Selected team vs Adelaide. (Warning: Take a deep breath)

[sante]

Tivendale had to be rewarded for his form at Coburg as others have said. This is why those that are bagging the selection prove they have no idea.

Good to see McGuane back unless he is a late withdrawal. Is there a match-up for him though?

Riewoldt was okay against Sydney but he is in the team as a FF and a FF needs to kick goals, he isn't. Polak will be our FF this week up against Rutten though.

 

[froars]

You give games to kids who don't deserve them and you'll have a team full of Daffys.
Who wants that? Not I.

 

[Shezza]

Hey lads, long time reader, haven't made many posts.

WHy the hell was Morton dropped in the first place? I am afraid I may have missed why????????

Cheers Boys.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

You give games to kids who don't deserve them and you'll have a team full of Daffys.
Who wants that? Not I.

How many games did Deledio play in the twos in his first year?

Just check your facts and let me know.

 

[tony_montana]

You give games to kids who don't deserve them and you'll have a team full of Daffys.
Who wants that? Not I.

or you may just get players who comeon quickly bc they gain confidence that they are rated by the brains trust perfect example Roughead. He was in no way deserving of a spot in the starting 22 in his first 2 years, he averaged something like 5 or 6 possessions, but they persevered and then one day he along with a few of his mates clicked and at 21 is a very prominent part of their side. At Richmond he wouldnt be half the player. You set a goal and focus on it, in their case getting their young guys up to par ASAP and look at them now.

Brisbane did the same and have turned it around quickly blowing us away, while we're still trying to create a new side

 

[froars]

or you may just get players who comeon quickly bc they gain confidence that they are rated by the brains trust perfect example Roughead. He was in no way deserving of a spot in the starting 22 in his first 2 years, he averaged something like 5 or 6 possessions, but they persevered and then one day he along with a few of his mates clicked and at 21 is a very prominent part of their side. At Richmond he wouldnt be half the player. You set a goal and focus on it, in their case getting their young guys up to par ASAP and look at them now.

Brisbane did the same and have turned it around quickly blowing us away, while we're still trying to create a new side

You don't think giving Riewoldt 8 games so far this year is giving him a go? I think they've given him every chance. They brought Cotchin in after a couple of nice things he did - not match winning stuff, but they're giving him a go. Edwards, White. I saw Connors a couple of weeks ago and thought he was ordinary. Good to see he's got himself up into being being considered. Go through the team again and have a look at the players under 25. I think you'll find they're playing the youth

 

[tony_montana]

You don't think giving Riewoldt 8 games so far this year is giving him a go? I think they've given him every chance. They brought Cotchin in after a couple of nice things he did - not match winning stuff, but they're giving him a go. Edwards, White. I saw Connors a couple of weeks ago and thought he was ordinary. Good to see he's got himself up into being being considered. Go through the team again and have a look at the players under 25. I think you'll find they're playing the youth

and how many are over 30? Too many for where we are at.


when the hawks made the decision on youth they were never going to give holland etc another run and they stuck to that, they kept the kids in there for 20-22 games per season and guess what? nearly all of them have taken the next step together after 40-50 games.

While we play & promote players like tivendale hyde ahead of young competent players like Polo, Connors, we will never be with the likes of hawthorn, brisbane and will continually get left behind.

Reiwoldt hasnt been bad, not as bad as roughead was in plenty of games but they kept him there. Reiwoldt is already too good for the VFL, waste of time for him going back there. Stick it out

Why was McGuane dropped? he was one of our best defenders against geelong and can hold his head up high for his performances.

Tivendale is 29, Polo is 21, FFS Are we going to play finals this year? are we going to be top 4 next year? NO & NO By the time we might tivs will be 31. FFS logic??

 

[froars]

How many games did Deledio play in the twos in his first year?

Just check your facts and let me know.

He earned those games. We're talking about kids who are developing and getting games without deserving them. What you're talking about, I haven't got a clue

 

[froars]

and how many are over 30? Too many for where we are at.


when the hawks made the decision on youth they were never going to give holland etc another run and they stuck to that, they kept the kids in there for 20-22 games per season and guess what? nearly all of them have taken the next step together after 40-50 games.

While we play & promote players like tivendale hyde ahead of young competent players like Polo, Connors, we will never be with the likes of hawthorn, brisbane and will continually get left behind.

Reiwoldt hasnt been bad, not as bad as roughead was in plenty of games but they kept him there. Reiwoldt is already too good for the VFL, waste of time for him going back there. Stick it out

Why was McGuane dropped? he was one of our best defenders against geelong and can hold his head up high for his performances.

Tivendale is 29, Polo is 21, FFS Are we going to play finals this year? are we going to be top 4 next year? NO & NO By the time we might tivs will be 31. FFS logic??

Say we do it your way, play all the kids, they get belted every week, what will you be calling for then? Wallace's head and sacking the kids.
Don't tell me people wouldn't. I've been around here far too long to know otherwise. You'd have one dispirited club. You also have to sort out who you're going to get rid of at the end of the year. Remember Rodan. Playing good footy now, but many wanted to get rid of him. You have to give everyone on the list a chance to say I've earned my spot. And if the kids don't make the grade one week, they can still develop at Coburg. Wallace is not going to keep them down there forever if they deserve a spot in the seniors. And he's not a Frawley when kids came in and just sat on the bench, a la Pettifer.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

He earned those games. We're talking about kids who are developing and getting games without deserving them. What you're talking about, I haven't got a clue

My recollection is that he didn't play any games in the twos. So how did he earn his spot in the team?

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Say we do it your way, play all the kids, they get belted every week, what will you be calling for then? Wallace's head and sacking the kids.
Don't tell me people wouldn't. I've been around here far too long to know otherwise. You'd have one dispirited club. You also have to sort out who you're going to get rid of at the end of the year. Remember Rodan. Playing good footy now, but many wanted to get rid of him. You have to give everyone on the list a chance to say I've earned my spot. And if the kids don't make the grade one week, they can still develop at Coburg. Wallace is not going to keep them down there forever if they deserve a spot in the seniors. And he's not a Frawley when kids came in and just sat on the bench, a la Pettifer.

I certainly wouldn't be calling for his head. And I know many tiger supporters who feel the same way as I do. In fact, they sit around me every week at the footy. All I hear is "play the kids", "we don't care if they get smashed as long as they play the kids".

You must be on another planet if you don't hear the same things. People do realize that the suffering then is for a good cause - getting games under the kids belts. The kids will bite back at some stage. The older guys are wearing dentures now and all they can give is a gummy bite!

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

If players are good enough they're old enough...what do they really learn playing in the magoos with mainly hacks ,has beens & never where's? A whole bunch of bad habits , that's what. Throw 'em in at the deep end I say. Clarkson does it. Malthouse does it. But no , not old Emperor Nero...too busy tuning his fiddle.

 

[Tivers]

In the case of a last minute change. Which emergency would be more likely to come in - Morton or Reiwoldt ?
(Got one player shy on my dreamteam, so need to make two of Morton, Hawkins or McKinley emergency's, in the hope one comes in to cover my gap).
Am thinking Jack more likely, so may as well go with Hawkins and McKinley. But then again in the mud at the G, changes more likely than at the dome tonight.........?

 

[froars]

You must be on another planet if you don't hear the same things. People do realize that the suffering then is for a good cause - getting games under the kids belts. The kids will bite back at some stage. The older guys are wearing dentures now and all they can give is a gummy bite!

And you've been here five minutes, it's obvious from that statement. Trying to tell me - the proponent of advocating youth for the last five years on here. Rather amusing.

But to the point, I'll just say one player: Richard Tambling. If you can't remember the amount of threads saying he's a dud, all because Terry played from the outset in the ones. Enough bagging that he suffered psychological problems with the constant comparisons to Buddy Franklin. So I'm afraid people really don't realise at all. There's a lot of weak minded Tiger supporters out there, and when it comes to the crunch, they would care if we were losing every week.

What planet have you been on FFS.

You certainly havne't been on Big Footy lol

 

[froars]

My recollection is that he didn't play any games in the twos. So how did he earn his spot in the team?

He played well in the pre-season where the youngers are generally tried out

Not every player is a Deledio if you hadn't noticed.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

And you've been here five minutes, it's obvious from that statement. Trying to tell me - the proponent of advocating youth for the last five years on here. Rather amusing.

But to the point, I'll just say one player: Richard Tambling. If you can't remember the amount of threads saying he's a dud, all because Terry played from the outset in the ones. Enough bagging that he suffered psychological problems with the constant comparisons to Buddy Franklin. So I'm afraid people really don't realise at all. There's a lot of weak minded Tiger supporters out there, and when it comes to the crunch, they would care if we were losing every week.

What planet have you been on FFS.

You certainly havne't been on Big Footy lol

Tambling's problems are , he's been overcoached and people judge him on his draft pick and against a full forward almost literally twice his size....we were never going to pick Franklin with Richo in the side....why would we at that stage have picked another full forward with the same glaring weakness of innaccuracy close to goal? People need to get over it. Franklin would most likely still be up and down like a yo-yo between the seniors and Coburg if he was with us...and probably as result been even more of a dick off field and maybe even delisted by now just for that...if anything Roughhead would've been a better pick-up for us....but not a better one than Deledio.

 

[telsor]

And you've been here five minutes, it's obvious from that statement. Trying to tell me - the proponent of advocating youth for the last five years on here. Rather amusing.

But to the point, I'll just say one player: Richard Tambling. If you can't remember the amount of threads saying he's a dud, all because Terry played from the outset in the ones. Enough bagging that he suffered psychological problems with the constant comparisons to Buddy Franklin. So I'm afraid people really don't realise at all. There's a lot of weak minded Tiger supporters out there, and when it comes to the crunch, they would care if we were losing every week.

What planet have you been on FFS.

You certainly havne't been on Big Footy lol

Thanks for the common sense and logic Froars...all too rare around here.

It's easy to second guess when things are bad and say how it *should* be done, when you wont be held accountable.

Last year we played a lot of kids due to injury to our experienced players, and I somehow doubt those advocating kids 'regardless' now were being hugely supportive of it.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

And you've been here five minutes, it's obvious from that statement. Trying to tell me - the proponent of advocating youth for the last five years on here. Rather amusing.

But to the point, I'll just say one player: Richard Tambling. If you can't remember the amount of threads saying he's a dud, all because Terry played from the outset in the ones. Enough bagging that he suffered psychological problems with the constant comparisons to Buddy Franklin. So I'm afraid people really don't realise at all. There's a lot of weak minded Tiger supporters out there, and when it comes to the crunch, they would care if we were losing every week.

What planet have you been on FFS.

You certainly havne't been on Big Footy lol

Who cares about big footy? I've been going to games since 1965. How long have you?


Tambling is a case in point. I think he has improved markedly this year. Why? Because TW has played him from day 1 in the seniors. I doubt if he would have improved playing at Coburg all this time.

And here is the most important point of all. Leaving our kids play at Coburg for too long does NOT develop them. They get used to the slower pace of the game and eventually cannot step up when they may have been able to earlier on in their development.

I'll say it again. Guys like Tivendale have been tried now for 10 years. If they haven't produced by now, how the hell are they going to change and suddenly become guns. Putting him in the team does nothing when you have Mortons, Casserlys Connors etc who could show considerable improvement if persisted with like Tambling. Show faith in the kids and they more often than not will repay you. You should not wait for them to be BOG at Coburg before they are selected.

You can waste time bragging about how long you have been on BF. Big fu----g deal! It means nothing! Get a life if you think that gives you bragging rights!

 

[froars]

Thanks for the common sense and logic Froars...all too rare around here.

It's easy to second guess when things are bad and say how it *should* be done, when you wont be held accountable.

Last year we played a lot of kids due to injury to our experienced players, and I somehow doubt those advocating kids 'regardless' now were being hugely supportive of it.

There's also a duty of care issue.
You're sending 17 and 18 year old kids out there with 17 and 18 year old bodies against men.
Sometimes they just need a rest from how full-on footy is.
It won't hurt Riewoldt and if he plays well he'll be back next week refreshed.

 

[_RT_]

um no...

Look at Hawthorn and brisbane. they played youth even in bad form over and again and are now reaping the rewards while we continue to say earn a game. RUBBISH just get valuable game time into them, we arent a finals team in 08, stop wasting time!

The quicker a young bloke gets to 40-50 games the quicker he settles into the pace of senior agfl footy.

end discussion

Which Hawk players were played time and again while out of form in the early years? By my count there were 3 Franklin, Lewis and Roughead. All their kids picked since then with the exception of Ellis spend more time in the VFL than our kids do.

Here is a comparison between us and the Hawks:
2004 Picks:
Richmond - Deledio (72), Tambling(63), Meyer(17 injured more often than not), Pattison(44), Polo(26), McGuane(21) & Thursfield(32 missed a season with knee reco)
Hawks - Roughead(68), Franklin (66), Lewis(69), Murphy(18), Little(1), Taylor(58) & Young(54)
Looking at that if not for injuries to players like Meyer and Will the numbers would be very even between these 2 groups in terms of games played.

2005 Picks:
Richmond - JON(7), Hughes(12), Casserly(0), White(26) Graham(2) & Howat(21)
Hawks - Ellis(23), Dowler(3), Birchall(50), Bailey(4 missed a season with knee reco), Muston(0 another knee reco victim this year), Tuck(5), McGlynn(28). Have not included Guerra & Gilham as both had already been drafted previously. Again though not too much difference with the exception of Birchall.

2006 Picks:
Richmond - Riewoldt(15), Edwards(23), Connors(4), Collins(0) & King(29)
Hawks - Thorp(1) Renouf(0), J.Morton(2), Kennedy(2), Moss(1).
So the Hawks just keep putting games into their kids you say. Think this group proves that to be wrong.

The fact of the matter is Wallace plays kids who deserve games through good form and not just because their birthdate was post 1988. So does Clarkson at Hawthorn.

Our problem stems from the fact that players like Jackson, Schulz, Pettifer, Moore, Tuck, Raines, Hyde, Newman & Coughlan, for one reason or another have not developed as well as players like Hodge, Mitchell, Bateman, Sewell, Osborne, Boyle, Ladson Brown, Williams & Campbell have for the Hawks. Only now are some of our players starting to realise their potential and are playing some decent footy but they are starting from a long way back and are trying to make up ground on players who are a mile ahead and are still developing as quick as our player are.

Our time will come but it wont be this year and more likely than not wont be in 2009 either but when it does come it will last for a very long time and we will all be glad that the club went the right way about it this time instead of chasing a quick fix to keep us happy for a little while.

 

[YellowandBlackBlood]

The difference with the Hawks and Richmond is obvious.

The hawks will play kids if they do not have a good senior option to go to. We do not have good senior options but still select them.

So enough of these smart facts.

Hodge, Mitchell, Croad, and Crawford cannot be compared to Tivendale, Hyde, Tuck and Pettifer. But we still play those guys in place of good junior talent. They don't have to drop their seniors because they are good!

So I agree with AT. And I don't care how long he or I have been on BF!

 

[Bulldog89]

Well I will be there on at the game anyway ....... We need to change.
Tivendale ....... been running around a second level comp and playing ok footy. WOOOOOOOOOOW

I know, why not trade Polo , Connors and Jackson to the Gold Coast .... & Keep Pettifer ... Tivendale and Tuck for our next crack at the 8 .

Is this a Terry call or a Miller call .

Ok we might win and I said might win ..........wheres the future ?

and dont say Tivendale an older bigger body ...... never seen him get a hard ball yet.

agree with those comments.let quit baulking at re- building.

 

[_RT_]

The difference with the Hawks and Richmond is obvious.

The hawks will play kids if they do not have a good senior option to go to. We do not have good senior options but still select them.

So enough of these smart facts.

Hodge, Mitchell, Croad, and Crawford cannot be compared to Tivendale, Hyde, Tuck and Pettifer. But we still play those guys in place of good junior talent. They don't have to drop their seniors because they are good!

So I agree with AT. And I don't care how long he or I have been on BF!

Hodge Mitchell Croad and Crawford can be compared to our players for the simple fact that our players should be delivering the same for us as those guys are for the Hawks but as I said due to one reason or another they don't.

My post was in response to the claim that the Hawks play their kids no matter what and the figures I posted for the first 3 drafts show that their is little difference between what we have done and what the Hawks have done with their kids.

What seems to be happening here is most of you are overlooking the simple fact that our kids either are not showing the form at lower level that forces Wallace and the selection panel to pick them ahead of players like Bowden, Pettifer, Hyde & Tivendale.

Let me ask you, should we play Riewoldt, Edwards, Hughes, Connors, JON, Graham and co each week simply becasuse they are under 21? OR should these players be expected to force their way into the side through good form and then have to continue to play good footy to keep their spots?

 

[astro_toby]

My recollection is that he didn't play any games in the twos. So how did he earn his spot in the team?

on the training track and in the NAB cup and also because we had a terribly unskillful squad - with several delisted - and he was a hughly skilled number one pick - you knob head

cant compare deledio to polo, collin and co - any ____ing fool should see that

 

[froars]

[/B]

Who cares about big footy? I've been going to games since 1965. How long have you?


Tambling is a case in point. I think he has improved markedly this year. Why? Because TW has played him from day 1 in the seniors. I doubt if he would have improved playing at Coburg all this time.

And here is the most important point of all. Leaving our kids play at Coburg for too long does NOT develop them. They get used to the slower pace of the game and eventually cannot step up when they may have been able to earlier on in their development.

I'll say it again. Guys like Tivendale have been tried now for 10 years. If they haven't produced by now, how the hell are they going to change and suddenly become guns. Putting him in the team does nothing when you have Mortons, Casserlys Connors etc who could show considerable improvement if persisted with like Tambling. Show faith in the kids and they more often than not will repay you. You should not wait for them to be BOG at Coburg before they are selected.

You can waste time bragging about how long you have been on BF. Big fu----g deal! It means nothing! Get a life if you think that gives you bragging rights!

Real quality post lol.
Been going since '65 myself, so stop your own bragging.
We're talking about shoving kids in the deep end versus developing them. You can still play the kids as much as you want, something I want as well, but they need to be in reasonable form, not just played because they're young. Michael Tuck played a year in the seconds and still managed 400+ games.