Prediction Round 22: Changes Vs West Coast Eagles + prematch discussion

[Snuffaluphagus]

 

[FreoRicci]

Amiss is still bloody 19 with Treacy turning 21. Depth is so key for their development.

The structure, IMO v Geelong and
Melbourne is about perfect as it was.
Jackson as the tall up forward creates chaos, whilst rucking with Darcy. I don’t agree with Jackson is best suited for full time ruck. His potential is wasted there.

Banfield amongst that mix really got the forward line humming, feel for him. Was forced into a completely role with Fyfe in the mix v Richmond and GWS.

That’s why Tabs coming in would get it close to that mix. Having Jackson with Amiss took the best defender and allowed the both to maximise their potential. Tabs can do that for the rest of the year and believe Amiss will kick bags.

The off season have to find a back up
Ruck or fast track Reidy. Treacy being second ruck is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Steinfreo]

Feels like I've gone back 4 years with all the defending of tabs I've got to do now

takes me back

You were wrong then and wrong now.

 

[Taylor]

Amiss is still bloody 19 with Treacy turning 21.

Jye turned 20 just over a week ago, Josh turned 21 less than a week ago.

They are about a year and five days difference between them. So young.

 

[freo_leo29]

You were wrong then and wrong now.

History has proven me right and the future will prove me right again

 

[Taylor]

Matthew Taberner

20

Matthew Taberner

Age

31

Ht

198cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.3

5star

D

9.9

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

2.3

2star

M

6.1

5star

T

0.4

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

13.0

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.8

4star

works better in a forward line that is built around him and his aggression at the ball, because he is the big tough key forward who will kick the goals to win the game, get out of the way.

Josh Treacy is a different footballer. Both put in a mountain of work for their team mates and both will direct traffic in THEIR forward line - but Josh will not yet seize the spotlight moment where he can see a team mate in position to have their own moment.

I think Tabs doesn't trust others to seize the moment, backs himself to be the best choice for that moment. I think Josh is younger and doesn't yet impose himself on the moment, resulting in a more team based win.

Tabs will clunk more marks, but he didn't when he was Josh's age.

 

[Mags98]

Matthew Taberner works better in a forward line that is built around him and his aggression at the ball, because he is the big tough key forward who will kick the goals to win the game, get out of the way.

Josh Treacy is a different footballer. Both put in a mountain of work for their team mates and both will direct traffic in THEIR forward line - but Josh will not yet seize the spotlight moment where he can see a team mate in position to have their own moment.

I think Tabs doesn't trust others to seize the moment, backs himself to be the best choice for that moment. I think Josh is younger and doesn't yet impose himself on the moment, resulting in a more team based win.

Tabs will clunk more marks, but he didn't when he was Josh's age.

well thats probably true regarding tabs but id say he was somewhat forced into that mentality with the quality we had around him up there. id expect tabs to be professional enough to change it up a bit with the emergence of these young guys

 

[freo_leo29]

Gotta laugh at the scapegoating of taberner too

All of a sudden he's the dumbest footballer ever just because he's a bit quirky

We are ranked 14th in attack (points scored), people are acting like amiss and Treacy have been an unstoppable duo.

I don't understand where this understanding that taberner is going to ruin the chemistry has come from? It's not like we have turned the corner this year and become an attacking powerhouse without him


Perennial whipping boy

 

[apuchar]

Gotta laugh at the scapegoating of taberner too

All of a sudden he's the dumbest footballer ever just because he's a bit quirky

We are ranked 14th in attack (points scored), people are acting like amiss and Treacy have been an unstoppable duo.

I don't understand where this understanding that taberner is going to ruin the chemistry has come from? It's not like we have turned the corner this year and become an attacking powerhouse without him


Perennial whipping boy

We are 15th and they don't think we need to improve the team.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Gotta laugh at the scapegoating of taberner too

All of a sudden he's the dumbest footballer ever just because he's a bit quirky

We are ranked 14th in attack (points scored), people are acting like amiss and Treacy have been an unstoppable duo.

I don't understand where this understanding that taberner is going to ruin the chemistry has come from? It's not like we have turned the corner this year and become an attacking powerhouse without him


Perennial whipping boy

Taberner has always been talked about as not the brightest footballer, long before it was established he was uber quirky. There's a reason there's memes about his leading to the pocket. I'll bet Amiss is going to pass his most kicked goals in a season in his first full season of football. He's a handy but limited footballer who shouldnt be prioritised over the players of the future who are going to be around to take us places.

Regardless of the year we've had, the forwardline is working so much better together. The key forwards in particular seem to be working to make space and help each other which is a far cry of the days of Lobb and Tabs where both go up for the same ball or we have no one leading at the ball carrier. For the first time in forever, the criticism on here is as much about the backline and midfield as it is the forwardline

Tabs isnt some elite KPF that has dominated over the history and being scapegoated, he averages like 1.5 goals a game. I dont see how taking important games off Treacy and Amiss playing together is worth it. If the committee think Treacy, Amiss and Tabs can work, I'm all for seeing how it looks but I think it's head in the sand type stuff to think there cant be any concern that might not work. It works with Jackson instead because he's absurdly mobile and can pressure as well as a medium tall

We are 15th and they don't think we need to improve the team.

Find me someone who doesnt think we need to improve the team

 

[GingerDocker]

Taberner has always been talked about as not the brightest footballer, long before it was established he was uber quirky. There's a reason there's memes about his leading to the pocket. I'll bet Amiss is going to pass his most kicked goals in a season in his first full season of football. He's a handy but limited footballer who shouldnt be prioritised over the players of the future who are going to be around to take us places.

Regardless of the year we've had, the forwardline is working so much better together. The key forwards in particular seem to be working to make space and help each other which is a far cry of the days of Lobb and Tabs where both go up for the same ball or we have no one leading at the ball carrier. For the first time in forever, the criticism on here is as much about the backline and midfield as it is the forwardline

Tabs isnt some elite KPF that has dominated over the history and being scapegoated, he averages like 1.5 goals a game. I dont see how taking important games off Treacy and Amiss playing together is worth it. If the committee think Treacy, Amiss and Tabs can work, I'm all for seeing how it looks but I think it's head in the sand type stuff to think there cant be any concern that might not work. It works with Jackson instead because he's absurdly mobile and can pressure as well as a medium tall

Find me someone who doesnt think we need to improve the team

 

[Taylor]

After Tabs kicked 7 against Essendon

 

[sherrif]

Gotta laugh at the scapegoating of taberner too

All of a sudden he's the dumbest footballer ever just because he's a bit quirky

We are ranked 14th in attack (points scored), people are acting like amiss and Treacy have been an unstoppable duo.

I don't understand where this understanding that taberner is going to ruin the chemistry has come from? It's not like we have turned the corner this year and become an attacking powerhouse without him


Perennial whipping boy

Yep I agree completely with what you are saying. I'll always see Tabs the polar opposite to many here in that as a result of watching him train over the years I see him as someone who has done everything to get the most out of abilities and I'll admire that rather than continually pointing out his limitations all the time. We've had so many players with more ability who have done the opposite and not gotten the best out of themselves.

I can't see how Amiss and Treacy wouldn't benefit from Tabs coming into the team this week. Its likely McGovern would be matched up on Tabs if he came in fr starters and also It means Amiss won't spend time as the only tall forward when Treacy is rucking and Jackson is on the bench too.

 

[Docker82]

We are 15th and they don't think we need to improve the team.

As much as we probably need to improve the forward line I’d like to see where we rank for points scored by designated forwards.

If you include Jackson as a forward when Darcy is playing we haven’t even averaged two goals a game from the midfield and HBFs (tbh I’m pretty sure it’s barely over one on average). That simply isn’t good enough. In fact it’s quite pathetic compared to most of the league.

Let’s say need four extra goals on average - at least two of those probably have to come from the midfield.

And all of the above is with Brayshaw sitting on 10 goals by himself.

 

[apuchar]

Taberner has always been talked about as not the brightest footballer, long before it was established he was uber quirky. There's a reason there's memes about his leading to the pocket. I'll bet Amiss is going to pass his most kicked goals in a season in his first full season of football. He's a handy but limited footballer who shouldnt be prioritised over the players of the future who are going to be around to take us places.

Regardless of the year we've had, the forwardline is working so much better together. The key forwards in particular seem to be working to make space and help each other which is a far cry of the days of Lobb and Tabs where both go up for the same ball or we have no one leading at the ball carrier. For the first time in forever, the criticism on here is as much about the backline and midfield as it is the forwardline

Tabs isnt some elite KPF that has dominated over the history and being scapegoated, he averages like 1.5 goals a game. I dont see how taking important games off Treacy and Amiss playing together is worth it. If the committee think Treacy, Amiss and Tabs can work, I'm all for seeing how it looks but I think it's head in the sand type stuff to think there cant be any concern that might not work. It works with Jackson instead because he's absurdly mobile and can pressure as well as a medium tall

Find me someone who doesnt think we need to improve the team

More not wanting to improve it with Taberner. That would probably be an immediate improvement in contested marking and goal kicking capacity. Not to mention a big body that will take the best defender and help Amiss. You could argue Jackson could do that in the future, but he can play anywhere.so we could improve two areas at once.

 

[apuchar]

As much as we probably need to improve the forward line I’d like to see where we rank for points scored by designated forwards.

If you include Jackson as a forward when Darcy is playing we haven’t even averaged two goals a game from the midfield and HBFs (tbh I’m pretty sure it’s barely over one on average). That simply isn’t good enough. In fact it’s quite pathetic compared to most of the league.

Let’s say need four extra goals on average - at least two of those probably have to come from the midfield.

And all of the above is with Brayshaw sitting on 10 goals by himself.

And that has a lot to do with Brayshaw playing half forward sometimes. And pretty well imho.

It's one of the things I like about Nod and maybe Stanley. Both are potential goal kickers

 

[gungho]

Gotta laugh at the scapegoating of taberner too

All of a sudden he's the dumbest footballer ever just because he's a bit quirky

We are ranked 14th in attack (points scored), people are acting like amiss and Treacy have been an unstoppable duo.

I don't understand where this understanding that taberner is going to ruin the chemistry has come from? It's not like we have turned the corner this year and become an attacking powerhouse without him


Perennial whipping boy

He's not a dumb footballer because he's quirky. He's a dumb footballer because he:

• regularly leads his defender into the path of a Freo forward who is leading.
• regularly leads to the boundary line (often to the side that does not advantage a left footer).
• regalarly goes for the mark, only to spoil our forward already contesting the mark. (Good forwards will block for other forwards).
• Rarely leads towards the ball carrier (Reckon Amiss, in his short career, has done this more than Tabs)
• sometimes makes cat 10 blunders. Like playing on to get smothered on the goal line.

 

[apuchar]

He's not a dumb footballer because he's quirky. He's a dumb footballer because he:

• regularly leads his defender into the path of a Freo forward who is leading.
• regularly leads to the boundary line (often to the side that does not advantage a left footer).
• regalarly goes for the mark, only to spoil our forward already contesting the mark. (Good forwards will block for other forwards).
• Rarely leads towards the ball carrier (Reckon Amiss, in his short career, has done this more than Tabs)
• sometimes makes cat 10 blunders. Like playing on to get smothered on the goal line.

That's something he can work on with the team, now that we are actually bothering to try and put a forward structure together. If we develop a structure with the three of them in there and he still does it, then I'll be happy to give him the flick. Besides we have a team full of so-called "dumb footballers". Why just single out Taberner who is one of our few regular goal kickers?

 

[gungho]

That's something he can work on with the team, now that we are actually bothering to try and put a forward structure together. If we develop a structure with the three of them in there and he still does it, then I'll be happy to give him the flick. Besides we have a team full of so-called "dumb footballers". Why just single out Taberner who is one of our few regular goal kickers?

Yeah, good point. Maybe Tabs will work it all out in more of a supporting role. It's probably worth giving him a shot to see if he can play more team-oriented football. With finals out of the equation, there is nothing to lose. I still do reckon he has to be told fairly sternly that he is 3rd banana behind Amiss and Treacy, and he (and his defender) should not be anywhere near their leading patterns.

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

Gotta laugh at the scapegoating of taberner too

All of a sudden he's the dumbest footballer ever just because he's a bit quirky

We are ranked 14th in attack (points scored), people are acting like amiss and Treacy have been an unstoppable duo.

I don't understand where this understanding that taberner is going to ruin the chemistry has come from? It's not like we have turned the corner this year and become an attacking powerhouse without him


Perennial whipping boy

But it's also not like we were good with him: he accentuated the weaknesses of an already bad forward line. Efficiency i50 has shot up without Tabs vs with him, scores per game are around the same but that's not accounting for the fact that 2 of Tabs' 4 AFL games this season were against non-AFL teams, whereas Treacy and Amiss combo basically skipped our easy run of games early in the season. It's also easier to trust that our younger talls will get better through natural progression.

There were old-school criticisms of Tabs that were valid (has never been a good field kick and footy IQ can be questioned) but ignored that he still had enough about his game to make him a good player (very good contested marker, terrific athlete, found a niche in the leads to the pockets, etc). But applying what we know about Taberner in 2019 and 2020 to 2023 is misleading: the contested mark and marks inside 50 numbers have gone down, doesn't go up the ground nearly as much, pressure numbers have plummeted. To me, with a guy like Tabs whose game relied a ton on his athleticism (anyone who doesn't believe in his athleticism, see the 2018 grand final sprint: bursts out the blocks before realising it's not a 20m sprint), the injuries have caught up to him.

Though to be clear I'm not yet on board with the Triple J hype: there's something in this young forward line, but it's still got a ways to go to be a success (if it will be). Also, I think Jackson is at his best as a 70% ruckman: Fort matchup was a statpad, but his follow up work and ability to influence the game on all lines as a ruckman to me outweighs what he can be as a forward who gets like 20% ruck time (which is often what happens with Darcy in the team). If Darcy does leave, my ideal is we find a destination for Tabs and make a move for (another non-favourite in these parts) Naughton.

 

[SHill Shall]

I'm just looking forward to a game where Amiss and Treacy can come out and absolutely dominate; defying their 20 and 21 y.o. ages!

Go boys - Amiss to notch up 5 for the first time with Treacy getting 3.

 

[apuchar]

But it's also not like we were good with him: he accentuated the weaknesses of an already bad forward line. Efficiency i50 has shot up without Tabs vs with him, scores per game are around the same but that's not accounting for the fact that 2 of Tabs' 4 AFL games this season were against non-AFL teams, whereas Treacy and Amiss combo basically skipped our easy run of games early in the season. It's also easier to trust that our younger talls will get better through natural progression.

There were old-school criticisms of Tabs that were valid (has never been a good field kick and footy IQ can be questioned) but ignored that he still had enough about his game to make him a good player (very good contested marker, terrific athlete, found a niche in the leads to the pockets, etc). But applying what we know about Taberner in 2019 and 2020 to 2023 is misleading: the contested mark and marks inside 50 numbers have gone down, doesn't go up the ground nearly as much, pressure numbers have plummeted. To me, with a guy like Tabs whose game relied a ton on his athleticism (anyone who doesn't believe in his athleticism, see the 2018 grand final sprint: bursts out the blocks before realising it's not a 20m sprint), the injuries have caught up to him.

Though to be clear I'm not yet on board with the Triple J hype: there's something in this young forward line, but it's still got a ways to go to be a success (if it will be). Also, I think Jackson is at his best as a 70% ruckman: Fort matchup was a statpad, but his follow up work and ability to influence the game on all lines as a ruckman to me outweighs what he can be as a forward who gets like 20% ruck time (which is often what happens with Darcy in the team). If Darcy does leave, my ideal is we find a destination for Tabs and make a move for (another non-favourite in these parts) Naughton.

Of course it is a different discussion if we bring someone like Naughton in.

 

[mattis117]

Gotta laugh at the scapegoating of taberner too

All of a sudden he's the dumbest footballer ever just because he's a bit quirky

We are ranked 14th in attack (points scored), people are acting like amiss and Treacy have been an unstoppable duo.

I don't understand where this understanding that taberner is going to ruin the chemistry has come from? It's not like we have turned the corner this year and become an attacking powerhouse without him


Perennial whipping boy

That's rubbish, I thought tabs had a low footy IQ from day dot, it's not a new thing.

 

[mattis117]

Yep I agree completely with what you are saying. I'll always see Tabs the polar opposite to many here in that as a result of watching him train over the years I see him as someone who has done everything to get the most out of abilities and I'll admire that rather than continually pointing out his limitations all the time. We've had so many players with more ability who have done the opposite and not gotten the best out of themselves.

I can't see how Amiss and Treacy wouldn't benefit from Tabs coming into the team this week. Its likely McGovern would be matched up on Tabs if he came in fr starters and also It means Amiss won't spend time as the only tall forward when Treacy is rucking and Jackson is on the bench too.

All of this can be simultaneously true. He is a hard worker and not the smartest.

 

[SiempreFreo]

Ta

well thats probably true regarding tabs but id say he was somewhat forced into that mentality with the quality we had around him up there. id expect tabs to be professional enough to change it up a bit with the emergence of these young guys

Tabs has given the best service he can to our club. But I recall last year when Logue was the other tall, he & Tabs & their opponents were all bunched together - comical in a way

 

[gungho]

One of the few bright lights in this dreadful season has been regular games to Treacy and Amiss. We can, at the very least, see a possibility for an attacking and functioning forward line - something that has not happened for the best part of 10 years. We have to prioritize those guys over Tabs at this stage.