Autopsy Round 7, 2024 : Hawks get pecked by Swans

[Brucie Buffer]

First, I humbly and unreservedly apologise for and retract my statement about Scrimshaw after the Gold Coast defeat. He showed today he is every bit an AFL standard player, despite one bad kick. My only defence was that I had my mate, Wolfie Blass over, and extended time with him does tend to affect my judgement. Evey player is "allowed" 1 mistaken kick.

Much has already been said about the performance today (it is still Sunday where I live - been a long day!) I would only add that there are some on our list that, despite physcial athleticism, seem not to quite have the footy smarts needed and no drilling or training will bring it on.

Scrimshaw, Meek, Frenchie, Moore, and one or two others could hold their heads up. Others not so, but with the sort of performances we are putting in, I am worried the "green shoots" syndrome, in which, like the Blues under Brendon Bolton, are talking ourselves into it being better than it is.


Yes, I get it. I have been thinking is this going to end like the reigns of messrs Schwab and Knights? I think there are differences this time, and we should be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. He may well just need some time to grow, but if the assistant and specialist coaches aren't performing, he should be holding them to account. Longmire lets his team know when they don't make it.. and so did Clarko in his time with us. Sammy needs to not single out a player, but get livid with the whole team - maybe 1/4 time was too early given the score, but it was clear by then this was going to be a tough day at the office.


Jeez, I hope as a society we are well past the colour of ones skin.

For me, it wasn't all doom and gloom... but after 6 - 8 years of a rebuild, questions have to be asked.

I did think of your comment re Scrimshaw in the last quarter, good on you for sticking your hand up.

 

[extractasam]

Can’t remember who it was but in the third Day got slammed into the deck and the whiplash slammed the back of his head into the turf. Looked awful from my angle on level 2 but it wasn’t even a free.

Did anyone get cited for the tackle?

 

[The hands of stone]

Have you seen how fast dogs play at marvel?

Hawkman is right though , bar Bont the their ball use is nowhere near the level of the Swans

 

[MrPremiership]

Forward line a hot mess.

Has been for some time. Are we going to try something new?

 

[The hands of stone]

What I saw yesterday was a top 4 side , firing all cylinders in clinical fashion beat the youngest team in the AFL .

We absolutely tried but we're outgunned in most areas . Every error , we got punished for . That's what the best sides do .
You could see the confidence drop and confusion set in and continue as the game progressed .
We then almost tried too hard, lost more position and made more errors.
It happens.

The GC loss was way worse than yesterday . This was a Heavyweight knocking out a current middleweight.

Was great to see Day back , class passage of play in that 3rd quarter .

Yesterday is the in the firmly 'learn' basket for all involved Imo.

 

[HedgeFund]

So where is the biggest blight in the game? One team operates the flood and burst game better than the other? Does king actually watch 2024 football?

This wasn’t the whole article.

The “blight” was our failure to come forward off our opponents to defend the next recipient of the ball once the Swans got rolling (ie. we didn’t “trade up aggressively to pick up another blokes opponent quick enough).

BTW - I don’t think King watches all that much. Some faceless but clever analysts look at the tapes, write the script and he just presents it.

 

[TassieGrown]

Chol did more than Gunston (and that includes the soft free he gave away).

Not sure why he cops it when the captain has been sub par but seems to get a pass.

Agree, Sis is lucky he is captain otherwise he would be looking at being dropped. He has been terrible a shadow of his former self

 

[matey]

Great Buddy send off. He walked slowly from centre wing towards Hawks cheer squad ……. majority of Swans supporters were city end! Was definitely his day for saying good bye and thank you to Hawthorn.

 

[BobHawk]

There’s a fair argument to say this one was lost during the week in planning for the opposition, and that falls to David McKay and Sam Mitchell.

Richmond beat them despite being undermanned and West Coast led them at half time before losing by 26 (NB: 150 points better than last year).

Simpson and Yze knew they didn’t have the cattle to go head-to-head. So they planned to make it hard for Sydney to get the game on their terms - and it worked.

We appear not to have planned properly IMHO. The effort was there, but the planning was not.

That’s a problem.

However it should be able to be addressed.

From what we are seeing every week it does seem that Mitchell and coaching staff really do struggle with the game plan, game preparation and they seem to keep getting it wrong. To the point where the players don't seem to have much of a clue about what to do. This could be why the team seems to play at a very low energy level and seem to throw in the towel. If that is the case (this is only conjecture) then there is a good chance that Mitchell is losing or has lost the team. The players have played football their entire lives, even the kids, and know what works and what doesn't and certainly form opinions of coaches and their ability. Every one has a frame of reference from experience. So, we could have a pretty big problem on our hands as a club. I hope that is not the case but it all does look like a real mess right now. On every level.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I'm still trying to figure out what our game plan is? Do we even have a game plan?
why do we persist with kicking the ball long from kick ins when it continuously results in turnovers and goals.

Do we even have a game plan?

Is that a serious question?
Of course we do. Every club has very detailed game plans. But when a good side plays a poor side - the poor side can't deliver on the plan.

You should be able to work it out when we play sides that give us more room, or when you see smooth bits of play.
We had several plays yesterday that resulted in us having set shots from 40m out directly in front. That should also give a hint.

 

[SSSSSS]

It is really this simple.

1. We all hunt the pill too much

2. So yep - we win contested footy and ground ball (yay)

3. Then our next options are too close to us

4. which invites the pressure; so

5. eventually we turn it over by hand or foot; and

6. We are caught out of position and unable to defend properly

This will hopefully get better with experience.

At the moment the players probably lack trust in one and another individually to do the job or the system. They don't have confidence the player will get the ball so they over commit.

We need stronger bodies to win the ball and more tactical knowledge across the ground to stay disciplined.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

It is really this simple.

1. We all hunt the pill too much

2. So yep - we win contested footy and ground ball (yay)

3. Then our next options are too close to us

4. which invites the pressure; so

5. eventually we turn it over by hand or foot; and

6. We are caught out of position and unable to defend properly

Another 'young team' thing we do is go hard at tackling teh player with the ball.
The smarter, more experience players will usually rush at the person they know is going to receive the handball, rather than the guy with the ball.
That probably falls under point 1.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Was nice to see Amon delivering into forward 50 a bit yesterday. Hit some great targets. One of the few that can take time to assess and still find the opportunity in a crowded forward line.

 

[BobHawk]

This will hopefully get better with experience.

At the moment the players probably lack trust in one and another individually to do the job or the system. They don't have confidence the player will get the ball so they over commit.

We need stronger bodies to win the ball and more tactical knowledge across the ground to stay disciplined.

Sure, we are a young team and all that but Sydney players kept slipping tackles. There were very lengthy sequences of play where we had them closed in with many of our senior players involved but they kept getting away with moving the ball. This has been a thing all season. It looks like comedy coming from a professional sports team. What is that all about? I would suggest it is more about desire and effort than it is about Sydney players just being stronger.

 

[BobHawk]

Was nice to see Amon delivering into forward 50 a bit yesterday. Hit some great targets. One of the few that can take time to assess and still find the opportunity in a crowded forward line.

Amon and Impey are absolute weapons and would be starring in teams that move the ball with some competence. They would be killing it with their run and penetrating kicks. Problem for us is we just can't move the ball. It all falls apart after a couple of possessions.

 

[Rowie6]

I think one of our main issues is our first touch under pressure we are fumbling and that just kills the contest in today’s pressure football and how quick the game is!
For most of the year we have been getting our hands to one ball first but then fumble and there is another turnover after another!


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[TassieGrown]

because Box Hill is playing like we did at our best last year - there was less overuse and round and round handball and more run and overlap run and more diverse angled entries into the forward line (such as it was last year), more of a structure and game plan evident and players were where team mates expected them to be or needed them to be - all gone totally backwards this year

agree Box Hill are actually good to watch

 

[phlogiston]

Was at the game yesterday. I come back to something Strapping Young Lad has said on numerous occasions: things are never as good as they seem, nor as bad as they seem.

Thought Scrimshaw, Meek, Mackenzie, Moore, Frost, Amon, and Hardwick all played well. Day worked his way into it. Reckon there's been a lack of love for Frosty's game in this thread: without him and Scrimshaw, we'd be looking at a 100+ point blow out. Amon similar, he did a lot of nice under the hood work.

Three stark differences stood out to me (for my sins I was in the middle of a Sydney crowd not far behind the cheer squad):

1. We lack spread. All too often there would be three or four of our players doing dinky little handballs to each other, and a bunch of unmarked Swans spread so there were no outlets for whoever held the ball.
2. We lack players who are fast for short distances. It was noticeable that Swans were faster over short bursts which helped them in their game plan.
3. We struggled to get it past their half back line. It'd be nice if we could turn some of those uncontested marks into contested marks...

Some other scattered thoughts:

The umpiring was terrible both ways, it's really becoming a big problem for the AFL. Does anyone know why Chol's goal in the second was overturned?

The lack of system for us is having an impact on some players, especially Nash. I'm a big Nash fan, but he was holding up the ball looking for an option on many occasions. MacDonald as well really looked all at sea today.

Sub decisions have been baffling all year, and this week was no exception. If we are going in with a twin tower strategy for the game, why start one of your towers as the sub?

Goal kicking is deplorable. Sure we had a couple of posters, but even so... I did notice at the ground that for set shots, the Swans players would use close to their full allocation of the 30 seconds, and quite often our guys would start their run with more than 10 seconds to go. I wonder if an extra 5-6 seconds might help, especially later in the game.

Feel for Weddle; the guy is getting thrown around into all kinds of positions within a game, which can't be helpful... which leads to my last scattered thought...

I do think we need to pick a 23 for the next few weeks, and, barring injury, stick with them to give them some consistency together. I'll leave it to smarter people than me as to who those 23 should be, but I think this should be a focus for the next 3-4 matches.

 

[hawksfan71]

Agree, Sis is lucky he is captain otherwise he would be looking at being dropped. He has been terrible a shadow of his former self

it's because he's scared to even tackle for fear of being suspended it's a joke the afl is a joke

 

[peetoo]

Great Buddy send off. He walked slowly from centre wing towards Hawks cheer squad ……. majority of Swans supporters were city end! Was definitely his day for saying good bye and thank you to Hawthorn.

Was wondering if he has a little spat with the swans. Didn’t really interact with Sydney fans…many who would be Victoria.

Of course the 3 players brought young kids along, couldn’t be expected to walk a whole lap of the G

 

[peetoo]

Facebook is a mess. Posters actually saying drop Chol for dear. No mention of Lewis

Really, Dears debut and he’s the sole kpf? Wake up people

 

[Yardie]

So why not try tag Gulden instead. There's a distinct lack of ability to change the plan when its not working

Also we need to work on our goal kicking - just not good enough at this level

I think the coaches have fallen into the trap of thinking Finn is a HFF who can tag rather than a tagger. He needs to go to the most damaging player.

 

[Billyc]

Was wondering if he has a little spat with the swans. Didn’t really interact with Sydney fans…many who would be Victoria.

Of course the 3 players brought young kids along, couldn’t be expected to walk a whole lap of the G

I think now it’s all said and done his ties to Hawthorn are much stronger. It’s where he spent his formative years, built the lifelong close friendships with Lewis, Rough and others and where he enjoyed premiership success. Sydney was his employer for many years but I don’t think the personal / emotional ties are the same. Maybe that’s just my own bias but his friendships with Hawthorn teammates is definitely stronger

 

[HoldingThe Ball]

Couple of observations after a pretty bad loss:

Can anyone explain why in the first half when Meek was on the bench, Mitchell expected Chol to ruck, return to the forward line and then front up for the next ball-up?
Leaving one player over 6ft 2 in attack - bonkers.
He was cooked in 2 minutes.

Why on earth not leave Chol up forward for structure and get Nash to ruck - not body up Grundy but actually be an extra mid at the contest around the ball-up.
It's so obvious, yet our entire coaching team missed it.



Meek, McKenzie Scrimshaw and Frost have been very very good all year.

Others have had spells of reasonable form.

McDonald and Sicily have been utter dogshite.




There is something wrong at Waverley - Sam is a prickly character - ask anyone at WCE who was there a few years back. He's very acerbic and most certainly can put people on the naughty step for quite some time - he's also pretty bright, so I'm wondering about a few things.

Mitchell played with Breust Gunston Sicily and Hardwick plus Hale and Roughead - does he perhaps treat then differently than the new and younger guys?

Could this be why Sicily looks unhappy - on one hand SM treats him perhaps a little better off-field than other players he didn't play with, yet Sicily is the one the junior players are expected to go to if they have issues to be raised.

Perhaps he's in an uncomfortable spot?

Maybe that's why quite a few seemed to put the cue in the rack 3 mins into the second half?

One of Sams 'favoured' players - Gunston - stays on, whilst the reasonably well-performing Serong got hooked? A few maybe were pissed at this. I dunno.

One thing I do know is that everytime I watch SM doing a team lecture, he asks a question and 9 times out of 10 nobody answers. Then SM gives up and answers the question himself.

If it's tactics and game planing then SM has to be 1000% certain the message has gone in:




If SM isn't getting his plans across then no wonder we look a hot mess most of the time.

Of course even worse is if he is and the players aren't skilled enough to do it.

Even worse still, is they don't WANT to do it.

Point is - whatever the reason is, Hawthorn have regressed. If they turn up another couple of bad losses in the next 3 rounds, I can see there being a board meeting being called.

Not to sack Sam - he's good for this year - but maybe hire a tough experienced pro who will just listen to Sam's idea and give good honest thoughts without fear of consequences.

It's needed as Sam pretty much lost this game at selection.

He wouldn't do it, but Nathan Buckley would be perfect to sit in for 6 - 8 weeks for a review.

We aren't there yet, but we are very close.

 

[Yardie]

There’s a fair argument to say this one was lost during the week in planning for the opposition, and that falls to David McKay and Sam Mitchell.

We appear not to have planned properly IMHO. The effort was there, but the planning was not.

That’s a problem.

However it should be able to be addressed.

But will it?