Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[hawkman]

They're seriously deluded if they think West Coast's list is better than ours.

Can't remember the last time we actually had a good list. Maybe the 80's. It always seems to be the coach that gets all the credit

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Can't remember the last time we actually had a good list. Maybe the 80's. It always seems to be the coach that gets all the credit

Rubbish list where every player is only good because of the other players around them

 

[VandoHawk]

They're seriously deluded if they think West Coast's list is better than ours.

It's Harley Reid and aging Premiership stalwarts. Probably the wonkiest list in the AFL at the moment.

 

[FB19]

Go to 27:19, you won't like what he says about our list but if anyone has any doubts about Sam...

I understand the initial passionate hawks reaction is FU Schoe and whoever the other guy is, but they are allowed to have their opinion and to be honest the closer they are to correct, the better it is for us. I think our list is better than they do but I’m aligned to the meaning of what they were saying. we should celebrate that we have such a well regarded coach and so much upside.
The other thing they aren’t considering is their spine is probably better than ours but it’s made up of a 32 year old McGovern,
29 year old barrass who potentially leaves and Darling who is cooked. which leaves 2 good forwards in waterman and Allen and no KPD. Good luck!

 

[KermitJagger]

Go to 27:19, you won't like what he says about our list but if anyone has any doubts about Sam...

He could have stopped at their spine being better and I'd agree, Waterman, Allen, Barrass, McGovern may be the best spine in the league when they're on. Everywhere else they're old, unbalanced and terrible. Every player at their peak that's a gun side but there isn't a player outside of Reid under the age of 25 that I would have at Hawthorn.

 

[kazzooka]

Rubbish list where every player is only good because of the other players around them

I had a chat to a Carlton supporter who didn't rate any hawthorn players except for Hodge. He was talking about our backline and every one of them was "overrated" "can't defend 1v1" "only look good because they don't play on anyone" Gibson, doesn't play on anyone just comes in 3rd man up, Lake just sits off loose and intercepts, birchal doesn't defend just plays loose man racking up touches, suckling see birchall. How we played every week with 6 or 7 defenders that didn't defend and couldn't win a 1v1 i don't know. Why couldn't carlton forwards kick a goal against us when they had 5 loose fowards?

 

[DogDaySonny]

He could have stopped at their spine being better and I'd agree, Waterman, Allen, Barrass, McGovern may be the best spine in the league when they're on. Everywhere else they're old, unbalanced and terrible. Every player at their peak that's a gun side but there isn't a player outside of Reid under the age of 25 that I would have at Hawthorn.

A “great spine” is overrated. It’s based on a 30-year-old mindset where raw athletic talent takes your team to the top. Footy has been a team sport with team play dominating the game for 15 years now at the AFL level. You want to win individual awards? Be a great athlete on a middling team. You want to win championships? Be a great teammate.

 

[theiaofseed]

Rubbish list where every player is only good because of the other players around them

I still remember the discussion around Gunston and Breust only being decent players due to the players around.

 

[The Chad and I]

Can't remember the last time we actually had a good list. Maybe the 80's. It always seems to be the coach that gets all the credit

Until the players retire, then they say Clarko had it easy with so many champions.

 

[peetoo]

I had a chat to a Carlton supporter who didn't rate any hawthorn players except for Hodge. He was talking about our backline and every one of them was "overrated" "can't defend 1v1" "only look good because they don't play on anyone" Gibson, doesn't play on anyone just comes in 3rd man up, Lake just sits off loose and intercepts, birchal doesn't defend just plays loose man racking up touches, suckling see birchall. How we played every week with 6 or 7 defenders that didn't defend and couldn't win a 1v1 i don't know. Why couldn't carlton forwards kick a goal against us when they had 5 loose fowards?

He probably spent the games complaining how soft carlton had become like at one game when I was sitting among their most feral fans

 

[peetoo]

Until the players retire, then they say Clarko had it easy with so many champions.

Sam Mitchell widely declared top 25 this century once he was at west coast

 

[MrPremiership]

He could have stopped at their spine being better and I'd agree, Waterman, Allen, Barrass, McGovern may be the best spine in the league when they're on. Everywhere else they're old, unbalanced and terrible. Every player at their peak that's a gun side but there isn't a player outside of Reid under the age of 25 that I would have at Hawthorn.

Waterman - 7th year in the system and this is the first year he's kicked more than 18 goals. Mainly due to Allen being injured and him getting more field time, but also because he's their only forward option. You're not going long to Cripps and Darling having a mare.

Allen - great talent. Can't dispute.

Reid - likely to be GOAT.

McGovern - 32 years old. Was elite back in the day, but won't be around for their next premiership.

Barras - 29yo, elite intercept mark, but injury prone. 146 games in 10 years.

Not a half bad spine, probably better than ours now, but not best in the league. In 3 years time they're in strife once McGovern and Barras are gone. Who's coming through?


McCabe/Weddle
Sicily
Day
Dear
Lewis

In 2 years time, that could be insanely good.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I very rarely venture to other boards, but I was told there was a funny argument happening on the Essendon board, so I had a look.

Really don’t want to get into an Essendon vs Hawthorn discussion(so don’t bother going down that path), but I did find this view of our list build from someone who is very clearly not a Hawthorn fan a very interesting one.

Edit: BrunoV said they'd like to be quoted so that they could see the responses here.

I really enjoyed that read, he definitely has a good view on both lists. Maybe slightly pessimistic in his Essendon view. I do think he raises some good points however these can be countered, Re: key defensive stocks. Not mentioning McCabe, Blanck and not mentioning Scaife forward. Whilst once a weak point seems not as much and from now on is less of lack of talent and possession of such, is more a production and proven value.

I do believe he has been harsh on Essendons mindset for this current path, even as a hawthorn fan, I don’t mind watching them and think they have some really nice pieces.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

-High intensity pressure all over the ground.
- spreading from congestion quicker so that there's no need for over possessing the ball, so, therefore, less room for mistakes.
I made mention of this well over a month a go when our game style started to look a bit different. I made mention at the time that it was too early to see if it's a sustainable game plan or just something different for a week or two. Well, it seems that it's a stayer!
- still need to be ruthless going inside fifty though, too many missed opportunities which in a game that really matters, may sting us in the backside.

Posted something earlier a few weeks back in regards to something I wrote about the shape of hawthorns structure around and behind the ball, and how it makes the above much easier to do and much more sustainable. In turn this creates better consistency.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Go to 27:19, you won't like what he says about our list but if anyone has any doubts about Sam...

He is incredibly biased, tried complimenting Hawthorn and would gag on commentary and stumble over nonsense. West Coast have the worst list in the comp and that’s simple, age of a contending side with little young talent and ageing veterans who aren’t getting games elsewhere.

 

[The Chad and I]

Clarko was a brilliant planner and strategist, but I think Mitchell has superior subjective judgement both in-game, player psychology, and eye for talent.

 

[moginie]

Clarko was a brilliant planner and strategist, but I think Mitchell has superior subjective judgement both in-game, player psychology, and eye for talent.

I do too. I'm looking forward to Mitchell's "kill the shark" moment because I have no doubt he's got one or more great motivation ploys in him that will be remembered for a long time.

 

[mustang]

Clarko was a brilliant planner and strategist, but I think Mitchell has superior subjective judgement both in-game, player psychology, and eye for talent.

Do you think Mitchell has the strategy planning in him also, as Clarko changed the way the game is played twice by our tactics, Do you think Mitchell will one day do the same, or will he need people around him that can do this.

 

[The Chad and I]

Do you think Mitchell has the strategy planning in him also, as Clarko changed the way the game is played twice by our tactics, Do you think Mitchell will one day do the same, or will he need people around him that can do this.

Remains to be seen.
The big picture stuff can be learned and practised. The subjective stuff is more about cumulative knowledge and instinct - difficult of you don’t have it.

Thankfully Sam is great at it.
I think he’ll be fine but it will take some time before it shows, and the squad has to be mature enough to implement what he wants.

Clarko didn’t push and perfect the cluster until 2008, four years into his tenure.