Mega Thread Senior Coach Discussion - Neeld v the alternatives

[stretcharmstrong]

Well we just fundamentally disagree then.

I am arguing that the not tackling, running, chasing, etc. had NOTHING to do with the coach and his game plan. It is the players and their mindset. Honestly, what coach in their right mind would implement a gameplan that precluded or was prejudiced against those things.

 

[Klyntonius]

I think it's a big month for Neeld. A loss to the Giants won't be an instant bullet but a big loss would perhaps see some significant internal pressure from the club. The positives of the first half this week need to be replicated in greater amounts over the coming weeks. If we suffer four more heavy defeats then I think he's in trouble.

 

[CM Sean]

I think if we LOSE to GWS, he's in deep shit. lol

 

[Ando727]

I think if we LOSE to GWS, he's in deep shit. lol

Fair assumption. I suspect Neeld won't be trying to make any statements with team selection this week. It will be the team that he thinks can save his career for a bit longer.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Well we just fundamentally disagree then.

I am arguing that the not tackling, running, chasing, etc. had NOTHING to do with the coach and his game plan. It is the players and their mindset. Honestly, what coach in their right mind would implement a gameplan that precluded or was prejudiced against those things.

Let me ask you something...

Who's responsible for the players mindset?

 

[Black Dynamite]

The truth is the players are a lot more responsible for their mindset than anyone else.
The coach can influence that but ultimately this is something the players do themselves

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

The truth is the players are a lot more responsible for their mindset than anyone else.
The coach can influence that but ultimately this is something the players do themselves

Mate, this is Neeld's list - the players he wants, the ones he thinks have the right mindset for AFL footy.

A good coach can have a massive impact on a group - just look at Port under Hinkley.

If you're down on confidence as a player, it doesn't necessarily come back by just 'working hard' or any other such cliche.

 

[Black Dynamite]

Mate, this is Neeld's list - the players he wants, the ones he thinks have the right mindset for AFL footy.

A good coach can have a massive impact on a group - just look at Port under Hinkley.

If you're down on confidence as a player, it doesn't necessarily come back by just 'working hard' or any other such cliche.

Thats just it though, it's not Neelds list.Ask anyone involved in the industry, the current list is a result of decisions made 4-5 years ago, these are the ones Neeld got to fill gaps left in the list by previous indiscretions. Best available at short notice.
Understand completely your point just unsure if we should be pinning all our woes on the coach as our problems obviously run much, much deeper that that.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Thats just it though, it's not Neelds list.Ask anyone involved in the industry, the current list is a result of decisions made 4-5 years ago, these are the ones Neeld got to fill gaps left in the list by previous indiscretions. Best available at short notice.
Understand completely your point just unsure if we should be pinning all our woes on the coach as our problems obviously run much, much deeper that that.

This, obviously, is not Neelds 'ideal' list.

However, this IS his list - and I'm not sure our problems run 'much' deeper then that.

The players he wanted to keep, he kept - the players he didn't want he gave away for nothing.

No coaches get to come into the job with the list they wanted (excluding maybe Chris Scott and Buckley).

I'm all for giving him more of a chance, I do think he has some good ideas - however, one thing that seems pretty obvious is that he can't get consistency of effort out of his players.

A good coach will, just look at Port under Primus - they had just the same problems as us, soft, inconsistent, lack of work ethic.

They've turned a corner in one pre-season, with a no massive changes to the core of their list.

 

[syl]

I don't think he will go if we lose to GWS, nor should he.

We have to stick fat with the plan, by years end, make a decision. THERE ARE NO COACHES WORTH TAKING AT THE MOMENT ANYWAY

 

[Tulip]

I don't think he will go if we lose to GWS, nor should he.

We have to stick fat with the plan, by years end, make a decision. THERE ARE NO COACHES WORTH TAKING AT THE MOMENT ANYWAY

The question will, in the end, be whether Craig or Viney could do a better job.

Agree with TPM in the sense that it's not really a coach's job to have the players mentally solid, but a great coach does it anyway.

 

[syl]

The question will, in the end, be whether Craig or Viney could do a better job.

Agree with TPM in the sense that it's not really a coach's job to have the players mentally solid, but a great coach does it anyway.

The answer is no.

 

[Tulip]

The answer is no.

Craig did pretty well with Adelaide, but then look at how Sanderson did last season when the players didn't have such a hard-nose insisting on his way or out.

Part of our problem right now is having two hard personalities as the main coaches. You need a Bailey to your Neeld, not a Craig.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I think that until we can secure a big name, proven coach - Neeld should get at least until the end of the season.

Neeld should probably get until the end of the season without threat to his job anyway.

If we start next season poorly, then he goes - hopefully he takes a more reasonable approach to the trade period (please don't trade our first rounder for a KPF).

 

[Black Dynamite]

I think that until we can secure a big name, proven coach - Neeld should get at least until the end of the season.

Neeld should probably get until the end of the season without threat to his job anyway.

If we start next season poorly, then he goes - hopefully he takes a more reasonable approach to the trade period (please don't trade our first rounder for a KPF).

That's all I've been saying.

 

[Black Dynamite]

Craig did pretty well with Adelaide, but then look at how Sanderson did last season when the players didn't have such a hard-nose insisting on his way or out.

Part of our problem right now is having two hard personalities as the main coaches. You need a Bailey to your Neeld, not a Craig.

I wonder if the club recognised how soft the playing group had become under Bailey and over compensated the other way.

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

I wonder if the club recognised how soft the playing group had become under Bailey and over compensated the other way.

Can you overcompensate the other way though? Surely any player who has a sook and can't find the intensity after being called out on being soft in the floggings that we've been having, should be dropped until they can show that they've learnt the standard required. Yet, we see the same guys getting picked and turning up their toes every week.

I know Neeld talks tough, and I think he has a great vision of how tough he wants this team to be, but reading between the lines I don't think he's doing enough to realise that vision. Players letting the side down with poor workrates need to be singled out and made an example of. There doesn't seem to be any bad consequences for the guys in this category.

I want us to stick with Neeld, but he has to learn, and fast, how to get consistent effort out of his playing list. If that means dropping a dozen of your first 22 and making them train in tutus, then he has to try it.

I'm not sure what Neil Craig, with all his experience, is doing to help Neeld out in this.

 

[Dory_77]

Can you overcompensate the other way though? Surely any player who has a sook and can't find the intensity after being called out on being soft in the floggings that we've been having, should be dropped until they can show that they've learnt the standard required. Yet, we see the same guys getting picked and turning up their toes every week.

I know Neeld talks tough, and I think he has a great vision of how tough he wants this team to be, but reading between the lines I don't think he's doing enough to realise that vision. Players letting the side down with poor workrates need to be singled out and made an example of. There doesn't seem to be any bad consequences for the guys in this category.

I want us to stick with Neeld, but he has to learn, and fast, how to get consistent effort out of his playing list. If that means dropping a dozen of your first 22 and making them train in tutus, then he has to try it.

I'm not sure what Neil Craig, with all his experience, is doing to help Neeld out in this.

I think it's the old carrot and stick dilemma and we haven't got the balance right the past few years. Bailey was considered too soft with the players, while Neeld seems to be very tough on them. Neeld needs to find a balance between disciplining the players for **** ups and trying to reward good performances. Simply blasting the players and humiliating them every time they make a mistake won't work because there are so many guys making mistakes and after a while they'll completely lose faith in Neeld if he's nothing but an arse. He needs to try and be gentle every now and then to help the players learn. He's there to be a coach; not a drill sergeant.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Let me ask you something...

Who's responsible for the players mindset?

Argh! Yes, the players AND the coach are responsible for the game day attitude of the playing group. Granted.

That wasn't the point though. The point us that tackling, pressure, shepherding etc etc has nothing to do with game plan. It has a little bit to do with the coach as PART of his role is to motivate and inspire. But it is mostly up to the players to WANT to do those things.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I think that until we can secure a big name, proven coach - Neeld should get at least until the end of the season.

Exactly. And there'd be bugger-all chance of us getting a serious candidate to come in mid-season, of course.

Aside from the fact Craig's clearly said he won't be taking another head coaching job.

He said he would not coach again at any club.

"No, my days are done," Craig told Melbourne's SEN radio on Sunday.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8638462

So we'd be bringing in another untried AFL coach as caretaker, and as a result, the chances being substantially higher that we'd then end up starting again at the end of the year with yet another untried AFL coach. Christ knows rolling the dice this way has seen stupendous results for us over the last 6 years, doing it again would be even more painful.

PS- I saw a "should Melbourne sack Neeld if we lose to GWS" thread on the MB a little while ago btw. Posted there saying I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a melon-baller.

 

[Bluelegs]

Hard to argue that he's lost the players. Was being called in for the song after the game, the players sang it again for him and the other coaches behind closed doors.

 

[AM]

I think that until we can secure a big name, proven coach - Neeld should get at least until the end of the season.

Neeld should probably get until the end of the season without threat to his job anyway.

If we start next season poorly, then he goes - hopefully he takes a more reasonable approach to the trade period (please don't trade our first rounder for a KPF).

Pardon my interruption. I see your point about giving Neeld the security of tenure for this year. However, wouldn't you be reducing your options in terms of available coaches if you left replacing him until during next year rather than the end of this year if his performance was still a concern? Not to mention the disruption that would cause to the club.

 

[Dory_77]

Pardon my interruption. I see your point about giving Neeld the security of tenure for this year. However, wouldn't you be reducing your options in terms of available coaches if you left replacing him until during next year rather than the end of this year if his performance was still a concern? Not to mention the disruption that would cause to the club.

I can't see any other clubs being in the hunt for a new coach. Maybe Brisbane if their season keeps going as it is but most others would be safe. The club can conduct a review at the end of the year, see what we've got, see what else is out there barring an absolute calamity in the meantime (a fairly strong possibility I admit).

 

[bing181]

Hard to argue that he's lost the players. Was being called in for the song after the game, the players sang it again for him and the other coaches behind closed doors.

What are you talking about?

 

[Bartram_Class]

If there's one tradition that I'm glad we haven't given up in our collective wanking over EPL/NFL, it's giving new coaches time (min. 3 year deal) to turn their club around.

Neeld deserves similar.