for me is a win next
Week, beat Geelong by a good margin, and beat the eagles in victoria ( if we
Get them there). Then you'll see me and I think the boys really excited!

Not sure what some of that means.

You say the Hawks have a great group of 2-4 year players, we have a great group of 2-4 year players. And we are not as reliant on one player as they are.

We have at just as good a list as the Hawks, just as much upside and improvement to come, and are capable of beating them, the Cats and the Pies.

When we do, and we will, people will take notice. I dont doubt that they are the team to beat, in fact I think the Hawks and Blues will play off in the GF this year.

I think we will beat Collingwood next week. But even if we dont (they are still a formidable team even though I think they will drop a little this year), it does not mean we a) cant, b) wont later in the year or c) are not genuine contenders.

I dont have any fear of WC. They have lost 2 of their better forwards for the season (LaCras and Nicoski) and 3 of their better talls (Lynch, Glass and Cox) are getting on a bit as is Kerr. They have some exiting players, Kennedy is a gun and NicNat could be, but I think we have a better spread of talent. I think they are a top 4 contender though.

 

[blue gunslinger]

for all the discussion this undefeated thing is something we should maintain as long as possible
in my humble opinion

 

[rp84]

I think the hawks have a better group of those young players. We have MK and Yarran as a graders. They have probably only Cyril as an a grader, but their next few guys are better than ours. Smith, savage, shoenmakers are pretty handy. Added to that, is Clarkson always has them well drilled. Certainly has the tactical advantage over most coaches in the league.

It is purely hypothetical but until we beat some good teams we dont deserve to be listed as a contender. Hawks have easily accounted for us for years. Until we knock them off, we are a bit away. Their over reliance on one guy is obvious, but if he is playing, they are favourites to beat us no doubt.

All I'm calling for is perspective. We will beat up on the lesser teams, and have a crack at the good teams. Until we win big games regularly, we aren't in with a chance. We have barely won a big game with this list. This is one of my major issues. Time for our boys to step up and become big game players. The hawks have buddy, Mitchell and hodge as proven big game winners. And a bunch of excellent role players. How many of the guys in our team have ever beaten the pies or hawks? Jeez, we only just started beating the bombers consistently even though we have been better for years. The majority of this group has won 1/4 finals, when they should have won all four. It is a little fanciful to expect it all to click and suddenly win all these games. It might happen, but the only real signs are to win some big regular season games.

Your comments on the eagles though are fairly meaningless. Clearly they're up for it this season, ageing team or not. A good interstate team is going to win more games than a good Melbourne team purely by virtue of a big home ground advantage. We need to have a very good year to get the ~16 wins it'll take to get into the top 4.

Not sure what some of that means.

You say the Hawks have a great group of 2-4 year players, we have a great group of 2-4 year players. And we are not as reliant on one player as they are.

We have at just as good a list as the Hawks, just as much upside and improvement to come, and are capable of beating them, the Cats and the Pies.

When we do, and we will, people will take notice. I dont doubt that they are the team to beat, in fact I think the Hawks and Blues will play off in the GF this year.

I think we will beat Collingwood next week. But even if we dont (they are still a formidable team even though I think they will drop a little this year), it does not mean we a) cant, b) wont later in the year or c) are not genuine contenders.

I dont have any fear of WC. They have lost 2 of their better forwards for the season (LaCras and Nicoski) and 3 of their better talls (Lynch, Glass and Cox) are getting on a bit as is Kerr. They have some exiting players, Kennedy is a gun and NicNat could be, but I think we have a better spread of talent. I think they are a top 4 contender though.

 

[rp84]

And my point about those 2-4th year players is that they have been so good with a fair proportion of players in that bracket.

They have the stars. The proven big game players. The gameplan. They are clearly the team to beat.

Nevertheless, I love where we are going AND will be very freaking excited if we win next week. The pies are essentially on their kneesin terms of form and fitness. We need to put them away.

 

[rp84]

The more I think about, the more we need the win to gain that self belief. They are far from full strength in terms of fitness and form. We take the scalp now, we can build on that. Lose now, and I seriously wonder if we can beat them this year.


We will be close though.

 

[blue gunslinger]

we have stars and a good plan
win or lose friday we have big things on the horizon be it this year or next
one game will not make or break that

 

[40yearBLUE]

I'm with you Guns. Club seems very focused on process and systems. Plan is bang on target for mine.

 

[rp84]

Haha but that is a nothing comment.

Yes, the plan is on track. Yes we look good. That isn't the point or the argument.

It it is beating big teams in big games that will be the determinant in our success for this year.

 

[rp84]

And it is also pertinent to note that if we can't beat a relatively struggling pies team, there Is no logical reason to expect to beat them later This season.

While one game, especially so early, won't win or lose you a season, it can go a ling way to determining the mindset and therefore the expectations for the season.

 

[Silvagnis]

And it is also pertinent to note that if we can't beat a relatively struggling pies team, there Is no logical reason to expect to beat them later This season.

While one game, especially so early, won't win or lose you a season, it can go a ling way to determining the mindset and therefore the expectations for the season.

Is it really that simple?

The Pies are still a top three side after pushing Hawthorn with a quarter of their best side missing.

They flicked the switch against Richmond after half time too.

As long as we put in the effort and planning, then the results will take care of themselves. We have a lot of improvement to come with our rucks, mids and backline. The backs are finally become a team within a team.

Before the Hawks won their last flag, they lost to the Richmond (ninth), Dogs, Saints and Geelong in the H & A season. They reversed these losses in the finals to win the flag by changing their game plan to defeat the unbeatable Cats.

Far too early to be pessimistic about chances as a team. It's still round three for Carlton as well. Injury management and luck will make or break Carlton.

 

[rp84]

Very fair TG.

I'm not pessimistic. I just need to proof in the pudding.

The pies havent been terrible. But they have been a lot worse than they were when we lost by 4-5 goals last year.

I would love for us to win, and i think we have a good chance.

I just think our issue is the big games, as i keep saying. Yes the hawks lost those games, but they had still won huge games. Teams have slip ups when they're not meant to. I read a lot into games that we are meant to be 100% geared up for.

It is just being logical and realistic UNTIL we take some scalps. It certainly isn't pessimism.