Round 21 changes: Footscray v Melbourne.

[Scotch N Coke Monatore]

If we have any selection integrity (which we usually don't) Vandermeer cannot keep his spot, today was his last chance for mine. No goals in his last 7 matches, currently ranked 15th at the club for score involvements and 13th for crumbs (10+ matches played), but his last 3 weeks have been particularly poor. He's been both rated and ranked in the bottom 5 over the last 3 weeks and his tackling and pressure which is normally his strong suit has been midtable to poor.

Rating
R18 - 20th/23
R19 - 19th/23
R20 - 22th/23

Ranking
R18 - 20th/23
R19 - 22nd/23
R20 - 22nd/23

Tackles
R18 - 12th/23
R19 - 17th/23
R20 - 11th/23

Pressure Points
R18 - 9th/23
R19 - 22nd/23
R20 - 10th/23

This is the time of the year we need our best 23 and I just don't see it with VDM at the moment.

Yep. Repeat sprints my arse.

 

[glenashley]

Naughts a game high 10 score involvements. Sure he was a bit rusty at times but he was effective.

Also, pressure acts

Cody 23
Naughts 15
Marra 14
Westy 15
VDM 15
McSteal 14

A very industrious and even effort. It's a good combo

Genuine question, not being smart, but does VDM get a pressure act stat for that awful tackle attempt iirc about the 3rd quarter??

 

[ScottyDogg]

Yep. Repeat sprints my arse.

Arty Jones? Can he bring the pressure?

 

[Next Waiting]

Genuine question, not being smart, but does VDM get a pressure act stat for that awful tackle attempt iirc about the 3rd quarter??

Don't know. The parameters of the stats not really my wheel house

 

[Next Waiting]

Out: Khamis
In: Freijah
Sub: Macrae

Rationale:
With Liam Jones back today we got a look at Buku Khamis as a third tall. He is competing for a spot with Coffield and Freijah (not the KPDs). He has definitely shown he can fill in very effectively for one of the KPDs if needed because he's good in the air. However what I saw today reinforced my concern about Khamis's running game. As a latecomer to footy that's the harder part to learn. He never looks fluid or a "natural" when the ball hits the deck, unlike Freijah and Coffield who I expect have played footy since they first learned to run. So as long as LJones Lobb Coffield and Freijah are fit they should play before Khamis. He'll be first back in the side if any of those four are injured though.

I thought hard about Vandermeer. I think both Oliver G and 3NP make valid points on different sides of the debate. The best option to replace him might be Oskar Baker who is almost as fast but his production is not so much better than VDMs that it tips the scales in his favour. We've been a while teaching VDM his role and he's probably got it nearly figured out now, even if he has some poorer days. I'm not sure Baker could step easily into the defensive and support running role that VDM does. That said, I wouldn't be melting if they made that change.

Lachie McNeil is a player that most of us had high on our De-List List through this season but he too has been growing into his allocated role in the seniors. I've been noticing the little things he does in recent weeks and today he got some decent reward with two goals (although I laughed when he was running into the open goal for his first, saw Bont and then was in two minds whether he was meant to handball it to him!) Of the three players McNeil, VDM and Baker it's McNeil who executes most tackles per game. He made another 4 today (VDM only 1). He has been an "almost" player for several weeks and I think as he becomes more confident in his place in the 22 things will start to click. He has obviously been working hard on what he has been asked to do. So he stays.

The sub: The really clear direction of this side in 2024 - possibly pushed by the new coaching staff - is the need for pace, fast clean hands and rapid ball movement. We know Bevo went that way in 2015 and 2016 but for some reason we had drifted toward slower and less agile players with so-so diposal. Maybe it's just because many of the supposedly better players on our list were like that. So I'm not seeing a big role in the future for the likes of Jackson Macrae, Luke Cleary, Caleb Daniel or Ryan Gardner. It's also part of my concern about Khamis. I'm even a bit worried about this aspect of Ryley Sanders game too, to be honest. James Harmes is quick enough but I think he needs a solid run in the VFL if he's recovered from injury. So the sub could be any one of Macrae, Daniel or Sanders but I think Macrae's strength and experience could be vital if the game is close.

The issue I see with Baker for VDM is that Baker is a natural left footer and VDM right. I'm reasonably confident that VDM's primary role is being the fast play on option in that space between wing and half forward on the right flank and going I50 to marking targets. That and pressure.

Baker might get himself in a tangle on the side.

 

[Dogs Rule]

In Freijah Out VDM.

Crush these jokers. No mercy. I want revenge for the past three years dammit! Foot down from start to finish. Don't give them an inch.

 

[BEaston]

I'm also critical of Vandermeer at times, but people say this every week and never point out the fact that basically nobody else can play the role that he does.

Cue the "repeat sprints" meme but it fundamentally is true - he understands where he needs to position himself on the outside and run hard.

If we were going to drop him, it would have been in the early stages of the season when he was playing some genuinely poor games even accepting his role, but we backed him in then and we're not dropping him on the basis of better form over the last 10-12 weeks than the first 6-8 he played in the season.

It's his job to position himself in the wide open expanses, run hard, and take the obvious, deep option to our 3 talls when kicking long. He's doing that. Other players might pressure and win the ball more, but I'm not sure they'll manipulate space or run hard in the same way. It's fine.

Sanders and Macrae were both out of the team but I haven't seen them once get separation on a player tracking them when both players are sprinting full pelt. Both might work their way into the team this season, but it won't be at the expense of Vandermeer.

I think people acknowledge he does all that, but still doesn't really have any effect on the game

 

[doggie dog]

The dee's have had the wood on us for ages,No changes for me unless someone is carrying a decent niggle.
That team on the weekend is the team we ride into the finals.

Maybe rest some players who are older or have been carrying a heavy workload this year for the norf game (Duryea,Jonsey, Coffield, bont, libba)

 

[doggie dog]

The pressure was excellent across the ground. It just struck me how even the contribution was amongst the forwards including the talls.

Fantastic pressure acts from Garcia and Westy, credit to both of them for working hard in the VFL and being that tough nut we need.

 

[ScottyDogg]

Thoughts on Coffield’s game?

I was very very surprised that Bevo singled him out for praise in the presser. Thought he was our one weak link on the day.

 

[ScottyDogg]

I think people acknowledge he does all that, but still doesn't really have any effect on the game

I’m starting to believe. His role is basically to force rushed disposals and long down the line kicks as the opposition is exiting and can’t find an exit. Not neccessarily through pressure acts but by covering space defensively.

With that said, he wouldn’t want to feel very secure. It’s a very limited role that you think that any fast endurance player could do. Don’t see why Arty couldn’t do it.

 

[MaxiBont]

Thoughts on Coffield’s game?

I was very very surprised that Bevo singled him out for praise in the presser. Thought he was our one weak link on the day.

I thought he was solid.

He’s not a player that is going to wow, but does all the little things right and rarely gets beat.

 

[Foxman98]

Thoughts on Coffield’s game?

I was very very surprised that Bevo singled him out for praise in the presser. Thought he was our one weak link on the day.

Was fantastic defensively hardly got beaten in a 1 on 1

 

[stefoid]

Melbourne will be desperate to keep season alive and Gawn, May Lever will make life hard for our forwards.

Thats the test isnt it? Most of our games end up being a glorified game of kick to kick with lever and may - then letting the demons whisk the ball away and land it on the chest of fritsch or sideshow bob who kicks 7 goals between them.

We had to beat geelong this year and we have to beat melbourne and may, lever and fritsch have to have dirty days.

I wonder if they will drag in sideshow bob just for us?

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

Macrae, Freija

CD, Khamis

Don’t think we need that height with three talks down back this week.

 

[Unorth]

Thoughts on Coffield’s game?

I was very very surprised that Bevo singled him out for praise in the presser. Thought he was our one weak link on the day.

He’s fine but any time he goes to ground theres concern.



If you look at his TOG%, particularly for a defender, it’s not great. Not sure about him physically seeing out a finals series. Yes he was subbed out yesterday but that was also preservation.

We may be trying to ramp him up to get him going more pre-finals but you can see the worry any time he hits the deck.

I don’t mind his game defensively, he’s solid, just not sure about him and Buku together. But we also don’t have many alternatives. Freijah probably would be the one.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I think people acknowledge he does all that, but still doesn't really have any effect on the game

The criticism comes surely from the list management team rather than Vandermeer himself. It can be both true that we have nobody else to play the position and Vandermeer is barely holding on then. But we still have to have someone play the role.

 

[Mofra]

If you look at his TOG%, particularly for a defender, it’s not great. Not sure about him physically seeing out a finals series. Yes he was subbed out yesterday but that was also preservation.

It has to be a concern. It's the reason Buks wasn't getting regular gametime in years past, as we need our defenders to spend a lot of time on ground. Rory Lobb has an incredible tank for a big man and would be in the 90% range regularly as a forward. IIRC he was at 100% TOG against Geelong too.

Right now I have Buks ahead of Coff and I'm not sure we can continue to play both, especially against teams with strong small forward stocks. I'd have Freijah ahead of Coff

 

[BEaston]

The criticism comes surely from the list management team rather than Vandermeer himself. It can be both true that we have nobody else to play the position and Vandermeer is barely holding on then. But we still have to have someone play the role.

Definitely not VDM himself, he cracks in harder than anyone.

 

[stefoid]

VDM is like the current version of Hannan. Doesnt get the ball that much and when he does he flubs it half the time.

So it has to be the off ball stuff, which is essentially running to the right places at the right time? Surely that is the easiest thing to get any player to do that can cover the ground?

But apparently not

 

[House_of_Dahl]

No changes unless forced for me (maybe sub).

I thought Vanders was fine. There is a reason Vanders and McNeil are getting picked - they are hard at it, work hard, fast, shut down space and apply a shit tonne of pressure. Very important attributes to the way we are playing.

 

[stefoid]

Not sure about Sanders this year. Performing very well for a 1st year, but is he up to finals intensity? And when he wins the ball, he is pretty much just giving it to the first rwb jumper he sees.

Might be best for everyone if he goes back to the VFL and has a good run in their final series and comes back next year hot to trot.

 

[Unorth]

The criticism comes surely from the list management team rather than Vandermeer himself. It can be both true that we have nobody else to play the position and Vandermeer is barely holding on then. But we still have to have someone play the role.

There were a couple of attempts, probably O’Driscoll was the one in mind for VDM, and Clark they would have hoped would be in McNeils spot by now. AJ also. Various reasons obviously there’s been no payoff from those three.

Glad VDM finally nailed that handball over the top and McNeil didn’t spray an attempt running into goal though. They’re still in our bottom 2 or 3 at this point but not as bad as they were previously. Which shows how far we’ve come in those ‘bottom 6’ discussions of the last couple of years - our weakest links are not so weak any more.

We don’t have a whole lot of choice for this season, just have to keep looking. VDM, McNeil and (insert whichever of Poulter/Scott/Baker we roll with for a few weeks before trying the next) are where we should be looking at improving in 2025…they will have to do for now.

 

[JohnnySteel]

Not sure about Sanders this year. Performing very well for a 1st year, but is he up to finals intensity? And when he wins the ball, he is pretty much just giving it to the first rwb jumper he sees.

Might be best for everyone if he goes back to the VFL and has a good run in their final series and comes back next year hot to trot.

I think Harmes takes his spot when he is fit playing that half forward / rotating mid role. Averaged 0.9 goals in the games he played this year and he only just started to build some nice form before injury.
If we can get another player kicking a goal a game that will be very valuable.
He also has that toughness and can play a shutdown role if needed.

Harmes and JJ are the two I’d like to see back if we make finals.

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[stefoid]

I think Harmes takes his spot when he is fit playing that half forward / rotating mid role. Averaged 0.9 goals in the games he played this year and he only just started to build some nice form before injury.
If we can get another player kicking a goal a game that will be very valuable.
He also has that toughness and can play a shutdown role if needed.

Harmes and JJ are the two I’d like to see back if we make finals.

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

yeah maybe, but its the current 22's spots to lose. Harmes and JJ are going to have to be BOG in the VFL to shake someone out at the moment. Brambles form over the last 3-5 weeks is as good as anything JJ has produced. Possibly better in traffic, but JJ the better kick. Still, injuries happen and they are decent backups.