Autopsy Round 7, 2023: St.Kilda v Port Adelaide *WOOD 100TH*

[gringo2011]

If we could choose a GC player to poach I'd have Touk Miller or Noah Anderson miles ahead of Bing tbh

Anderson is going to be an absolute star if he's not already. Touk is excellent too.

 

[gubby88]

Anderson is going to be an absolute star if he's not already. Touk is excellent too.

Fiorini looking good as well, finally in the guts

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Yawkey way]

Nah easy, we actually park in the old DFO thing on Spencer in wet weather. $20 for event parking. In good weather we park down on the corner of Spencer and flinders street and that's $11 or something. Cheaper than fares. The DFO one you walk straight out onto the overpass to the stadium, 2 minutes walk to get inside.

Stadium parking is pretty bloody easy as well, especially as I’m not the one driving. My daughter said her crew found it difficult getting out and onto the light rail so walked down to finders street station and caught the tram down st Kilda road. That would annoy the hell out of me especially with a game going that late, the fixture really matters to crowd numbers.

 

[StFly]

How are we feeling as of the Sunday?

I was pissed on Friday night but I'm cooling to the idea that we've only lost 2 games by 13 points combined vs Top 4 contenders and were in positions to win both games with several key players missing.

I view it like, we had all means to win that match, primarily we should have won that match with what we produced around the ground, and I am just overly disappointed in two things with that match;

1. It was v Port, if there's one club in the past decade that just sticks the knife in and twists it's them on many chances we have to enshrine something in footy. We can be cruising and they'll just body us and make us look like kids playing with adults.
2. We reverted back to Richo days and our F50 was hot garbage.

Pies loss I'll take, that was 2 sides going hard at it and sure skills weren't 100% it was both sides just going hammer and tongs, this match, this match was say us controlling 3/4, them capitalising on 15mins and job done for them for being cleaner I50. But it's a loss we didn't need to have and someone needs to tear Port apart cause I'm over it.

The players we're missing just drives home that we really should have shat it in and just made it easier. They had a guy on one leg hobbling around a guy that got subbed off at 1/4 time through injury, due respect to Port, but they pinched it.

 

[The Boar]

How are we feeling as of the Sunday?

I was pissed on Friday night but I'm cooling to the idea that we've only lost 2 games by 13 points combined vs Top 4 contenders and were in positions to win both games with several key players missing.

Watching it- we were off all night.
Kicks and handballs that just missed targets.
Shots that just missed goals.
Lapses in concentration when in the zone.
Everytime we scored, we let them respond.
Let them get a 5 goal run answered.

About 20% off across the board and still lose by bugger all.

It was frustrating but Ross will have had a good audit and plenty will have been found wanting.

So where to now?
Huge belting of NM will get us going in the right direction. Don't underestimate them by any means but we need to break them for a 10+ goal win and nothing less.

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

Watching it- we were off all night.
Kicks and handballs that just missed targets.
Shots that just missed goals.
Lapses in concentration when in the zone.
Everytime we scored, we let them respond.
Let them get a 5 goal run answered.

About 20% off across the board and still lose by bugger all.

It was frustrating but Ross will have had a good audit and plenty will have been found wanting.

So where to now?
Huge belting of NM will get us going in the right direction. Don't underestimate them by any means but we need to break them for a 10+ goal win and nothing less.

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

We weren't as disciplined as past weeks. We just didn't grid the ground up like we have been. We were probably only 5% off even but that small amount of taking our foot off was enough to get rolled. It was definitely a reverted game style and very Ratts last year. There was no supporting their team mates of sacrifice for the team either. King probably would have managed to help get us a win but it's a good reminder that it's not time to get lazy. They were winning based on effort.

 

[Ads734]

We’ve lost two games to two top 4 teams by an average of 7 points. The system holds up. Do we need to be scoring more, yes. Defensively we made about 4 crucial errors. Reality our system stacks up. Our guys did not drink their own bath water. We just dropped a game. Frustrating that it was home against Port but so be it.

 

[stfan]

We’ve lost two games to two top 4 teams by an average of 7 points. The system holds up. Do we need to be scoring more, yes. Defensively we made about 4 crucial errors. Reality our system stacks up. Our guys did not drink their own bath water. We just dropped a game. Frustrating that it was home against Port but so be it.

Our defensive system was still pretty good.

Our offensive system went by the wayside.

Overall our biggest sin, was that our disposal skills by hand and foot were very poor. I watched some the Cats game today, their players were just so clean with the ball. Whereas we just wasted it.

And yes our guys were mentally a bit off. Battle and wilkie both had some brain Fades. And whether that free kick was there or not against Battle, Battle was simply too close to to the man of the mark in the first place. If he had not bee so close then, he would still have had time to kick the ball properly.


How much was the 5 days break, an how much was the players perhaps just getting a bit cocky and mentally relaxing who knows. But the team as a whole were off their game a bit. Even Mr Smooth Sinclair made some bad decisions early on.


Port like the Pies, applied a lot of pressure. I hope our coaches and players learnt from it.


Structurally though we lacked:

• True Key Marking Forwards (Caminiti back after North, and King hopefully with a month)
• A true gun mid (Doubtful this gets fixed this year )
• Good tapwork (Marshall is a very good follower, but teams that have an exceptional starting mid, or mids, hurt us).

 

[Saintbloke]

Our defensive system was still pretty good.

Our offensive system went by the wayside.

Overall our biggest sin, was that our disposal skills by hand and foot were very poor. I watched some the Cats game today, their players were just so clean with the ball. Whereas we just wasted it.

And yes our guys were mentally a bit off. Battle and wilkie both had some brain Fades. And whether that free kick was there or not against Battle, Battle was simply too close to to the man of the mark in the first place. If he had not bee so close then, he would still have had time to kick the ball properly.


How much was the 5 days break, an how much was the players perhaps just kecking a bit cocky and mentally relaxing who knows. But the team as a whole were off their game a bit. Even Mr Smooth Sinclair made some bad decisions early on.


Port like the Pies, applied a lot of pressure. I hope our coaches and players learnt from it.


Structurally though we lacked:

• True Key Marking Forwards (Caminiti back after North, and King hopefully with a month)
• A true gun mid (Doubtful this gets fixed this year )
• Good tapwork (Marshall is a very good follower, but teams that have an exceptional starting mid, or mids, hurt us).

Good summary, and I think the fact that PA had JHF killing it in clearances was a big difference, and maybe we missed Camaniti more than we thought.

 

[moirae42]

I'm still pissed off with this loss.

We let four points slip off our own boot with the entries for the entire second half.

Mainly, when at the game on Friday I thought that we would clear that up at the break. But we didn't. If anything we got worse.

And what the hell is going on with Higgins not getting free kicks for high tackles....

 

[snails13]

Just my few cents worth....
Lyon has changed us from an easy beat team to a hard to beat team. However it's primarily through system not through some magical transformation of our playing list. It's easy to get seduced by being on top of the ladder that we now somehow have a whole bunch of A graders. That's not the case.

The great improvement in Owens and Wood and astute recruiting of Pou and Caminiti has been offset by our significant injury list thus far. The improved performance to date is essentially though a total buy-in to team defence and quick ball movement.

Clearly the better teams will work out how to get through our defensive setup and throw the challenge back on us to respond. That's going to be the real challenge ahead to see if we have a Plan B if that eventuates.

If we don't then our list deficiencies will again be highlighted as they have to a small degree against the Pies and Port. Both of those teams moved the ball more efficiently than we did and got the result for it.

The good side to it all is that not all teams will work us out or be capable of overcoming our style even if they do. I'm optimistic that should translate into us winning at least half of our games from here on in.

Wasn't the recruitment of Ross Lyon for at least the next four seasons based on sorting out the good and the bad in various positions .
This year was supposed to be a transition year to do the above.
We have exceeded expectations to date,but there will still be major changes in personnel to make us even better
All of us on here didn't expect the start we've had this year ,so that's a bonus in my view .Our long term injury situation may be a blessing in disguise to help sort out playing list into the future,maybe with some surprises in store.
I am confident that our recruitment and coaching staff will get it right going forward and we can be a force.

 

[The Punter]

The fumbling and disposals IMO was related to fatigue. Also, Port Adelaide were the first team we have played against this season to successfully implement the "drop the ball as soon as tackled" strategy that has worked so well against us for many years. I re-state: a tackle where the ball comes loose is an ineffective tackle that would have been better if not laid.

Booing worked, didn't it?

I would bring back Max this week. Don't wait.

I can see why Lyon prefers Webster to Paton.

 

[moirae42]

Yeah i would bring Max back this week if he's 90% good to go.

 

[Nutsngum]

The fumbling and disposals IMO was related to fatigue. Also, Port Adelaide were the first team we have played against this season to successfully implement the "drop the ball as soon as tackled" strategy that has worked so well against us for many years. I re-state: a tackle where the ball comes loose is an ineffective tackled that would have been better if not laid.

Booing worked, didn't it?

I would bring back Max this week. Don't wait.

I can see why Lyon prefers Webster to Paton.

Im getting really sick of the "knocked loose in the tackle" gargbage. If they take posession and just drop the ball that should be improper disposal every time. If you dont have prior, just hold onto the ball and you wont be pinged.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

We weren't as disciplined as past weeks. We just didn't grid the ground up like we have been. We were probably only 5% off even but that small amount of taking our foot off was enough to get rolled. It was definitely a reverted game style and very Ratts last year. There was no supporting their team mates of sacrifice for the team either. King probably would have managed to help get us a win but it's a good reminder that it's not time to get lazy. They were winning based on effort.

One of the main things that stood out for me was how we left Port players wide open in the corridor a number of times.

They were just lapses of concentration by individuals but it was the first time we'd seen that this season.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

The fumbling and disposals IMO was related to fatigue. Also, Port Adelaide were the first team we have played against this season to successfully implement the "drop the ball as soon as tackled" strategy that has worked so well against us for many years. I re-state: a tackle where the ball comes loose is an ineffective tackled that would have been better if not laid.

Booing worked, didn't it?

I would bring back Max this week. Don't wait.

I can see why Lyon prefers Webster to Paton.

Paton was caught between helping out the talls & covering Rioli way too often.

A bit of work for Boris to do this week.

 

[bergholt]

Im getting really sick of the "knocked loose in the tackle" gargbage. If they take posession and just drop the ball that should be improper disposal every time. If you dont have prior, just hold onto the ball and you wont be pinged.

Agree, dropping the ball (incorrect disposal) is something that isn't paid anywhere near enough.

But also imo the clear positive change to the rules is to get rid of prior opportunity as a concept. If you choose to take possession of the ball and you're tackled then you have to get a clear disposal within a few seconds - if not then it's a free kick. Makes the game much easier to umpire and clearer for everyone to know what the deal is.

I know the objection is "but then there's no incentive for players to take possession". I doubt it. We already see lots of nice knock-ons and scrambles, it's attractive footy imo.

 

[sammm]

One of my concerns with Ross is bull headedness. 5 day break with no replacements? Why not try someone else? Campbell? Sharman? Bring Bytel in for a full game?

Too much belief in the playing group?
Isn't the no change Similar to the down grand final?

any thoughts? as i have and could not read the autoposy thread.

 

[Nutsngum]

Agree, dropping the ball (incorrect disposal) is something that isn't paid anywhere near enough.

But also imo the clear positive change to the rules is to get rid of prior opportunity as a concept. If you choose to take possession of the ball and you're tackled then you have to get a clear disposal within a few seconds - if not then it's a free kick. Makes the game much easier to umpire and clearer for everyone to know what the deal is.

I know the objection is "but then there's no incentive for players to take possession". I doubt it. We already see lots of nice knock-ons and scrambles, it's attractive footy imo.

Whilst I think that the rules need to be made specific, as in an exact time limit to dispose, if a player is spun 360 without disposing etc.. (and definitively in the rules, not just "we will pay it" wishy washy garbage) I dont know how removing prior is going to work. I think it definitely will impact players attempting to pick up the ball and I dont think "knock ons" is what we really want. Its not soccer.

 

[The Punter]

Not for nothing, but this was probably the first time in a long time that the team we put on the park was younger but had played more games than our opposition.

 

[phantom13]

Fair play to Port as well, the way to break us open is to take that really dangerous kick through the middle of the ground from D50, they did it most of the night and it paid dividends.

No question we were a little bit off (even defensively the zone didnt shift quite as quick as previous weeks).

As mentioned no true tall forward killed us, intercept marks and not being able to bring the ball to ground where we wanted it.

Having said all that, 7 point loss to a very good side who were in form without anything remotely resembling a key forward playing easily our worst game so far this year.

Its not panic stations.

 

[Nutsngum]

any thoughts? as i have and could not read the autoposy thread.

The amount of changes needed to impact how fatigued the team was would have been ridiculous. Who are you going to pull out of the midfield group in order to have 100% fitness in there? What about the forward line where we have no depth at the moment at all?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

any thoughts? as i have and could not read the autoposy thread.

Nah, I don't think that resting players would have made any difference TBH.

If JB plays instead of Scud would that have prevented the midfield being run over or allowed Port to pick off open players through the zone?

Dunno.

Steeley attending so many centre bounces when he was running at half rat power was a bigger issue for me. We looked very slow against Port's quicker mids... I personally would have got Windy into the action a quarter earlier to help combat Butters & JHF.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree, dropping the ball (incorrect disposal) is something that isn't paid anywhere near enough.

But also imo the clear positive change to the rules is to get rid of prior opportunity as a concept. If you choose to take possession of the ball and you're tackled then you have to get a clear disposal within a few seconds - if not then it's a free kick. Makes the game much easier to umpire and clearer for everyone to know what the deal is.

I know the objection is "but then there's no incentive for players to take possession". I doubt it. We already see lots of nice knock-ons and scrambles, it's attractive footy imo.

I don't care either way as long as they are consistent. There were holding the balls not paid, like I think it was JHF got tackled, broke it got tackled again and held for ages until munting out a hand pass. Play on. Then we got tackled and immediately holding the ball later that quarter. Wilkie got tackled and the ball knocked out and it was holding the ball.

 

[The Cobra]

Yeah i would bring Max back this week if he's 90% good to go.

Apologies but strongly disagree - we are going ok despite Friday’s set back.

Max has had a very serious injury & is a blue chip 10+ year asset we need to do the right thing by. Let’s not bring him back until we are 110% convinced he is strong (mentally & physically) & ready to go. If that is after the bye so be it.