Scott Pendlebury - Standing in the game?

[Aristotle Pickett]

So who, and how many?

Look it up

 

[Fadge]

He's not ahead of Martin, everyone knows that .

I've proven conclusively, in another thread, that he is.

If not, where have I gone wrong in rating:
Pendlebury has 2 of the best 3 full seasons;
3 of the best 5;
7 of the best 12;
9 of the best 15;
12 of the best 20 full completed seasons when comparing with your boy Martin.

So if you want base your assertion that Martin has been better than Pendlebury based on the fact Martin's single best season was better than Pendlebury's single best season, or if you're basing it on the opinion Martin has the best, 4th best, 6th best, 7th best and 8th best season of the two players, and completely disregarding their other 20 or so seasons between them, your assessment is flawed, and incorrect.

Because that is the only way anyone could conclude what you believe 'everyone knows'...

 

[Fadge]

Look it up

Is that really how you engage in the 'real world'?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Is that really how you engage in the 'real world'?

You're making statements and not backing it up with evidence then asking other people to look it up for you.

 

[Pistol Night]

You're making statements and not backing it up with evidence then asking other people to look it up for you.

Wood peckers dont have lips. Prove me wrong

 

[Fadge]

You're making statements and not backing it up with evidence then asking other people to look it up for you.

My 'statement' was -
In the AA squad in 10 different seasons.


My 'follow-up question' was -
Is that another record?

You then made a statement that it wasn't, and it's you not backing up your statement with evidence...

 

[GastevsBeard]

the GOAT of consistency & dependability

Someone in this thread made a comment death by a thousand cuts - I think that is about right, as he always does something constructive with the pill, and as an oppo supporter find myself groaning when he gets it

 

[freddy mercury]

Just a very good stat merchant, doesn't hurt you, clean and silky.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Yep, I agree this is the clear top 4 now, in that order.

Then a bunch of a half dozen, in any order, between 5 and 10.

Players drafted from 2000 onwards who every coach in the league would draft ahead of Pendles:

• Buddy
• Judd
• GAJ
• N Riewoldt
• Dangerfield
• Martin
• Selwood
• Hodge
• Bont
• S Mitchell
• Rance
• Hawkins
• Roughead
• Fyfe
• Josh P Kennedy
• Petraca
• Oliver
• Edit: add Toby Greene

There’s a number of others who arguably would be drafted ahead of Pendles, including:

• Josh Kennedy
• J Riewoldt
• S Johnson
• Gawn

And that’s just off the top of my head. The idea that Pendles is top 4 this century is delusional. And that’s taking nothing away from Pendles, who is obviously a champion of the game. In case it's not clear, I'm not arguing that all of the above players had better careers than Pendles, but that coaches - focused on winning games and winning finals - would draft them ahead of Pendlebury.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Unfortunately there weren't many spots left in the starting midfield of the AA team when GAJ and Judd were in their prime...

The 3 best mids in any given season are generally named ruck-rover, rover and centre in the AA team.

Here's a list of players who have been named to one of those 3 spots since 2000, and their number of selections to those spots.

Player	No of AA selections named to ruck, ruck-rover or centre
Ratten	2
Koutafides	1
Buckley	2
Black	3
McLeod	1
Francou	1
Cousins	3
Voss	1
Goodes	1
Ricciuto	1
West	3
Ball	1
Judd	4
Bartel	1
Kerr	1
GAJ	8
Hayes	1
Corey	1
Hodge	1
Swan	2
Mitchell	1
Watson	1
S Thompson	1
Selwood	3
Kennedy	2
Priddis	1
Fyfe	2
Dangerfield	3
Martin	2
T Mitchell	2
Cripps	2
Neale	2
Boak	1
Petracca	1
Wines	1
McCrae	1
Oliver	1

So there's 37 blokes who have been named to start on the ball in the AA team at least once since 2000. Pendles isn't one of them.

Don't get me wrong. He's a great player. It's just that your over-rating of him is so delusional that it makes the Richmond DustyGOAT crowd look like beacons of rationality.

 

[Fadge]

The 3 best mids in any given season are generally named ruck-rover, rover and centre in the AA team.

Here's a list of players who have been named to one of those 3 spots since 2000, and their number of selections to those spots.

Player	No of AA selections named to ruck, ruck-rover or centre
Ratten	2
Koutafides	1
Buckley	2
Black	3
McLeod	1
Francou	1
Cousins	3
Voss	1
Goodes	1
Ricciuto	1
West	3
Ball	1
Judd	4
Bartel	1
Kerr	1
GAJ	8
Hayes	1
Corey	1
Hodge	1
Swan	2
Mitchell	1
Watson	1
S Thompson	1
Selwood	3
Kennedy	2
Priddis	1
Fyfe	2
Dangerfield	3
Martin	2
T Mitchell	2
Cripps	2
Neale	2
Boak	1
Petracca	1
Wines	1
McCrae	1
Oliver	1

So there's 37 blokes who have been named to start on the ball in the AA team at least once since 2000. Pendles isn't one of them.

Don't get me wrong. He's a great player. It's just that your over-rating of him is so delusional that it makes the Richmond DustyGOAT crowd look like beacons of rationality.

So you're suggesting the likes of Macrae, Wines, T. Mitchell, Priddis, S. Thompson, etc. are ahead of Pendles because they've been named on the ball at least once in their careers?

Wowee.

 

[RichLeMonde]

So you're suggesting the likes of Macrae, Wines, T. Mitchell, Priddis, S. Thompson, etc. are ahead of Pendles because they've been named on the ball at least once in their careers?

Wowee.

No, I'm not suggesting that. You're struggling Fadge.

I'm suggesting that Pendles has never been in the top 3 mids in any single season. Your excuse for that was that there were no spots on the ball because of GAJ and Judd. I was simply pointing out that a hell of a lot of blokes have had good enough seasons to claim a spot as a top 3 mid in any single season, and Pendles never has. He's ultra consistent, but he's just not damaging enough to be in that very top echelon.

 

[Fadge]

No, I'm not suggesting that. You're struggling Fadge.

I'm suggesting that Pendles has never been in the top 3 mids in any single season. Your excuse for that was that there were no spots on the ball because of GAJ and Judd. I was simply pointing out that a hell of a lot of blokes have had good enough seasons to claim a spot as a top 3 mid in any single season, and Pendles never has. He's ultra consistent, but he's just not damaging enough to be in that very top echelon.

So if you're not suggesting it, why list them?

I'm still waiting on someone, anyone, to tell me who has been selected in the All-Australian squad on more than 10 separate occasions, because I'm sure it's happened plenty of times...

 

[RichLeMonde]

So if you're not suggesting it, why list them?

I'm still waiting on someone, anyone, to tell me who has been selected in the All-Australian squad on more than 10 separate occasions, because I'm sure it's happened plenty of times...

I've listed them because they directly disprove your claim that Pendles only didn't get named on the ball in the AA team because of Judd and GAJ. I've proved that 35 blokes managed the feat, and Pendles isn't one of them. So your claim doesn't hold up at all. Please explain to me why he's never been named on the ball in the AA team if he's regularly been one of the 3 best mids in the game?

He has been ultra consistent in being one of the 10-20th best players in the comp (hence the 10 AA noms), but not being one of the top 5 players in the comp (he has one season with that claim). That's why every coach would love to have him, but there's plenty of players they'd take ahead of him at the start of their careers.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Pendlebury Stats

2nd most disposals in the history of the game (most likely will be number one on Friday night)
1st most handballs in the history of the game
2nd most tackles in the history of the game.
6th most Inside 50s in the history of the game
6th most Clearances in the history of the game
5th most contested possession in the history of the game
2nd most uncontested possession in the history of the game
3rd most goal assists in the history of the game

He is quickly closing in on being number one in many of these categories. For example, only needs 25 tackles to go past Selwood to have the most tackles in history.

Love the bloke, but these are all signs of great longevity and good consistency, but not a whole lot else.

The fact he will take 30+ more games to beat Selwood's total tackles is not really something to brag about imo.

 

[PieLebo87]

Players drafted from 2000 onwards who every coach in the league would draft ahead of Pendles:

• Buddy
• Judd
• GAJ
• N Riewoldt
• Dangerfield
• Martin
• Selwood
• Hodge
• Bont
• S Mitchell
• Rance
• Hawkins
• Roughead
• Fyfe
• Josh P Kennedy
• Petraca
• Oliver
• Edit: add Toby Greene

There’s a number of others who arguably would be drafted ahead of Pendles, including:

• Josh Kennedy
• J Riewoldt
• S Johnson
• Gawn

And that’s just off the top of my head. The idea that Pendles is top 4 this century is delusional. And that’s taking nothing away from Pendles, who is obviously a champion of the game. In case it's not clear, I'm not arguing that all of the above players had better careers than Pendles, but that coaches - focused on winning games and winning finals - would draft them ahead of Pendlebury.

Where’d you collect this data from?

Who did Fly tell you he’d draft?

 

[RichLeMonde]

Where’d you collect this data from?

Who did Fly tell you he’d draft?

I'm basing my list on value for winning games and flags, rather than stats. It's my opinion of what coaches value, as they try and win flags, bearing in mind that there's a lot more mids available than gun KPPs

Please tell me in your opinion which of the players in the top list Pendles would be drafted ahead of, by most coaches.

 

[PieLebo87]

I'm basing my list on value for winning games and flags, rather than stats. It's my opinion of what coaches value, as they try and win flags, bearing in mind that there's a lot more mids available than gun KPPs

Please tell me in your opinion which of the players in the top list Pendles would be drafted ahead of, by most coaches.

Well to be honest, I’d be working in the AFL myself if I truly knew how most coaches think, or what they wanted.

You keep doing you though

 

[RichLeMonde]

I think your non-answer suggests deep down you know the truth.

You keep doing you though

Just so you're aware, this makes you sound like a teenage girl.

 

[Pistol Night]

Can we just agree hes a Collingwood great

 

[RichLeMonde]

Can we just agree hes a Collingwood great

We can, but it's more fun to argue with Fadge

 

[adammania9]

And that’s just off the top of my head. The idea that Pendles is top 4 this century is delusional. And that’s taking nothing away from Pendles, who is obviously a champion of the game. In case it's not clear, I'm not arguing that all of the above players had better careers than Pendles, but that coaches - focused on winning games and winning finals - would draft them ahead of Pendlebury.

You may have half a case if Pendlebury wasn't a key component in a premiership where he won the Norm Smith Medal

 

[RichLeMonde]

You may have half a case if Pendlebury wasn't a key component in a premiership where he won the Norm Smith Medal

So what? That's not enough to make you a top 4 player of the century. I didn't even include Jimmy Bartel in my list, who won a Brownlow, Normsmith and 3 flags.

Being a key component and BOG in a flag doesn't automatically make you more valuable than an absolute match winner in a shittier team, like a Toby Greene. That reminds me: add Jeremy Cameron to list of players coaches would definitely draft ahead of Pendles.

 

[adammania9]

So what? That's not enough to make you a top 4 player of the century. I didn't even include Jimmy Bartel in my list, who won a Brownlow, Normsmith and 3 flags.

Being a key component and BOG in a flag doesn't automatically make you more valuable than an absolute match winner in a shittier team, like a Toby Greene. That reminds me: add Jeremy Cameron to list of players coaches would definitely draft ahead of Pendles.

You definitely seem to think it is, as evidenced here

but that coaches - focused on winning games and winning finals - would draft them ahead of Pendlebury.

So do you rate premierships and stars in premierships or don't you?

 

[RichLeMonde]

You definitely seem to think it is, as evidenced here

So do you rate premierships and stars in premierships or don't you?

I thought I was clear, but apparently not.

Coaches most highly value players who are the most likely to help them win flags. For eg, a Michael Voss had a game style that was perfect for finals football, even if he wasn't the most consistent performer in the leage in the H&A. James Hird similarly had stats that look quite unremarkable, but he could take over and seize those moments that win finals. That's why he's widely regarded as one of the best players of all time.

I would put Toby Greene in that category of player (not saying he's as good as Voss or Hird), in that he seizes the moment in big games when very few others can. A Hodge or McLeod is similarly highly valued and rare, even if they didn't rack up endless AAs for H&A consistency.

Those type of players win premierships. I'm not talking about how many actual premierships a player has won.