Autopsy Round 9, 2021: Hawks get bounced

[TylerDurden]

Unbelievable there are some here excusing that “effort”. We kicked the next goal and still had a chance to at least draw so the “game was done” line doesn’t fit.

As Tops said, we as a supporter base should not be accepting efforts like that.

Agree. It's a disgrace.

 

[Mrzohs]

Absolutely pathetic. Watch Mitchell, McEvoy and JOM.

3 senior players! This Highlights we need a change in Leadership or Coaching asap.
- Players are not playing for the coach.
- Leaders are not up to it.

Ps Impey is also in the picture in his Defence he had just sprinted 100m with the footy.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Yes, the players are seemingly not playing for the coach. This seemed evident a few weeks ago.

 

[The hands of stone]

Unbelievable there are some here excusing that “effort”. We kicked the next goal and still had a chance to at least draw so the “game was done” line doesn’t fit.

As Tops said, we as a supporter base should not be accepting efforts like that.

Who is excusing it ?

Everyone has been rightly scathing and disapointed with that footage.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Far from worst on but wouldn’t be in the top 5 on ground. Goldy, LDU, Simpkin, Cunnington and Zurhaar for them and Wings for us had much better games.

He'd be in our top 3 for the day, and who knows what he was asked do to and managed to pull off. Look at the coaches votes each week, there are always anomalies for this reason. Hardly the biggest WTF.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Yes, the players are seemingly not playing for the coach. This seemed evident a few weeks ago.

Long bow...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yes, the players are seemingly not playing for the coach. This seemed evident a few weeks ago.

More likely they’d given up on the game, rather than the coach after watching their lead get eroded.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Who is excusing it ?

Everyone has been rightly scathing and disapointed with that footage.

 

[Nastyfish]

Absolutely pathetic. Watch Mitchell, McEvoy and JOM.

Yeah it’s pathetic. That’s in the head right, and the heart? The body can still go if those other two are working. Still a long time left in the game at that point, and some of those guys found something later to run the other way. Back to clarko to find something.

 

[QuietB]

I must have missed something but this was last playing second last wasn't it?

I know it is embarrassing but Hawthorn were never going to find a way to magically put up a cricket score just because they were playing last.

Hawthorn kick 7-8 goals against a top side. And they kick 12-14 goals against a shit side. Hawthorn kicked 12 goals. Hawthorn did what they do.

 

[kazzooka]

Unbelievable there are some here excusing that “effort”. We kicked the next goal and still had a chance to at least draw so the “game was done” line doesn’t fit.

As Tops said, we as a supporter base should not be accepting efforts like that.

That was a passage i mentioned earlier, absolutely putrid. Game is on the line and 3 of our leaders are walking. Impy is walking.

Bruest is chasing but too far back and probably not going flat out either.

All 4 need to be called out during the week. These guys are the leaders, our best players in their prime age (bar McEvoy, but he is the captain and needs to set a perfect example). Why would Moore want to do hard stuff if these guys don't. Why should Cousins be called out for poor defensive work (actually one of our best this week) and the vice captain get a pass.

So embarrassing.

 

[ShortRaver]

something changed around that St Kilda game

we were fighting out games really well, our effort was actually the shining light of our performances

completely faded away and has been unacceptable of late

Whilst the video doesn't show the 10 minutes before it (where we were clawing back into it but some crucial umpire calls killed the momentum, and I felt factored into a 'why bother' attitude from the team - which I am not excusing), I actually do agree that the St Kilda game was a significant turning point. Being at the game, you could feel the mood of supporters thinking that something wasn't quite right. That match felt like our game plan had been properly deconstructed and exploited with ease. Since then, every other match has looked the same. In the case of North Melbourne, once they found that exploit, they started to run us over just the same.

Speaking of, I just saw the quick match analysis on 'The Round So Far' on YouTube and they had a screen showing our 'fade' periods in every match for the season so far, and it doesn't look good at all.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

More likely they’d given up on the game, rather than the coach after watching their lead get eroded.

Overlapping magisteria.

Do you honestly believe that players that have totally bought in, and are completely committed to playing for the coach, would put in that kind of effort?

Especially after that coach has come under a lot of scrutiny recently?

Especially when they were playing the bottom, winless, side in a must win game. Especially when there was still enough time to actually kick the two goals needed to win the game.

The players have packed it in during multiple games now.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Overlapping magisteria.

Do you honestly believe that players that have totally bought in, and are completely committed to playing for the coach, would put in that kind of effort?

Especially after that coach has come under a lot of scrutiny recently?

Especially when they were playing the bottom, winless, side in a must win game. Especially when there was still enough time to actually kick the two goals needed to win the game.

The players have packed it in during multiple games now.

Not sure how much footy you’ve played, but speaking from experience, when you’ve had a run of bad games but given your all, there’s always a breaking point where it all gets too hard.

North had the momentum for the entire last half of that game. Our boys tried to stop it, but they kept coming and once North got in front, I have no doubt a few of them thought the game was up. They threw in the towel.

Correlating that to “they aren’t playing for the coach” is an easy throw away line to make, but needs a lot more than a few players not sprinting back through the middle with 2 minutes to play to qualify it.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Curling up the toes when things don't go your way is not something Clarko would be happy about. Either attitude of some players change in the near future or a mass amount of changes are coming in the next two off seasons. That's not acceptable AT ALL.

 

[MinerBoy]

He was one of our best, despite how he’s slowing down. 10 score involvements, 5 tackles, 5 inside 50’s.

Was never going to be dropped.

Yep I agree. Was an interesting game from Shiels. He did a few things (slip, drop ball) that really looked bad, but overall still put in a much better effort than most.

It's more a reflection on a sad state of two teams that his game was still vote worthy more than anything.

 

[On Topic]

And Impey

Impey was absolutely spent to be fair. He blew himself out with a sprint a bit earlier I’m pretty sure.
The other three though..

 

[Gaston]

That was a passage i mentioned earlier, absolutely putrid. Game is on the line and 3 of our leaders are walking. Impy is walking.

Bruest is chasing but too far back and probably not going flat out either.

All 4 need to be called out during the week. These guys are the leaders, our best players in their prime age (bar McEvoy, but he is the captain and needs to set a perfect example). Why would Moore want to do hard stuff if these guys don't. Why should Cousins be called out for poor defensive work (actually one of our best this week) and the vice captain get a pass.

So embarrassing.

The old permutations of a bottom side with little hope or desire.
How sad that it has come to this.

For anyone who hasn't played team sport, the above is exactly what happens when things are going so so poorly.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[FactsNotBS]

No you are missing the point

Do you think that Clarksons performance as coach and decision maker are up to standard?

Granted the list is poor but still, as the coach and decision maker the question still stands as we are kidding ourselves if we think some of the very poor decision making is without his input

And therefore the comparison to an opening bat is extremely relevant

I think his decision making under the circumstances/rules etc has been first class. Way better than an inexperienced coach would be. I would concede if we had a really young list it would a benefit to have a younger coach to connect with them but as I mentioned previously, its not just about coaching the team. Its about coaching the coaches and making the club the best place it can be. An inexperienced coach is highly unlikely to do that. As history shows, only Clarkson was able to do it well, hence my comparision to GWS, Carlton, Gold Coast. They all got high end talent but the club was not able to develop the players and the culture to make them successful. If we were to get a Shaw, Dew, Buckley or Teague type coach (who hasnt been able to develop talent and build a club culture) it would be a disaster for us. You are not going to get that type of failure from Clarko. Anyway, its a mute point as the club have made it clear. They have their plan and they arent moving from it. I trust them 100% as the trust has been earned and they deserve it.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Overlapping magisteria.

Do you honestly believe that players that have totally bought in, and are completely committed to playing for the coach, would put in that kind of effort?

Especially after that coach has come under a lot of scrutiny recently?

Especially when they were playing the bottom, winless, side in a must win game. Especially when there was still enough time to actually kick the two goals needed to win the game.

The players have packed it in during multiple games now.

Don't know if it's the coach they've given up on or the gameplan.

In each game this year, the opposition has put in one quarter of football that our gameplan has had no answers to and seemingly only made things worse being ultra defensive, not designed to score and dull. When the opposition can kill you off in 20min of football despite it being designed to be ultra defensive, it can also kill off your belief, especially when a winless side is tearing it up.

Looks more like a gameplan belief issue. You're on the right track, but so is Abasi. You're reasonings are probably both right. The players get to that point in the opposition run-on and seemingly give up due to not believing in the effectiveness of the gameplan. When they've given up on the coach, the vibe is lackluster for 4 quarters, which we haven't really seen yet. St Kilda game, maybe, but they got their run early and never looked back.

Having said all that, once the players lose faith in the gameplan, the faith in the coach is not going to last a whole heap longer...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Curling up the toes when things don't go your way is not something Clarko would be happy about. Either attitude of some players change in the near future or a mass amount of changes are coming in the next two off seasons. That's not acceptable AT ALL.

We’ve been pretty good at fighting out games to date.

Was this the watershed moment for the group?

 

[Brishawk]

Then the onus is completely on him to come up with a plan that suits the players. The job of the coach is to get the most out of the players. That's evidently not happening.

Do you blame the players for being asked to do something that they have demonstrated, repeatedly, that cannot do?

Or do you blame the person that continues to ask them to do something that they evidently cannot do?

He's had two years to come up with something that's a better fit for the squad at his disposal. This is mostly the same squad that he believed was contending two years ago - and we have gone backwards at an alarming and unacceptable rate.

At the end of the day it's up to the coaches to get the team playing in a way that enables them to outperform the sum of their parts. This team may be a bottom four side. But there is no way that it's this bad.

And to compound that we have club and coach trying to preach/sell a rebuild to the fans, but then they go and bring the likes of Hartley, Howe and TOB in. It's an unbelievable situation.

So if the only game plan this group can execute is to kick long down the line every time? Does that bring us closer to a flag? Or does attempting a more attacking game plan expose players so we can find out who can execute and who can’t?

I think you well underestimate the scale of the change to the list that has occurred since last year, let alone since 2019.

6 players from this side have left the club or retired. A further 5 didn’t play on the weekend. So half the 22 from our round 23 clash in 2019.

12 players left the list since last year alone.

our forward line consists of Lewis, Kosi, Moore, ollie, tob and Breust. Have the first four players really had two years of playing together as a group to master the game plan?

our backline has Cj, frost, hartigan and Hartley who would be lucky to have five games played together. Again, have they really had two years to gel and execute the game plan?

no doubt our clearance work is a big problem and for me, this is the area where coaches should have made more progress. We started the year off reasonably well but a slight dip in effort sees us get blown out of the water. Same issue as last year. I know our rucks don’t help but the current state of our clearance work is appalling.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

different sports, I know, but I think of GSW basketball when you look at short term pain for long term growth

you win based off a system and everybody buying in. The warriors are the best example of this. They could run a STEPH curry pick and roll every possession and probably win 5 extra games a year.

However, they don't because they know in crunch time it's effectiveness will diminish substantially. It won't win you championships.

And look how much better GSW got as the year went on and the players started to understand the system.

The same concept applies here. We have a bunch of blokes who don't know how to play in a system we've only really started to implement. Of course it's gonna take a while, but I think it's way too early to give up on it. Systems and how well every player on a list executes it is just as important as how good the list is imo.

We need to give a game plan time to work. Maybe it's a bad plan relative to our list, maybe it's a bad plan relative to the comp. It's still in its infancy now and needs to be given another block of time to see if it can be executed better, and if it will stand up in the finals

 

[Glacier]

different sports, I know, but I think of GSW basketball when you look at short term pain for long term growth

you win based off a system and everybody buying in. The warriors are the best example of this. They could run a STEPH curry pick and roll every possession and probably win 5 extra games a year.

However, they don't because they know in crunch time it's effectiveness will diminish substantially. It won't win you championships.

And look how much better GSW got as the year went on and the players started to understand the system.

The same concept applies here. We have a bunch of blokes who don't know how to play in a system we've only really started to implement. Of course it's gonna take a while, but I think it's way too early to give up on it. Systems and how well every player on a list executes it is just as important as how good the list is imo.

We need to give a game plan time to work. Maybe it's a bad plan relative to our list, maybe it's a bad plan relative to the comp. It's still in its infancy now and needs to be given another block of time to see if it can be executed better, and if it will stand up in the finals

Can anybody say what this " gameplan " is though?
Anyone?
Its fine to say trust the development of a gameplan but nobody seems to know what it is