Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I always look forward to the Fathers Day video for the players and their Dads.

This one is going to be a beauty.

Watson's father might be more "lippy" and agile than his son.

The "stare down" with Hardwick and his Dad is a pisser.

He always loses to the old man.

The father/son training happened last week.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

It's funny to see supporters of every other club finding ways to be critical of the Hawks because it always boils down to 3 things:

• Too system oriented
• One dimensional
• No top end talent

The first one I don't even understand as a criticism. Having coachable players who can follow a game plan this well seems like the best thing you could have, especially in striving for consistency.

The second one, what is our one dimension? Ever since David King came out and said Hawthorn's stoppage work is our only real asset we've been 1st for scores from turnover, 3rd from kick ins while being 2nd in scores from the defensive half. We've actually been quelled a little bit in terms of score from stoppage and centre bounce, but have recorded 3 of our biggest wins for the season in that period.

The "no top end talent" bit may be what annoys me most because what it really means is no established top end talent, and even then it's still kinda wrong. We've got a young group with some absolute gun young midfielders intentionally playing a game plan that demands an even contribution. You can look at last year and see that we have a midfield unit who can play starring roles, but it doesn't help us win games.

Hope we can continue to push through and win despite being one dimensional and lacking in top talent!

KJ... If you synthesise the 3 comments..

You end up with D+.

 

[TassieGrown]

What a turnaround Sam has guided the team to in 2024. His team has already won 5 more games (could end up being 7) and the percentage is up 26.76%. I am biased but Sam Mitchell should win the coach of the year.

Easy to forget that just 8 months ago he was laying in a hospital bed in New York not in a good way. If this team goes on a tear the rest of this season what a story that would be.


AFL Ladder 2024 Round 22

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AFL Ladder 2023 Round 22

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Our point against is the thing that stands out to me considering we lost the first 5 games.

We are damn hard to score against - that wins finals

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

It's funny to see supporters of every other club finding ways to be critical of the Hawks because it always boils down to 3 things:

• Too system oriented
• One dimensional
• No top end talent

The first one I don't even understand as a criticism. Having coachable players who can follow a game plan this well seems like the best thing you could have, especially in striving for consistency.

The second one, what is our one dimension? Ever since David King came out and said Hawthorn's stoppage work is our only real asset we've been 1st for scores from turnover, 3rd from kick ins while being 2nd in scores from the defensive half. We've actually been quelled a little bit in terms of score from stoppage and centre bounce, but have recorded 3 of our biggest wins for the season in that period.

The "no top end talent" bit may be what annoys me most because what it really means is no established top end talent, and even then it's still kinda wrong. We've got a young group with some absolute gun young midfielders intentionally playing a game plan that demands an even contribution. You can look at last year and see that we have a midfield unit who can play starring roles, but it doesn't help us win games.

Hope we can continue to push through and win despite being one dimensional and lacking in top talent!

just laugh at them mate. Ask them how Hawthorn should do its rebuild.

 

[TheFourPillars]

just laugh at them mate. Ask them how Hawthorn should do its rebuild.

The best one is they will languish as a mediocre team as they have no top end talent.

 

[DogDaySonny]

The best one is they will languish as a mediocre team as they have no top end talent.

This one makes me chuckle because it demonstrates an astounding lack of appreciation for AFL footy as opposed to amateur ball. Every AFL team, even one full of "dead beats", has a list of players who were clear top-end talent in the junior leagues. Even the TAC Cup teams, already composed of the best sixteen and seventeen year old clear top-enders from all the amateur clubs, only gets one or two players selected each year into the AFL.

Now you win those junior league games by getting in three or four top enders who carry your club. But you win AFL with a broad contribution of players all over the field, particularly off-the-ball defensive contributions getting ready for the coming turnovers. It is so rare to see an AFL side collect a small group of top end talent who can carry a game, especially in the last 15 years. It still happens (Dusty, Danger maybe) but far more often it doesn't (witness Carlton yesterday).

Teamwork. That's the only way to be sure you've got a strong, reliable game week after week in the AFL.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

The best one is they will languish as a mediocre team as they have no top end talent.

We apparently had no top end talent outside of Buddy, Cyril, Mitchell and Hodge during our threepeat also according to oppo posters (and AA selectors). The amount of our players who got underrated to stupid levels in those days was insane.

 

[KermitJagger]

We apparently had no top end talent outside of Buddy, Cyril, Mitchell and Hodge during our threepeat also according to oppo posters (and AA selectors). The amount of our players who got underrated to stupid levels in those days was insane.

If everyone's a star, no one's a star!

Our individual players have been victims of consistency and evenness. Sheezel is an absolute star of the game but he stands out so much more when contrasted to the worst players at North, and he needs to physically do more to make up for them.

We haven't got a player on our list averaging more than 24 disposals this season, yet over this patch of form we've been the best ground ball team in the league, the best centre clearance team, and right at the pointy end for I50s, metres gained, handball receives, score involvements, goal assists, intercepts.

In terms of impact per disposal I reckon we've got more players doing more with their ball than pretty much every other team in the league.

 

[TheFourPillars]

If everyone's a star, no one's a star!

Our individual players have been victims of consistency and evenness. Sheezel is an absolute star of the game but he stands out so much more when contrasted to the worst players at North, and he needs to physically do more to make up for them.

We haven't got a player on our list averaging more than 24 disposals this season, yet over this patch of form we've been the best ground ball team in the league, the best centre clearance team, and right at the pointy end for I50s, metres gained, handball receives, score involvements, goal assists, intercepts.

In terms of impact per disposal I reckon we've got more players doing more with their ball than pretty much every other team in the league.

When you play as a true team you share the load. No one player needs to do anything but what they are supposed to. If everyone carries their weight no one stands out absolutely true. This is NIRVANA as far as I am concerned. I wouldn't care if opposition teams saw our stats and said we don't have any stars because they just wouldn't know what a real team looks like. It would also make us almost impossible to beat because we have every player contributing so much

 

[Randy Campbell]

The best one is they will languish as a mediocre team as they have no top end talent.

No one from the Northern Territory?

 

[The Chad and I]

Are we more like Richmond 2017, or Geelong of 2007.

I see similarities to both, and we are starting to resemble bits of our 213-15 era, but not quite there yet with ball and tempo control.

Our pressure is very much like Richmond's, but I think we have a bit more class around the ground (like Geelong '07), without having a single great player like D. Martin or G. Ablett Jr.

 

[TylerDurden]

Are we more like Richmond 2017, or Geelong of 2007.

I see similarities to both, and we are starting to resemble bits of our 213-15 era, but not quite there yet with ball and tempo control.

Our pressure is very much like Richmond's, but I think we have a bit more class around the ground (like Geelong '07), without having a single great player like D. Martin or G. Ablett Jr.

We don't have a match winner like any of those sides. But we are more even. That's the difference.

 

[hardway]

Are we more like Richmond 2017, or Geelong of 2007.

I see similarities to both, and we are starting to resemble bits of our 213-15 era, but not quite there yet with ball and tempo control.

Our pressure is very much like Richmond's, but I think we have a bit more class around the ground (like Geelong '07), without having a single great player like D. Martin or G. Ablett Jr.

We are more a mix of hawks 2007 and 2008 without the yet to be established stars.

 

[QuietB]

We are more a mix of hawks 2007 and 2008 without the yet to be established stars.

It is becoming clearer who those stars are though

 

[tommyk72]

When you play as a true team you share the load. No one player needs to do anything but what they are supposed to. If everyone carries their weight no one stands out absolutely true. This is NIRVANA as far as I am concerned. I wouldn't care if opposition teams saw our stats and said we don't have any stars because they just wouldn't know what a real team looks like. It would also make us almost impossible to beat because we have every player contributing so much

It's also clearly what Sam is stiving for given the way he rotates the mids and keeps all their game time around 70-80%. Not letting us become too dependent on any one "superstar" is literally part of our plan.

 

[TheFourPillars]

It's also clearly what Sam is stiving for given the way he rotates the mids and keeps all their game time around 70-80%. Not letting us become too dependent on any one "superstar" is literally part of our plan.

I think.its also man management for some of our players that are sore

 

[Hawkers Hero]

It's also clearly what Sam is stiving for given the way he rotates the mids and keeps all their game time around 70-80%. Not letting us become too dependent on any one "superstar" is literally part of our plan.

I agree with this but my one worry in a big final is who is that player who will be able to put the team on their back if it starts going wrong.

You don't want to be reliant on anyone and was a hallmark of our threepeat in someways but you see what Heeney did last week or Bont any number of times and wonder if we will be on the receiving end at some point.

Time will tell and as Sam says, we aren't the finished product so that player may emerge (maybe it is Day)

 

[Ned Ryerson]

When you play as a true team you share the load. No one player needs to do anything but what they are supposed to. If everyone carries their weight no one stands out absolutely true. This is NIRVANA as far as I am concerned. I wouldn't care if opposition teams saw our stats and said we don't have any stars because they just wouldn't know what a real team looks like. It would also make us almost impossible to beat because we have every player contributing so much

Absolutely this. When you look at the clubs who have the most Brownlow medallists the leaders are St Kilda, Footscray and Sydney. Now compare that with premierships won.

I’m far more happy that over our history we have had a spread of talent and teams that would inevitably pry votes away from one another. Our players who have retired with multiple premiership medallions in certain aren’t lamenting their lack of Brownlow medals.

 

[The Chad and I]

I agree with this but my one worry in a big final is who is that player who will be able to put the team on their back if it starts going wrong.

You don't want to be reliant on anyone and was a hallmark of our threepeat in someways but you see what Heeney did last week or Bont any number of times and wonder if we will be on the receiving end at some point.

Time will tell and as Sam says, we aren't the finished product so that player may emerge (maybe it is Day)

That player is Day,
it’s Weddle,
it’s Newcombe,
it’s Dear,
it’s Watson,
it’s Moore,
it’s Sicily,

We have match winners.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

That player is Day,
it’s Weddle,
it’s Newcombe,
it’s Dear,
it’s Watson,
it’s Moore,
it’s Sicily,

We have match winners.

Dylan Moore is absolutely made for finals footy. He is what Septembers are all about.

 

[KermitJagger]

As the Hawks don't currently have anyone at the absolute top in terms of player ratings, I thought it would be interesting to break performance down to quartiles over the past 5 weeks - to confirm that theory of why we've been so good.

Over the past 5 weeks there are two interesting case studies, Hawthorn and Essendon.

	Hawthorn	League Rank	Essendon	League Rank
Top Quartile	9	4th	10	=2nd
2nd Quartile	10	=1st	7	=10th
3rd Quartile	4	17th	2	18th
Bottom Quartile	3	18th	12	1st

This speaks to two things - Hawthorn's consistency in having the same group of players out there as a strength, but also the even distribution of performers with most of our selected players in the top 50% of performers across that period. If you control for only players who have played all 5 games we don't have a single player represented in the bottom quartile of players, and only two total in the bottom 50% - the equal fewest of any club, along with a similarly even outfit in GWS.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

As the Hawks don't currently have anyone at the absolute top in terms of player ratings, I thought it would be interesting to break performance down to quartiles over the past 5 weeks - to confirm that theory of why we've been so good.

Over the past 5 weeks there are two interesting case studies, Hawthorn and Essendon.

	Hawthorn	League Rank	Essendon	League Rank
Top Quartile	9	4th	10	=2nd
2nd Quartile	10	=1st	7	=10th
3rd Quartile	4	17th	2	18th
Bottom Quartile	3	18th	12	1st

This speaks to two things - Hawthorn's consistency in having the same group of players out there as a strength, but also the even distribution of performers with most of our selected players in the top 50% of performers across that period. If you control for only players who have played all 5 games we don't have a single player represented in the bottom quartile of players, and only two total in the bottom 50% - the equal fewest of any club, along with a similarly even outfit in GWS.

When you think about it even our whipping boys are having good seasons. Morrison has done his job when needed. Chol had whipping boy status elsewhere and is having a career year. Frost has gone to a different level than he ever has this year. Croc started the year with a bit of criticism but has been a breakout star. Nash still had some detractors or people who thought he could be moved on for other players - but he is having a great year and got a 5 year deal. Jars has had his critics but is hitting his post-ACL form and probably having his best year. Looking at our present form I dare say a lot of clubs would even like taking a few of our bottom 6 players.

 

[KermitJagger]

When you think about it even our whipping boys are having good seasons. Morrison has done his job when needed. Chol had whipping boy status elsewhere and is having a career year. Frost has gone to a different level than he ever has this year. Croc started the year with a bit of criticism but has been a breakout star. Nash still had some detractors or people who thought he could be moved on for other players - but he is having a great year and got a 5 year deal. Jars has had his critics but is hitting his post-ACL form and probably having his best year. Looking at our present form I dare say a lot of clubs would even like taking a few of our bottom 6 players.

I reckon there would have been plenty of Carlton people watching Hazza Mozza on the weekend thinking he'd be best 22, even without their injuries. I'd have him ahead of David Cuningham every day of the week.

So much of this comes down to our entire coaching unit, not just Sam (though definitely a lot from him), and their "bring your weapons" style of coaching. Knowing your role is great and all, but constantly being treated like a replaceable soldier and getting pigeon-holed as a specific type of role player does stop careers before they even start.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

The lid on Sam Mitchell's Hawks is well and truly off. Now even non-human supporters are getting involved in the action with a membership.






He looks a bit like Josh Weddle actually

 

[Roddy]

Worth a look.