- Feb 8, 2017
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We are on the same trajectory and the scum still haven’t recovered 15 years post Sheedy
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Autopsy Round 9, 2021: Hawks get bounced
- Thread starter Strapping Young Lad
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We need to embrace the paucity of the list and the dreadful skills level of the majority of the list. We also lack speed, dare and I hate to say heart.
It's a long way back but I'd we are true to ourselves and use today as the nadir it can be done. No more lying to ourselves about player x might come good, how good we are pre season, how we are better than such and such a club we are and how Clarko is our point of differentiation.
It's hard to say the above but we need to face it and move forward. If Clarko wants to stay and build, he needs to commit to change and embrace it fully.
It's a long way back but I'd we are true to ourselves and use today as the nadir it can be done. No more lying to ourselves about player x might come good, how good we are pre season, how we are better than such and such a club we are and how Clarko is our point of differentiation.
It's hard to say the above but we need to face it and move forward. If Clarko wants to stay and build, he needs to commit to change and embrace it fully.
scout
Norm Smith Medallist
Max Powers
Yes, I can hear you Clem Fandango!
At a family dinner so didn't watch the game and my father-in-law just leaned over and said "so i heard Hawthorn lost today". FFS this is disgusting even by 2021 standards. Course we have to be the first team to lose to North. Pathetic!
Everyone has embraced it. Noone is in denial. The absolute lack of effort is deplorable though. It's 2004 level, where the players cared more about off field than on it
Correct, just have to be smart about it. If we can get a couple of first rounders for Mitch and say Gunston, then that is a great start for now.
Picks alone isn’t going to solve it. Look today at GCS today.who have had the pick of the draft for years and are still rubbish. Same goes for Carlton. Trade in some good role players and get some good young guys mixed in and it will turn.
Our biggest problem is the game plan and selection. It is slow, boring and easily broken down. Too many players don’t have the skill level to pick there way through defence.
Lickmesocks
Premiership Player
- Oct 2, 2019
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Jordan Lewis loves Hawthorn with all his heart.
LISTEN TO HIM CLOSELY.
Don’t listen to spin from the club.
LISTEN TO HIM CLOSELY.
Don’t listen to spin from the club.
killerspud
Premiership Player
- Aug 23, 2009
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Who's to say in 5 years we will look at the list today and say can't believe Day, CJ, Downie and Jeka were all on that list
- Sep 15, 2007
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Oh ffs.
Sorry to single you out but the pissing and moaning is a bit much. 4 or 5 years?? No.
We suck right now but this stuff can be remedied fast, there is plenty of talent on the list.
OMeara, Mitchell, Wingard, Day, Sicily, Hardwick, CJ, Scrimshaw, Impey, Worpel, Kosi, Lewis, TOB will all be at the club in 5 years. DGB, Seamus and Brockman are all promising youngsters. A few good picks this summer and a couple of good recruits from other clubs and we are right back in the hunt. I would be suprised if we were still at the arse end in 2 years time.
I remember looking at Brisbanes list in 2017 and wondering how the **** they would ever come good. In 2018 they finish 4 from the bottom. That was under 3 years ago.
Im a realistic supporter. Things need a shake up. But the sky-is-falling tantrums ITT are a bit much.
spudmaster
Brownlow Medallist
Lean back over and reply "I'm banging your daughter"
Mercy Seat
Norm Smith Medallist
Summary?
- Sep 15, 2007
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- #388
Four. Years. Minimum.
Anyone who thinks different is living in denial.
Anyone that thinks there is plenty of talent on our list, couldn't have been watching the past 18 months. It's staggering how many players we have on our list that wouldn't get a game in another side that's not North or the Crows.
They might be list cloggers, but they could also be a Poppy or a Stratton. I’d rather take the risk with them than the Hanrahans, Moore’s and O’Brien’s.
GC getting done by 100 points here and have a thousand top 10 picks. It's not the answer either.
Max Powers
Yes, I can hear you Clem Fandango!
Ummm I'm fine, get over yourself...
2 years is wishful thinking, we might get a small spike but at that point mitchell, O’Meara and wingard will be 30+ gunston and Breust will be retired, we literally have no decent key position defenders on our list and our midfield is the worst in the comp even with those players, so there’s a fair chance we end up in a bigger hole in 2 years than we are atm
And there I was thinking we have one of the midfields going around, Top 10 picks in Mitchell,O;Meara,Worpel,Wingard. One of our strengths. I could understand backline and to some extent forward line not being as strong, although with Gunston/Bruest all class, 50+ goal players in our premiership years.
Sorry, I'm not really sure if this is tongue in cheek or not?
Sure there were some superstars in the making there. Hodge and Mitchell the standouts. Williams about to start killing it for the next few years. Crawford was 31 or 32, and 5 years passed his brownlow year, and 2 years beyond his last AA. The vast majority of the rest of them were B+ at best from that point on. Brad Sewell perhaps the only other player in the younger group who you could argue was elite, and I think that is a stretch and a very biased hawthorn perspective to say he was at that level. Thompson and Hay both had headspace issues that ultimately lead to them to be traded (in Thompson's case for his own good in what was probably a win-win). Hay had one standad out year 3 seasons prior. Bateman was fun to watch and one of my favourites in the group at that time, but I'm not sure you could say he was elite.
That team also lost to the wooden spooners, and had a percentage worse than the one we have now, as a result of many massive thumpings over the season. If you look at the actual players in that 2004 team that did go on to play in 2008 flag, I don't think the core group there is overly impressive, in fact the bottom half of the group that did go on to 2008 is particularly ordinary compared to what we already have on the list in 2021.
I posted a similar list from 2003 season in a main board thread (when Sewell didn't play and Croad was still at freo) that went on to the 2008 GF side:
Crawford
Mitchell
Hodge
Williams
Bateman
Osborne
Ladson
Brown
Campbell
If I chose the best 9 players I think we have in the side right now that are young enough to play in finals team in 5 years time it would look something like:
Wingard
Mitchell
O'Meara
Sicily
Day
Impey
Scrimshaw
Hardwick
Jiath
Obviously Mitchell and Hodge are top shelf, but it would have been hard to see Crawford lasting another 5 years at that point give he was already 31 by the end of the season (I think). We could have some of our better players last beyond expectation too, although Crawf's dedication to preparation and getting himself up each week is hard to match. Williams was also an absolute gun, and I liked Bateman a lot. However the bottom 4 of that list is IMO a good deal worse than the bottom 4 in our 2021 equivalent list so I reckon the base isn't actually terrible. Also that list doesn't include DGB, Downie or Reeves, who you'd hope will help flesh out that base. Basically much of the 2008 GF team came AFTER the 2004 home and away season, and it came quickly from the draft that year and onwards. We did get 2 priority picks, but one was wasted on injury prone Ellis, and we wasted several other top 10 picks. Only 2004 was really a total success draft wise.
The club did an amazing job to build to a flag from that list in only 4 years. If it wasn't for absolutely nailing the draft that year and getting Roughy, Franklin and Lewis , not only might 2008 not have happened, but 2013,14, and 15 may have been in doubt. I think we succeeded IN SPITE of the quality of the pre-2004 draft list , not because of it (but of course getting Mitchell and Hodge in 2001 was important, but they were a small part of a fairly mediocre list at that point IMO).
- Sep 15, 2007
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Phew. Im glad to hear you are ok after being eviscerated by your FIL..
- Aug 31, 2008
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Clarko talking about North's experienced players? Lol
Leadership is so valuable, even if you don't have world-beating talent. Gunston and Sicily have it but they're sidelined by injury. Burgoyne has it too but his focus now is achieving the 400 game milestone. Other than that, the cupboards are bare
See I don't think it has been embraced within the culture and fabric.
Jeff talking about being near the top again Ina couple of years. Yes, I know he needs to sell but it's a get out to others in the organisation, "we'll be ok soon because that's what we do".
The game plan as such allows us to score 8/10 goals a game if we are on. We used hubs as a reason for it last year and we've not changed a thing this year and yet here we are again. The coaches knew and know the players' limitations so change something based on them.
Just observing from a distance but somethings can be changed without list renewal and immediately but here we are.
Max Powers
Yes, I can hear you Clem Fandango!
Never said i was eviscerated, he told me and i was miffed losing to a team that hasn't won a game all year. You really are a dickhead!
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