Review Round 2 vs Western Bulldogs @ Mars Stadium - 24th March 2024 - 12:00pm AEST

[KaySwizzle]

Hardly Berry's fault his impact was so low, how is he supposed to put on ground ball pressure when our mids just kicked it to the Dogs defenders, or over our key forwards heads and our KPFs didn't win or halve like 70% of the aerial contests. We went in to tall up forward and paid a dear price because we had no pressure in the forward line. Ben King needs a rocket up him, it's like watching Peter Wright out there again, soft as butter in the air. So frustrating.

King had a good run-down tackle and kicked the most goals on our team. Just seemed to be in the wrong places for the kick, or the kick went to the wrong places (or both). How many 2v1s, 3v1s or even 4v1s to King did we kick? Gave him no chance.

I actually think our forward structure is the problem. We congest too much. We just never seem to have a one-on-one. You can see when there is spread we find a target inside 50; when there isn’t, we bomb it. Been the story for years.

And we lack a dangerous small with Rosas out, which shows. Opposition can just peel off and attack the contest rather than watch their forward.

I don’t think we are using Ainsworth or Luko correctly, either. Especially Ainsworth, as he hardly gets the ball.

Holman is a liability half the time—bobs up for a goal or tackle, but I think he’s definitely slowing down and gets too frustrated and aggressive, giving away frees. At least Berry had pace.

So yeah, plenty to work on with the forward line. The nucleus is there, but I think 2-3 players are letting us down, and another half dozen are chronically underperforming when the chips are down.

 

[Jirik13]

King had a good run-down tackle and kicked the most goals on our team. Just seemed to be in the wrong places for the kick, or the kick went to the wrong places (or both). How many 2v1s, 3v1s or even 4v1s to King did we kick? Gave him no chance.

I actually think our forward structure is the problem. We congest too much. We just never seem to have a one-on-one. You can see when there is spread we find a target inside 50; when there isn’t, we bomb it. Been the story for years.

And we lack a dangerous small with Rosas out, which shows. Opposition can just peel off and attack the contest rather than watch their forward.

I don’t think we are using Ainsworth or Luko correctly, either. Especially Ainsworth, as he hardly gets the ball.

Holman is a liability half the time—bobs up for a goal or tackle, but I think he’s definitely slowing down and gets too frustrated and aggressive, giving away frees. At least Berry had pace.

So yeah, plenty to work on with the forward line. The nucleus is there, but I think 2-3 players are letting us down, and another half dozen are chronically underperforming when the chips are down.

Main blame has to go to midfield. That first quarter was a complete disaster and ball was going so quickly and easily into our defence who were badly exposed. Midfield improved in 2nd qtr and in 3rd until Ballard turnover changed momentum but still these were schocking deliveries I50 - basically bombs 90% of time.

I also don't like how Dimma set up our forward line. I understand he wanted to have Casboult assisting Moyle but that was a crazy line-up. If Dew done it (he did it once) people would be all over him. Luko forward is way more valuable, and he can now kick straight. Luko can also deliver I50.

Not sure what people expect King to do with those crazy deliveries into packs, 2-3 players hanging on to him. He still kicked 2 goals and should have 3. How many contested marks/goals did contested mark beast Casboult have?

I give Dimma some time, let's say 10 games to implement his plan and I expect up and down games but some of his line-up calls were a bit head scratching especially against Bulldogs. Personally, I am also not buying Dimma's argument for 1st qtr lapse that it took us some time to adjust to Ballarat ground. Most players played there several times.

 

[Sun Stormer]

King had a good run-down tackle and kicked the most goals on our team. Just seemed to be in the wrong places for the kick, or the kick went to the wrong places (or both). How many 2v1s, 3v1s or even 4v1s to King did we kick? Gave him no chance.

I actually think our forward structure is the problem. We congest too much. We just never seem to have a one-on-one. You can see when there is spread we find a target inside 50; when there isn’t, we bomb it. Been the story for years.

And we lack a dangerous small with Rosas out, which shows. Opposition can just peel off and attack the contest rather than watch their forward.

I don’t think we are using Ainsworth or Luko correctly, either. Especially Ainsworth, as he hardly gets the ball.

Holman is a liability half the time—bobs up for a goal or tackle, but I think he’s definitely slowing down and gets too frustrated and aggressive, giving away frees. At least Berry had pace.

So yeah, plenty to work on with the forward line. The nucleus is there, but I think 2-3 players are letting us down, and another half dozen are chronically underperforming when the chips are down.

Old broken record here but it has to continually be said.
There are playerds who no longer are relevant in the move forward - Casboult, Ellis are certainties for the heap. Swallow bless his heart and soul must be considering where his future lies. Holman is just not good enough consistently to hold his spot. One or two flashy moments is not enough. A poor team's Lincoln McCarthy I've always felt. Sexton, Fiorini, Atkins and Ainsworth on borrowed time but will hold their spots for now. Buderick has a big question mark on him. That's Dimma's 20% right there. Replace from the following - Will Graham, Clohesy, Faulkhead, Jake Rogers, Mac Andrew, Joel Jeffery, Ethan Reid and of course Rosas, Humphrey and Weller to come back in over time ahead. We desperately need a big KPD to assist Collins - Ballard seems well off and not big enough nor is Andrew. Liam Jones anybody?? We also need a mid who can both get in and under and get the ball out to wings or outside mids. Miller, Rowell and Anderson are good at what they do but their delivery to next in chain is questionable. Touk in particular has dropped back into his grab and hack mode for some reason. Lost pace? The delivery to forwards remains abysmal - don't blame King, Luko etc. I forgot Flanders - at the moment he seems to be the best at getting the ball out and distributed to the next link....and I'm NOT underestimating Rowell's grunt. He's an inspiration but not great at that next phase. Over and out until next week.

 

[Young_Guns]

I think it was clear that the plan was to overwhelm the Bulldogs defence and just put it up for our many forwards, but it failed miserably. Noah and Touk in particular need to be better with ball in hand as they are our outside guys in the middle. But Walter, King, Lukosius rotating out of the square is absolutely the go, not what we saw today.

The King conundrum is interesting as well. Yes he kicked 2 goals, but the guy is getting paid 900k? and just doesn’t draw a presence in the forward line yet. Doesn’t particularly use his speed to lead out and demand a spearing kick to him. He just stands around the square and sticks a hand up for the bomb which works 1-2 times per game unless he can get a mismatch. He just needs to get much more involved. Get him up field, get him owning the 50 as a 1v1, more involved defensively. I don’t know what, but we need him going out thinking he is THE MAN and that the ball is his as soon as it’s coming forward, like Walter does.

 

[lommy]

Old broken record here but it has to continually be said.
There are playerds who no longer are relevant in the move forward - Casboult, Ellis are certainties for the heap. Swallow bless his heart and soul must be considering where his future lies. Holman is just not good enough consistently to hold his spot. One or two flashy moments is not enough. A poor team's Lincoln McCarthy I've always felt. Sexton, Fiorini, Atkins and Ainsworth on borrowed time but will hold their spots for now. Buderick has a big question mark on him. That's Dimma's 20% right there. Replace from the following - Will Graham, Clohesy, Faulkhead, Jake Rogers, Mac Andrew, Joel Jeffery, Ethan Reid and of course Rosas, Humphrey and Weller to come back in over time ahead. We desperately need a big KPD to assist Collins - Ballard seems well off and not big enough nor is Andrew. Liam Jones anybody?? We also need a mid who can both get in and under and get the ball out to wings or outside mids. Miller, Rowell and Anderson are good at what they do but their delivery to next in chain is questionable. Touk in particular has dropped back into his grab and hack mode for some reason. Lost pace? The delivery to forwards remains abysmal - don't blame King, Luko etc. I forgot Flanders - at the moment he seems to be the best at getting the ball out and distributed to the next link....and I'm NOT underestimating Rowell's grunt. He's an inspiration but not great at that next phase. Over and out until next week.

Bro wants half the team to retire, fmd


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[supernova_]

defensive pressure seemed to be way off?
we lost 1v1 matchups mostly in defence and forward lines. I think the midfield was reasonably even in terms of contest/clearances.
Checking the stats for tackles
Players with 1 tackle: Sexton, Luko, King, Ainsworth
Players with 0 tackle: Budarick, Ellis, Berry, Atkins
most of those players are considered the pressure type players we needed to perform and beat their opponent...my view that's where it was lost with these handful of players on the day.

Collins, Powell, Ballard got enough marks, not sure of their DE to rebound.
Would argue Ned Moyle was in our top 10 players on the day for a 3 gamer against English - kicked a goal, got his hand to the ball enough and followed up with some tackles.
Budarick, Long, Atkins, Ellis likely in our bottom 4 on the day?

 

[eighties]

Watched the game just then after reading the comments in this thread.

Too many key positional changes from Hardwick and expecting us to gel was too much of an ask. Think he got a bit fancy moving Luko back and playing Long fwd or Long at all.

Moyle was serviceable I thought even better than what I expected after reading a few comments in here. Casboult very poor and should spend some time in 2s.

Even Uwland wasnt as bad as i thought for someone who had 6 goals kicked on him!

They kicked straight and we kicked terribly into our fwds all day.

Not a great result but just gotta move on and hope Dimma sees the light and gets a more balanced team on the park.

 

[SandyToes]

Players with 1 tackle: Sexton, Luko, King, Ainsworth
Players with 0 tackle: Budarick, Ellis, Berry, Atkins

This is damning

 

[Jirik13]

Players with 1 tackle: Sexton, Luko, King, Ainsworth
Players with 0 tackle: Budarick, Ellis, Berry, Atkins

This is damning

Yeah, that's not great but guess how many Bulldogs players had 0 and 1 tackle - 4 and 6 (including Naughton and JUH).

 

[KaySwizzle]

Just listened to Dimma’s press conference.

He called our entries “terrible” and then walked that back. But I think that is on the money.

Part of that is mids being reckless with kicks, but part has to be how our forward line looks when they raise their eyes. Nothing is on.

We need to get our forward balance right so every player knows their role and where each player is meant to be, so that different players can spread the defence and stop getting in each other’s way.

There is enough talent in this line of the ground to be damaging. We’re just wasteful. Too many players are afraid to have a shot as well, even from 50m out—instead just handballing and handballing. Only Noah seems to have it in him.

We will look more dangerous with Rosas there. Humphrey too.

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Just listened to Dimma’s press conference.

He called our entries “terrible” and then walked that back. But I think that is on the money.

Part of that is mids being reckless with kicks, but part has to be how our forward line looks when they raise their eyes. Nothing is on.

We need to get our forward balance right so every player knows their role and where each player is meant to be, so that different players can spread the defence and stop getting in each other’s way.

There is enough talent in this line of the ground to be damaging. We’re just wasteful. Too many players are afraid to have a shot as well, even from 50m out—instead just handballing and handballing. Only Noah seems to have it in him.

We will look more dangerous with Rosas there. Humphrey too.

I would have loved to see Humphrey at a few centre bounces yesterday, especially early when treloar was getting it on the outside against Anderson and libba was all over rowell. But tbh, the dogs were just very good yesterday. They kicked straight and stacked scoreboard pressure on so it might not have made a difference who was out there but our midfield lacked another gear

 

[RowellAnderson12]

Just listened to Dimma’s press conference.

He called our entries “terrible” and then walked that back. But I think that is on the money.

Part of that is mids being reckless with kicks, but part has to be how our forward line looks when they raise their eyes. Nothing is on.

We need to get our forward balance right so every player knows their role and where each player is meant to be, so that different players can spread the defence and stop getting in each other’s way.

There is enough talent in this line of the ground to be damaging. We’re just wasteful. Too many players are afraid to have a shot as well, even from 50m out—instead just handballing and handballing. Only Noah seems to have it in him.

We will look more dangerous with Rosas there. Humphrey too.

Surely dimma game plan was not kick it to king no matter what.

Felt sorry for king, I mean the guy gets paid $1mil but seriously is no one else working hard to want a set shot on goal?

Obviously not, we need some serious goalkicking weapons end of year, can always get em on the cheap Eg. Higgins, stengle, Bedford.

Dimma and the boys need to use that as a learning curve, don’t wanna see that s again

 

[kreglze]

When you panic, you revert back to the mean, and that is bomb it to King at all costs, he wasn't helped by the kicks, but he seemingly gave up on a couple of contests, both can be true.

 

[Ben Drever]

Only one of king or Walter should leading up towards 50 to many times they were both up against each other for the mark…
We need more space
Space in a forward line generally means goals.
36 players in a forward line means NRL scrum.
And to many 50m kicks deep to top of square. You have the whole 50m arc to find someone with some space to kick it to why kick it to 25 players! Hit a nice 25m 45degree kick to a free player please.

 

[Supersuns]

Dimma loves a bomb it long game plan, won him 3 flags. We don't have the cattle to make it work though so there needs to be some adjustments on it. Few people here don't agree with me but Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

just needs to do more. If he doesn't get a lead up kick he is pretty much useless. Doesn't really crash packs and brings the ball to ground, which is poor for someone his size. Luko similar, need more mongrel out of them.

 

[Choppers]

Don't normally comment much, and I might be way out of line, but blind freddy can see we are one of the worst Clubs for forwards leading into space....have no idea whether that's a coaching issue or a player issue, but it needs to change imo, if we want success......

 

[robo_1]

Haven’t had a chance to watch the game back yet but from the ground observation you could tell from the first bounce it was over.

Moyle was very bad but slowly worked his way into it I think with more game time he would be ok but very hard for him when Witts is fit

Ellis seems cooked. Swallow probably not too far behind him
I think Buderick has had a fair run now time to go get some form in the vfl need to get Mac Andrew back into the backline somehow

Few people have been harsh online on Walter he was trying to lead up as a target but continually missed by the long bombers. Might not have had the stats but he chased hard and put pressure all day and will be better for the run
Im calling it now for him to surpass king by the end of next year

Probably time for casboult out too didn’t offer a lot other than second ruck

King is my whipping boy. He is overrated lazy doesn’t work hard stands there waiting for the kick to come to him he doesn’t off any leads or anything.
You watch the good forwards they’re always on the move or pointing for somewhere for the ball to be kicked to so he can get off his man and take a mark

A lot of skills still lacking dinky lazy kicks missing targets and some old bad habits back in late in the game

Seems Hardwick has bought in some mongrel into a few players not taking any crap from opposition. I like it but when you’re getting pumped save your energy for the game not a scrap on the floor

 

[Southern Sun]

I agree re King, when you're there live it stands out more. He doesn't move nearly as much as he should or could. It has seemed that since his injury he has struggled mentally more than anything in terms of really attacking the contest. Still think it clicks for him as he has shown in glimpses he is capable.
I have been a fan of casboult and what he's done to help the team but I think it's time to go with King, walter, luko as the forward trio and grow some cohesion between them. Mac Andrew in defence and help out in ruck.

 

[Deleted member 2402071]

For me Hardwick just thought far too much outside the box. He unnecessarily complicated things with impractical solutions. Game over before it started.

 

[NOBBYS]

You need a tough hide to be a Suns supporters.
More ups and downs than a rollercoaster at Dreamworld.
The inconsistency from week to week as well as quarter to quarter shows we still have a fair way to go to
compete with the top sides.
Hardwick and his assistants have a lot of hard work ahead of them to get us up to scratch.
Criticism of Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

it totally justified (not on his lonesome) needs alot more urgency and commitment in his game.
Starting to get a bit concerned about the non selection of Mac Andrew when we desparately needs some aerial assistance.
Is it 'lack of fitness" or "attitude" or "homesickness" not sure but Im starting to get the wrong vibes about his long term future
at the Suns.
At least its a stress free weekend.
Happy easter all.

 

[CanYouFeelTheSunburn]

You need a tough hide to be a Suns supporters.
More ups and downs than a rollercoaster at Dreamworld.
The inconsistency from week to week as well as quarter to quarter shows we still have a fair way to go to
compete with the top sides.
Hardwick and his assistants have a lot of hard work ahead of them to get us up to scratch.
Criticism of Ben King it totally justified (not on his lonesome) needs alot more urgency and commitment in his game.
Starting to get a bit concerned about the non selection of Mac Andrew when we desparately needs some aerial assistance.
Is it 'lack of fitness" or "attitude" or "homesickness" not sure but Im starting to get the wrong vibes about his long term future
at the Suns.
At least its a stress free weekend.
Happy easter all.

Concerning side note regarding Mac - a few of us had a chat to him pre game at Mars and he is at a complete loss of what more he could do to get into the team. He doesn’t understand why he is not getting the call up and is frustrated by lack of selection. Certainly not a good look from the outside looking in. It was evident we desperately needed him out there against the dogs.

 

[Jirik13]

Concerning side note regarding Mac - a few of us had a chat to him pre game at Mars and he is at a complete loss of what more he could do to get into the team. He doesn’t understand why he is not getting the call up and is frustrated by lack of selection. Certainly not a good look from the outside looking in. It was evident we desperately needed him out there against the dogs.

Did not he have interrupted pre-season (hamstring, concussion)? Surely, Dimma told him reasons

 

[Iva Bigun]

Concerning side note regarding Mac - a few of us had a chat to him pre game at Mars and he is at a complete loss of what more he could do to get into the team. He doesn’t understand why he is not getting the call up and is frustrated by lack of selection. Certainly not a good look from the outside looking in. It was evident we desperately needed him out there against the dogs.

I’m surprised by this, Dimma is well known for his communication and if Mac doesn’t know why he’s out of the team either Dimma is slipping or Mac isn’t listening.

 

[Supersuns]

I’m surprised by this, Dimma is well known for his communication and if Mac doesn’t know why he’s out of the team either Dimma is slipping or Mac isn’t listening.

Dew was hired as an excellent communicator as well, didn't stop him from alienating half the playing group.
Not sure exactly what's going on and I'm not blaming anyone but if that's what Mac is thinking then something wrong is happening.

 

[lommy]

Dew was hired as an excellent communicator as well, didn't stop him from alienating half the playing group.
Not sure exactly what's going on and I'm not blaming anyone but if that's what Mac is thinking then something wrong is happening.

It’s probably more likely that Mac didn’t feel like discussing this. I don’t know is a default response when not wanting to answer.


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