Scape Goat S and C team should be gone

[Scham]

Harley hasn’t made it though a single game yet. I don’t think we can say for certain Melbourne’s approach has worked.


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The thread has moved in that direction but I think we’re missing the point of the OP. The way I took it was that regardless of getting through this game, or how many games he plays this season, our S & C should be criticised because they weren’t able to get Harley to the point at which he is now since 2017. Melb have achieved it in one extended preseason.

Another point everyone seems to be missing is that he played 15 games the season prior to getting to us, then only 2 games in 4 seasons with us, and now he’s playing a game already for his new club after 4 months of being there. That picture alone is extremely damning of our club.

 

[FreoRicci]

that is true....

Ross Lyon tactics aside. Freo could of made finals last year if it wasnt for those injuries in the 2nd half of the season.


Even though Ross Lyon was sacked and Justin Longmuir is our current coach, I want Longmuir to become a semi decent coach at freo. Having injuries to key player wont help J-Lo's cause

I agree. It was say injuries to a midfielder, toward etc yeah that’s fine.
But Tabs, then the next week Hogan, Lobb with his shoulder then Alex Pearce.. that killed it. Forward structure essentially destroyed in a matter of weeks.

 

[Alfonz]

The Bennell example forms only a small part of the argument why S&C should be cleaned out. Their performance was abysmal before Bennell even got here, and they have continued to make huge stuff ups with a long list of other players. Even if Bennell pings his calf this week, that doesn't change anything for how bad our S&C has been and will continue to be.

 

[Freomaniac]

The Bennell example forms only a small part of the argument why S&C should be cleaned out. Their performance was abysmal before Bennell even got here, and they have continued to make huge stuff ups with a long list of other players. Even if Bennell pings his calf this week, that doesn't change anything for how bad our S&C has been and will continue to be.

Bennell wasnt the 1st freo victim. Anthony Morabito and Michael Apeness both suffered multiple injury runs too.

 

[FreoRicci]

Bennell wasnt the 1st freo victim. Anthony Morabito and Michael Apeness both suffered multiple injury runs too.

Always felt Morabito was pushed too far in terms of bulking up and running. There was mention that he was pushed too hard towards the conclusion of the training session in which he hurried himself. But that’s the player really not the staff. Just unlucky.

Apeness oh the other hand was already injured prior to draft. Would be great if clubs were allowed or prepare medial testing prior to drafting the players they choose. Apeness never really got going, finally getting on the park in the season of his retirement then broke down. Whether if it was the strength and conditioning staff, hard to know.
The soft tissue injuries are the ones in which to judge. McPharlin breaking down towards the end of seasons as well as Spurr, Johnson and Ibbotson.
Calf injuries is the kryptonite of injuries to the club, weirdly.

 

[Bigger]

Bloody hell. McPharlin, Spurr, Ibbo and Johnson all succumbed at the ends of seasons to old man injuries. Because, guess what, they were old men with calves like bags of marbles.

Morabito was actually fined down when he joined us because he was carrying too much weight. The fact he had knee problems just makes him and us very unlucky. Footy is littered with potentially great players whose knees have let them down. Nothing peculiar to us there.

Apeness was poor recruiting because he had a preexisting complaint. He also had a heap of collision injuries because he played stupid-brave. No fault of the medicoes or S&C department.

Everyone tipping buckets of shit on Drs Withers and Boyle needs to just take a little minute to review some facts - including the fact Boyle led the comp in terms of dealing with OP, which is why Hawthorn couldn't get him on the paddock but we could.

I am annoyed as anyone that we couldn't get Bennell on the paddock for extended periods of time, but, then again, nor have Melbourne yet. Like I say, I will dust off the pitchforks when Harley completes a season.

 

[Scham]

Bloody hell. McPharlin, Spurr, Ibbo and Johnson all succumbed at the ends of seasons to old man injuries. Because, guess what, they were old men with calves like bags of marbles.

Morabito was actually fined down when he joined us because he was carrying too much weight. The fact he had knee problems just makes him and us very unlucky. Footy is littered with potentially great players whose knees have let them down. Nothing peculiar to us there.

Apeness was poor recruiting because he had a preexisting complaint. He also had a heap of collision injuries because he played stupid-brave. No fault of the medicoes or S&C department.

Everyone tipping buckets of shit on Drs Withers and Boyle needs to just take a little minute to review some facts - including the fact Boyle led the comp in terms of dealing with OP, which is why Hawthorn couldn't get him on the paddock but we could.

I am annoyed as anyone that we couldn't get Bennell on the paddock for extended periods of time, but, then again, nor have Melbourne yet. Like I say, I will dust off the pitchforks when Harley completes a season.

Everyone tipping buckets of shit on Withers and Boyle need to realise that they answer to Weber.

 

[blue shark]

Only team we can compare our situation with travel, conditions, etc are WC, and they don't have as
many issues with large numbers not available for selection.
Sure there are many factors, it used to be Fremantle oval?
But even draft selections we have picked players with issues, compared to Hawks doesn't make good
Reading.
I would love for the club to poach some of the better teams S&C, because without a good riun with injury
you are not a powerhouse of the comp.
I maybe barking up the wrong tree but I hope Fyfe doesn't have a say on this, because the guy is an athletic
beast, and what works for him maybe detrimental to the overall group.
I remember JLo being offered more coin to join eagles coaching staff, loved the club, but Freo wouldn't
Match.
There is a young forward Baldwin that has an injury, which you can already rule out joining us, and it has been
like this for years because Freo just don't have a good record or come back stories to tell.

 

[eastfreo75]

Only team we can compare our situation with travel, conditions, etc are WC, and they don't have as
many issues with large numbers not available for selection.
Sure there are many factors, it used to be Fremantle oval?
But even draft selections we have picked players with issues, compared to Hawks doesn't make good
Reading.
I would love for the club to poach some of the better teams S&C, because without a good riun with injury
you are not a powerhouse of the comp.
I maybe barking up the wrong tree but I hope Fyfe doesn't have a say on this, because the guy is an athletic
beast, and what works for him maybe detrimental to the overall group.
I remember JLo being offered more coin to join eagles coaching staff, loved the club, but Freo wouldn't
Match.
There is a young forward Baldwin that has an injury, which you can already rule out joining us, and it has been
like this for years because Freo just don't have a good record or come back stories to tell.

The fish rots from the head. Our head guy has been at the club for 12 years. Time for a change.

Sure, it may not work but seriously you need to be proactive.

 

[mayne man]

So now Wilson is a late out with a sore back! Since round one we have had another mini preseason and the only player we have got back from injury is Mundy.
There is about 3 players missing today that apparently would have been ready for about round 3 before corona started

 

[eastfreo75]

So now Wilson is a late out with a sore back! Since round one we have had another mini preseason and the only player we have got back from injury is Mundy.
There is about 3 players missing today that apparently would have been ready for about round 3 before corona started

Wow, the continuous cruel joke.

 

[estibador]

To bring some balance to the discussion, three games in a row now we've clearly been the fitter team running all over the opposition in the last quarter.

People seem to forget the S&C dept are trying to strike a balance between fitness and injury prevention. Have we got the balance right? Who knows. There's a significant amount of individual variation in injury-proneness. But if you're getting zero injuries you'd have to wonder if you're pushing the squad hard enough for the adaptations you need to be successful.

 

[eastfreo75]

To bring some balance to the discussion, three games in a row now we've clearly been the fitter team running all over the opposition in the last quarter.

People seem to forget the S&C dept are trying to strike a balance between fitness and injury prevention. Have we got the balance right? Who knows. There's a significant amount of individual variation in injury-proneness. But if you're getting zero injuries you'd have to wonder if you're pushing the squad hard enough for the adaptations you need to be successful.

Brad Hill commented that Fremantle was harder training than Hawthorn who won 3 flags in a row.

 

[Bicco]

Maybe they are crap and deserve to be fired but gotta lol at the Jo Blows on here that work as school teachers, plumbers or shop assistants during the week with zero medical knowledge or inside contact with the club or players somehow thinking they have any insight into how well these guys are doing their job.

We don't need to be qualified specialists to have an opinion. I'll have a stab in the dark and guess you've never played AFL, yet here you are.
However if a plumber comes to my house, fixes a leaking pipe which then leaks again, I'll say he's done a crap job, if I'm an expert or not.
When a player on our list plays 3 games in 4 years with what I imagine to be pretty much unlimited medical budget (it's claimed through insurance) and that player has an operation our medical team didn't try after being delisted, and then 6 months later is playing AFL. Then yes, expert or not I'm going to say they did a crap job with him. Because they did.
Not sure they should be fired but if I were Bell, I'd definitely be looking around for replacements.

 

[Scham]

Brad Hill commented that Fremantle was harder training than Hawthorn who won 3 flags in a row.

That suggests the balance isn’t right. And he’s had 12 years to play around with it to get it right.

 

[Van_Dyke]

it’s not as if someone’s going to come out and say that the training at his new club is less than his old one, wouldn’t read that much into it

 

[Kram]

We don't need to be qualified specialists to have an opinion. I'll have a stab in the dark and guess you've never played AFL, yet here you are.
However if a plumber comes to my house, fixes a leaking pipe which then leaks again, I'll say he's done a crap job, if I'm an expert or not.
When a player on our list plays 3 games in 4 years with what I imagine to be pretty much unlimited medical budget (it's claimed through insurance) and that player has an operation our medical team didn't try after being delisted, and then 6 months later is playing AFL. Then yes, expert or not I'm going to say they did a crap job with him. Because they did.
Not sure they should be fired but if I were Bell, I'd definitely be looking around for replacements.

lol.. this is not something so incredibly transparent and black or white or as simple as the performance of a basic piece household plumbing.

 

[Freomaniac]

Harley bennell got 14 disposals and play 50% of game time for the demons today

 

[Kram]

That suggests the balance isn’t right. And he’s had 12 years to play around with it to get it right.

Or maybe it was just a throwaway comment reinforcing how hard he was working at his new club.

 

[Scham]

Or maybe it was just a throwaway comment reinforcing how hard he was working at his new club.

Maybe but the 12 years of evidence is obvious and backs the comment up, so I’ll go with it.

 

[Bicco]

lol.. this is not something so incredibly transparent and black or white or as simple as the performance of a basic piece household plumbing.

It's not, you're right.
And we gave our team time and resources. 4 years and trips to Germany and whatever else was needed. It's far more complex than plumbing. What's not different is the result.
They failed to get Harley into a position to play high end football for any sustained period of time.
That's my problem with the medicos. I get it's a hard job. That's why they get paid lots. But they failed to try an operation which up to the time of my writing this, has proven successful in fixing Harley in a little over 6 months.
Now traditionally in this industry if you fail to be successful, you get moved on. But that's not happening so the only safe prediction is that this problem will continue to occur.
I fear greatly for Pearce right now. I hope he's an exception but if you were a betting man what way would you go?

 

[Lach72]

I was watching Collins last week and Neale this week and looking at their body shapes.

Since both left us they've leaned up, and I don't mean losing fat.
They're not as heavy and definitely more mobile...Neale is covering the ground very well and seems to have more penetration by foot...

And I look at old vision of Hill where he was more ropey and think we really need a change of tack

 

[eastfreo75]

I was watching Collins last week and Neale this week and looking at their body shapes.

Since both left us they've leaned up, and I don't mean losing fat.
They're not as heavy and definitely more mobile...Neale is covering the ground very well and seems to have more penetration by foot...

And I look at old vision of Hill where he was more ropey and think we really need a change of tack

Interesting, Mayne lost weight as well.

 

[Fat Nyfe]

Putting Sturt back on the ground after what looked like a serious ankle injury...

 

[Fat Nyfe]

I was watching Collins last week and Neale this week and looking at their body shapes.

Since both left us they've leaned up, and I don't mean losing fat.
They're not as heavy and definitely more mobile...Neale is covering the ground very well and seems to have more penetration by foot...

And I look at old vision of Hill where he was more ropey and think we really need a change of tack

The decision to bulk Hill up to his current size ruined his career.