Game Day Round 8 vs. Richmond, Sat 07/05, 1:45pm MCG

[Apex36]

Lol, I’m not going through this again.

Disposals - above average
Marks - above average

DE% - Average
Kick Efficiency - average

I thought he had time to carve up the play? I’m sure one of our juniors couldn’t have “average” disposals.

Clearances - average
I50 - below average

So he doesn’t win the ball from contests nor does he impact the game forward of the contest.

Goals - below average
Score involvements - below average

He doesn’t actually make a difference on the scoreboard.

Tackles I50 - below average
Pressure acts - below average

So he’s not a Beau type. He’s not actually going to hunt the defenders.

1% - below average

He doesn’t do the little team things either.

No reason for WHE to be in the team.

What makes you think Poulter, who plays a different position, and still gets rushed with ball in hand at VFL level, would do statistically as well, or any better than WHE playing on a flank?

Also, it’s pretty easy to crap all over a player by listing their weaknesses and ignoring their strengths. Like, “oh he doesn’t tackle inside 50” but ignore the fact that most of his possessions aren’t inside 50, and ignore things like the fact he’s elite by position with intercepts and marks. He’s not even close to perfect, or even above average as a player, but he’s as good as we have for a flanker currently until our young forwards develop to a point that they’re forcing him out.

 

[domus]

Please forgive my ignorance, Jen but is that footage from this morning? Seeing Maynard out there and hearing he is still in doubt due to the flu is confusing me.

 

[Jen2310]

Please forgive my ignorance, Jen but is that footage from this morning? Seeing Maynard out there and hearing he is still in doubt due to the flu is confusing me.

Yes.

This mornings captains run.

All those in doubt trained.

 

[domus]

Yes.

This mornings captains run.

All those in doubt trained.

Beauty! Thanks.

 

[sr36]

What makes you think Poulter, who plays a different position, and still gets rushed with ball in hand at VFL level, would do statistically as well, or any better than WHE playing on a flank?

Also, it’s pretty easy to crap all over a player by listing their weaknesses and ignoring their strengths. Like, “oh he doesn’t tackle inside 50” but ignore the fact that most of his possessions aren’t inside 50, and ignore things like the fact he’s elite by position with intercepts and marks. He’s not even close to perfect, or even above average as a player, but he’s as good as we have for a flanker currently until our young forwards develop to a point that they’re forcing him out.

I think marking is a massive factor in why he's an automatic for us. Our KPFs are few and are generally playing deep - we need our high half forward to be hitting onto the wings and able to time a leap at the footy.

 

[Wearmouth]

Why do I need to do that? He’s not standing out but he’s not performing his role poorly either. Whether or not Poulter could do better than him in a different role to what he’s playing in the VFL is up for debate, but there’s no standout reason for him to be replacing WHE right now either. Your problem seems to be that WHE isn’t kicking goals, but there’s no actual evidence to suggest that Poulter would suddenly turn in to a goal kicker if he were to replace WHE on a forward flank either, so…

Absolute rubbish. With that way of thinking Thomas would still be lost clogging while Ginnivan, McCreery and the like would be languishing in the VFL.

WHE has had long enough in our team. He is not improving and if you all think that hovering around mediocrity is the answer. Obviously other questions need asking. WHE needs to be removed as he is the quintessential list clogger. Does enough to get by. But will never take you anywhere. His custard arms and pea heart are testimony to his on going underwhelmingness(yes I made that word up) but it felt appropriate in describing WHE performance.

Poulter, Ruscoe and Macrea would give us just as much as WHE. However, at least we’ll get other residual improvements, like run and carry, like link up, and most definitely better contested involvement.

But that’s what real watchers of the game see. Instead of the rose coloured Elton John styled glasses worn by the dufflecoaters.


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[gouki88]

Absolute rubbish. With that way of thinking Thomas would still be lost clogging while Ginnivan, McCreery and the like would be languishing in the VFL.

WHE has had long enough in our team. He is not improving and if you all think that hovering around mediocrity is the answer. Obviously other questions need asking. WHE needs to be removed as he is the quintessential list clogger. Does enough to get by. But will never take you anywhere. His custard arms and pea heart are testimony to his on going underwhelmingness(yes I made that word up) but it felt appropriate in describing WHE performance.

Poulter, Ruscoe and Macrea would give us just as much as WHE. However, at least we’ll get other residual improvements, like run and carry, like link up, and most definitely better contested involvement.

But that’s what real watchers of the game see. Instead of the rose coloured Elton John styled glasses worn by the dufflecoaters.


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I've missed you

 

[Wearmouth]

You can't go "average / below average WHE" as if anyone else refers to him as such, particularly when his statistical averages are mostly above average

WHE is nothing more than a list clogger. He needs to be gone. Just as Thomas was sent on his way. End of story.

That he is still there impedes the development of players. Just as Thomas did. The one thing that he has which is a leap. Is counteracted by his peaheartedness. We can do better and we have better prospects with more upside than WHE.


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[Wearmouth]

I think there’s no point playing people who don’t make us better in the long run. We need Pendles and Howe’s leadership in the side.

I’d personally move Sidebottom to the forward pocket and WHE to the sub role. Then transition Sidebottom to the sub and WHE to VFL.

By the end of the year/ start of next year:

Poulter & Harvey Harrison in for Will Hoskin Elliot & Sidebottom.

I’m just trying to look to the future. I couldn’t care less about winning games now with senior bodies.

Absolutely.


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[Wearmouth]

And that's how a club ends up as a basket-case. You need to instil winning habits while having young talent earn their games, otherwise you end up like North Melbourne. Mass exodus of senior talent, gifting unproven youth games, and now they're stuck being terrible. The way we're going about it is much wiser.

While you gift games to WHE…

You’re post is ridiculous.

And North mistakenly went the other way. Noble has coached for his job this year and played the tried and true senior players. Your mistaken about their team make up. It’s the seniors that have failed them. A bunch of list cloggers.

You’ll find for the most part that only a few young players got games concurrently. And not all at once. Good try at inventing facts.


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[sr36]

Absolute rubbish. With that way of thinking Thomas would still be lost clogging while Ginnivan, McCreery and the like would be languishing in the VFL.

WHE has had long enough in our team. He is not improving and if you all think that hovering around mediocrity is the answer. Obviously other questions need asking. WHE needs to be removed as he is the quintessential list clogger. Does enough to get by. But will never take you anywhere. His custard arms and pea heart are testimony to his on going underwhelmingness(yes I made that word up) but it felt appropriate in describing WHE performance.

Poulter, Ruscoe and Macrea would give us just as much as WHE. However, at least we’ll get other residual improvements, like run and carry, like link up, and most definitely better contested involvement.

But that’s what real watchers of the game see. Instead of the rose coloured Elton John styled glasses worn by the dufflecoaters.

The question is are the others ready to perform to the same mediocre level.

Due to his skillset - Macrae is being trained up in a different role.
I quite like Ruscoe, but his concentration and consistency is currently shite.
I quite like Poulter too, but until he starts using the ball better in the VFL, I wouldn't play him. The last thing we need is an outsider who dump kicks it forward due to regularly being rushed in the VFL.

 

[Wearmouth]

This is completely contradictory to your stance on Cox vs Cameron.

Cameron is better than Cox.

In all aspects.

So what’s your point.


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[Wearmouth]

I’m not comparing him to Greene. My question is IF we were to compare his ROLE to another player (from any team), who would it be?

The orange witches hat at training…..

Though you may find it may have more kicks and definitely holds its ground better.


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[JoinDate]

The last thing we need is an outsider who dump kicks it forward due to regularly being rushed in the VFL.

We just got rid of one of those in Phillips.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

I've been as strong as anyone on WHE over the past few weeks.....but having thought about it a bit more i've changed my thinking.

At present he is all we have!
He plays a dual role in that he is primarily a HFF, but he also roles to the wing to support Sidy & JD when they need a break.

So his purpose in the team is multi faceted.

From my perspective, Henry is a far better HFF prospect, but can't play wing.
Poulter can only play 1 spot (wing) and has shown no ability to play HFF in my opinion.
So WHE is basically all we have that is senior enough to play the roles (HFF, 3rd winger) being asked.

No doubt WHE will shirk a few contests tomorrow and drop 1-2 marks as well as kill our momentum with weak efforts and poor decisions.... But he'll get his 15 disposals....

But as i said, there is no depth to push him out of the role he is being asked to play.
So whether we agree or not on his skills.....he's staying in for the time being.

 

[whiskeytown]

Lucky for Poulter those stats don’t include DE%. Reckon his would be as low by foot this year as I’ve seen in a Collingwood footballer. Also doesn’t highlight that he is demonstrating the peripheral awareness of Stevie Wonder. Let him earn his opportunity.

Don’t know how you know Poulters DE% in the VFL when disposal efficiency doesn’t get shown in the VFL stats

And when comparing their AFL stats last year… there was no real difference in DE% between the two

Caleb Poulter and Will Hoskin-Elliott AFL Stats Comparison

Caleb Poulter and Will Hoskin-Elliott AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Wearmouth]

Lucky for Poulter those stats don’t include DE%. Reckon his would be as low by foot this year as I’ve seen in a Collingwood footballer. Also doesn’t highlight that he is demonstrating the peripheral awareness of Stevie Wonder. Let him earn his opportunity.

Poulter is more of a natural footballer than WHE. Poulter knows how to find it, and will only get better at using it. Given enough time. The kid was averaging above 30+ possessions in his NAB equivalent year. Let him develop his game. We’ll be all the better for it. I can handle his faux pas’ more than I can handle WHE’s custard arms.


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[gouki88]

While you gift games to WHE…

You’re post is ridiculous.

And North mistakenly went the other way. Noble has coached for his job this year and played the tried and true senior players. Your mistaken about their team make up. It’s the seniors that have failed them. A bunch of list cloggers.

You’ll find for the most part that only a few you players got games. And not all at once. Good try at inventing facts.


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You might not have thought about my post very hard, but I wasn't actually talking about Noble's Kangaroos.

 

[whiskeytown]

I've been as strong as anyone on WHE over the past few weeks.....but having thought about it a bit more i've changed my thinking.

At present he is all we have!
He plays a dual role in that he is primarily a HFF, but he also roles to the wing to support Sidy & JD when they need a break.

So his purpose in the team is multi faceted.

From my perspective, Henry is a far better HFF prospect, but can't play wing.
Poulter can only play 1 spot (wing) and has shown no ability to play HFF in my opinion.
So WHE is basically all we have that is senior enough to play the roles (HFF, 3rd winger) being asked.

No doubt WHE will shirk a few contests tomorrow and drop 1-2 marks as well as kill our momentum with weak efforts and poor decisions.... But he'll get his 15 disposals....

But as i said, there is no depth to push him out of the role he is being asked to play.
So whether we agree or not on his skills.....he's staying in for the time being.

Fair points… but we don’t know that Poulter can’t play WHE role

… because we’ve never tried him in it!

 

[Jen2310]

 

[gouki88]

Cameron is better than Cox.

In all aspects.

So what’s your point.


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Isn't your schtick not jumping into other people's conversations without understanding the context? Pretty major breach here ...

 

[Apex36]

Absolute rubbish. With that way of thinking Thomas would still be lost clogging while Ginnivan, McCreery and the like would be languishing in the VFL.

I don’t know how you’ve come to that conclusion. Both Ginni and McCreery forced their way in to the team last year on the back of standout performances in the same role that Thomas was playing in the senior team. Genuinely confused by this statement.

WHE has had long enough in our team. He is not improving and if you all think that hovering around mediocrity is the answer. Obviously other questions need asking. WHE needs to be removed as he is the quintessential list clogger. Does enough to get by. But will never take you anywhere. His custard arms and pea heart are testimony to his on going underwhelmingness(yes I made that word up) but it felt appropriate in describing WHE performance.

Poulter, Ruscoe and Macrea would give us just as much as WHE. However, at least we’ll get other residual improvements, like run and carry, like link up, and most definitely better contested involvement.

But that’s what real watchers of the game see. Instead of the rose coloured Elton John styled glasses worn by the dufflecoaters.


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Poulter, a wingman, Ruscoe, a defender, and Macrae, a midfielder would provide more for us than WHE, a forward, playing on a forward flank?
Sorry but tbh I’d prefer we continue to develop them in their intended positions in the VFL and giving them continuity in their development rather than playing them out of position in the AFL like we did for years to Ben Kennedy, Broomhead, and even C Brown.
Whilst WHE isn’t ideal, I’d prefer he were forced out of the team by guys like Reef, Murley and Harrison who all seem to be getting played in those genuine fwd/mid roles. As it stands, Reef is the most likely, but he hasn’t played for a couple of weeks now, so he’ll have to go back to the VFL for a (hopefully) short spell and try to bang the door down again. I’m confident he does sooner than later, as he looked comfortable with the speed of the game at senior level.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Fair points… but we don’t know that Poulter can’t play WHE role

… because we’ve never tried him in it!

yup....which is my unspoken point!!
So many on our list are in years 1-3 that they haven't learnt to play both those roles yet.
Especially at AFL level.

You can't just throw them in mid season in the AFL and expect them to be able to play two difficult roles (HFF and wing are very hard to play these days) without knowing how!
And right now, mid season, is not the time to try this at AFL!

Hence why WHE stays for the time being.....

 

[sr36]

I've been as strong as anyone on WHE over the past few weeks.....but having thought about it a bit more i've changed my thinking.

At present he is all we have!
He plays a dual role in that he is primarily a HFF, but he also roles to the wing to support Sidy & JD when they need a break.

So his purpose in the team is multi faceted.

From my perspective, Henry is a far better HFF prospect, but can't play wing.
Poulter can only play 1 spot (wing) and has shown no ability to play HFF in my opinion.
So WHE is basically all we have that is senior enough to play the roles (HFF, 3rd winger) being asked.

No doubt WHE will shirk a few contests tomorrow and drop 1-2 marks as well as kill our momentum with weak efforts and poor decisions.... But he'll get his 15 disposals....

But as i said, there is no depth to push him out of the role he is being asked to play.
So whether we agree or not on his skills.....he's staying in for the time being.

I think Wilson is the one that could cover the same roles, but like all of them, he's got his tics too.

 

[Apex36]

Cameron is better than Cox.

In all aspects.

So what’s your point.


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This post wasn’t directed at you. Not sure why you felt the need to reply, especially when you clearly don’t have any clue about it’s context.