Ryan Crowley tests positive to banned substance (Opposition supporters tread carefully)

[youmewe]

He is under provisional suspension since the show cause notice, it means if his penalty is minor it will back date to the start of the provisional suspension. He wont be training with the rest of the team and wont be playing.

No point de-listing him now, don't think AFL allowed Saints to replace Saad with a rookie.

He can train on his own, but not with the team.

I don't know about that.

My understanding is that he can train with the team whilst provisionally suspended, as indeed he has been. As indeed have the Essendon players who are provisionally suspended. As did Saad whilst he was provisionally suspended.

This would change if he is actually suspended by the AFL Tribunal.

In the Saad case the AFL relented and allowed him to resume training with the team whilst still suspended ...

The AFL Commission is set to confirm that St Kilda's Ahmed Saad will be allowed to resume training with club from January, despite being banned from playing until the end of February due to his doping suspension.

St Kilda's chief operating officer Ameet Bains said the AFL Commission was expected to allow Saad to train - a ruling in line with new government legislation on doping - at its scheduled meeting on Monday. "I think it will be a formality," he said.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...to-train-while-suspended-20141213-126m8w.html

 

[Freo Dr]

He probably had a really bad ******* headache. That's why these rules are so stupid.

It was reported previously somewhere he does get migraines as well - not sure if that is natural, concussion history induced or from cocentrating on his role/player so much.

Even things like pseudeoephedrine are probably on the list. I have little doubt it was an innocent mistake but I cannot see given Saad before him how he can argue his way out of it. Can only hope for what the AFL is trying to wangle for Essendon players by having a backdated suspension that will still allow him to play sometime late in the season.

 

[Allikat]

Oh my god !! I'm exactly the same. Prescription shit doesn't even work, neither do the new codral. I thought I was wierd

Soldier on

Oh it all works excellently for me! But I hold a aviation medical so we have similar drug restrictions to athletes.

 

[pokerspiv]

Even things like pseudeoephedrine are probably on the list. I have little doubt it was an innocent mistake but I cannot see given Saad before him how he can argue his way out of it. .

No, I doubt he can argue his way out of it either, but there's a fair chance he'll get a reduced penalty if he can successfully argue it wasn't for performance enhancing reasons.

My point is really that things like painkillers should not be part of the banned list. Drugs like steroids are banned because of the moral hazard of effectively making them a required part of competition - the side effects are too dangerous. But the side effects of taking painkillers (in recommended dosages) are pretty much zero.

 

[Bojangles17]

I expect there prob isn't much in it but with ASADA about as forgiving as an Indonesian bail Justice they'll likely throw the book at him

 

[GilG]

Questions:

1. Why (at least) a FIVE-MONTH wait for an ASADA hearing AFTER the October infraction was handed out?

That doesn't seem fair to players and clubs. Though it may not be the same type of violation of policy, it's understandable why Essendon players would be miffed at not knowing their own fates for so long.

2. Why couldn't the information been made public on the infraction issue day?

Shortly afterward, Crowls could've fronted the media, as he did today and the two sides could've begun preparing their respective cases.

3. Why would Crowls go outside the club for the meds in question -- or not first seek the AFLPA's help?

Not that he could've known, but in a '90s Major League Baseball case, a player named David Segui requested and got clearance from the league to use human growth hormone, a banned substance, because he had low insulin. However...years later, after his retirement, Segui admitted he knowingly bought from a team's personal trainer and used another drug, an asthma medication, which contained a banned ingredient which helps reduce body fat.

4. Is the yet-to-be-named "banned substance" a "performance enhancing" one?

If not, then what competitive advantage could Crowls have been getting from it, other than the ability to play pain-free? If that's cheating, then most every current and past player in most every professional sport is guilty. If not, then the AFL and other world sporting codes better completely revise their painkiller taking policies, because God only knows what substances players get injected with to keep them in playing shape. Remember some of the recent NBA players who developed life-threatening kidney conditions at young ages? All due to excessive taking of painkillers, which were sanctioned by the clubs.

5. Why does WADA allow players to continue playing, as Crowls did, after a beta test confirmed the presence of a banned substance?

 

[Mr Fonebone]

This is the end for him, but in all honesty, was finished anyway. Would only be holding back the young talent
if available for selection, same as Sylvia, the game has passed them by.

Bit harsh that.

 

[pokerspiv]

Questions:

1. Why (at least) a FIVE-MONTH wait for an ASADA hearing AFTER the October infraction was handed out?

ASADA is a giant government bureaucracy that handles a lot more sports than just AFL.

Imagine the DMV in America. That's the kind of organisation you're dealing with. Nothing happens in a hurry.

 

[Allikat]

I expect there prob isn't much in it but with ASADA about as forgiving as an Indonesian bail Justice they'll likely throw the book at him

ASADA aren't unforgiving, unless you ask a bombers supporter. ASADA just stick to rules. So if, under the rules, Crowls has broken them, then yes he should be suspended. But we don't know all the facts yet.

Questions:

1. Why (at least) a FIVE-MONTH wait for an ASADA hearing AFTER the October infraction was handed out?

That doesn't seem fair to players and clubs. Though it may not be the same type of violation of policy, it's understandable why Essendon players would be miffed at not knowing their own fates for so long.

2. Why would Crowls go outside the club for the meds in question -- or not first seek the AFLPA's help?

In a Major League Baseball case in the '90s, a player named David Segui requested and got clearance to use a banned substance

3. Is the yet-to-be-named "banned substance" a "performance enhancing" one?

If so, are the AFL and ASADA claiming Crowls "cheated" to gain an unfair advantage? If not, then the AFL and other world sporting codes better completely revise their painkiller policies, because God only knows what substances players get injected with to keep them in playing shape. Remember some of the recent NBA players who developed life-threatening kidney conditions at young ages? All due to excessive taking of painkillers, which were sanctioned by the clubs.

ASADA are very underfunded and understaffed. The Essendon case alone could've easily taken up all the resources that they have.

 

[Freodoc]

Do I get a prize !!

NONONONONONONO

 

[simpsonwillo]

This is the end for him, but in all honesty, was finished anyway. Would only be holding back the young talent
if available for selection, same as Sylvia, the game has passed them by.

Sadly, and I know it's harsh, I'm of the same view

 

[ManWithNoName]

2. Why would Crowls go outside the club for the meds in question -- or not first seek the AFLPA's help?

Because he's read a newspaper at some point in the last two years?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

so you call the doctor at 2am in the morning?

Yep, that's what they're there for and I would be surprised if the players weren't told to do exactly this.

 

[blue shark]

Bit harsh that.

Yeah sorry, was at his absolute best in 2013, but at his age and the role asked to play, has had its toll physically and mentally. AFL, media
portrayal didn't help.
I was excited at first on Sylvia, but like most people have lost patience, and the kids have more to offer, my opinion.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Yep, that's what they're there for and I would be surprised if the players weren't told to do exactly this.

Surely a 5 minute phone call at 2am is preferable to this situation.

 

[ImperialPurple]

What an idiot...

 

[GilG]

Because he's read a newspaper at some point in the last two years?

LOL! Fair enough, but by your assessment, his hypothetical reading of one didn't help.

 

[Tas]

I don't know about that.

My understanding is that he can train with the team whilst provisionally suspended, as indeed he has been. As indeed have the Essendon players who are provisionally suspended. As did Saad whilst he was provisionally suspended.

This would change if he is actually suspended by the AFL Tribunal.

In the Saad case the AFL relented and allowed him to resume training with the team whilst still suspended ...

The AFL Commission is set to confirm that St Kilda's Ahmed Saad will be allowed to resume training with club from January, despite being banned from playing until the end of February due to his doping suspension.

St Kilda's chief operating officer Ameet Bains said the AFL Commission was expected to allow Saad to train - a ruling in line with new government legislation on doping - at its scheduled meeting on Monday. "I think it will be a formality," he said.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...to-train-while-suspended-20141213-126m8w.html

Ahh, didn't realise they changed the rules in relation to training while suspended.

 

[xown]

Sucks for Crowley, hopefully it doesn't end up like Saad or we'll never see him play again.
Lol @ the people who have it on "good authority" reasons A) B) C) all full of shit. Nobody picked this.

I've seen it stated elsewhere that Crowley took the medication from someone outside of the club without speaking to the club doc, surely these guys are smarter than that...

 

[GilG]

ASADA is a giant government bureaucracy that handles a lot more sports than just AFL.

Imagine the DMV in America. That's the kind of organisation you're dealing with. Nothing happens in a hurry.

Believe me, I wish the DMV was an imaginary body...

 

[Seppo]

Best case for him is cop a 6 month ban back dated from October and hopefully join the team fresh at the later part of the season.

 

[GilG]

When was Sam Menegola delisted? Had to be after October 1, when the infraction notice was issued, right? The club seemed to be grooming him at Peel for a future tagger role. If the club knew about Crowls's troubles and still cut Menegola loose, it couldn't have rated Menegola too highly.

 

[Bojangles17]

ASADA aren't unforgiving, unless you ask a bombers supporter. ASADA just stick to rules. So if, under the rules, Crowls has broken them, then yes he should be suspended. But we don't know all the facts yet.

ASADA are very underfunded and understaffed. The Essendon case alone could've easily taken up all the resources that they have.

You call 18 months for a sports drink not grounds for unforgiving , I would have thought 6-10 weeks would suffice, that said I suppose it can't be proven it actually came from a sports drink which will be the test here As prev mentioned , could have been a painkiller that contains substances which in their own right fall into a completely different bracket . I just hate this stuff coz it takes the media focus of talkin footy

 

[Borry]

Opportunity presents for De Boer and possibly a few youngsters.

Shows that professional sportspeople need to be muy, muy cuidado with regards to purchasing any form of medicine.

 

[GilG]

From the AFL website: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-16/so-what-did-crowley-take

So if you read Doc Larkins's take here, the laws say it's perfectly OK for EVERYONE except for non-professional athletes to be prescribed drugs with narcotic ingredients, by licensed physicians, to manage their own pain and ostensibly, continue their own professional trades, but ASADA says professional athletes can't, because masking pain is unhealthy.

Do ASADA's rules supersede a country's laws?

Hmmm...how many people who perform heavy physical tasks for a living take legally-prescribed painkillers with narcotic ingredients to manage their pain and continue doing their jobs? Do those workers' employers allow them to do that?

And so ASADA now would be punishing Crowls for making an "unhealthy choice"?

By that logic, why doesn't ASADA go ahead and add alcohol, tobacco, nicotine, caffeine, MSG, KFC and McDonald's to the banned substances list and go after all violators?